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[Rotward]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

Rotward wrote...

If cerberus controlled the citadel they'd be able to move around in council space unhindered. Udina's just a sucker.

I guess what bothers me about that explanation is that while that's theoretically true, I have to think that practically it wouldn't hold up. The Citadel Council seems to derive its authority from the consent of the various species and their political leadership. Unless Cerberus imposed such an elaborate communications lockdown that nobody else even realized that there had *been* a coup - which would seem nearly impossible - most of the galaxy would probably just stop taking orders from the Citadel and organize their own governments-in-exile.

Maybe Cerberus could seize control of some ships docked at the Citadel and use them to travel incognito for a while. But I can't imagine Primarch Victus suddenly deciding to open turian space to Cerberus just because TIM is sitting in the turian councilor's former chair, for example. Non-human governments and civilians would either rebel or just try to work around them, and even most humans probably see Cerberus as traitors at worst and unreliable kooks at best.

Unhindered as in the council couldn't stop them anymore. Without the citadel or council, what's holding the various species together? Cerberus could run their operations without council intervention. Only the alliance, of the individual species, devoted resources to stopping cerberus while the reaperes were attacking.

Plus, without the citadel, communications would be more difficult. It was the last safe haven, and reapers attack communications actively.

Edit: Think about how many resources Cerberus puts forth to hide their operations. They have businesses for fronts, bribe and threaten specific officials, assasinate admirals just to keep themselves hidden. They'd save a lot of money if they didn't have anyone to hide from. 

Modifié par Rotward, 12 décembre 2013 - 09:39 .

[maaaad365]

Michotic wrote...

The Citadel would close its arms, I'm sure. They did that the first time, and Sovereign still got through.

They weren't expecting an attack from the Reapers in ME1.

But as many said it before me, why do we bother with a script full of plot holes.

[Rotward]

^ we're in the story section of the forums. What else would you be here for?

[maaaad365]

Sorry, my point is that whatever explanation we find for the plot , there will always be some plot-holes.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Michotic wrote...

I had always thought that TIM wanted to capture the Council to indoctrinate them. If TIM controlled the Council, he'd have a lot of power. As to whether or not this plan would actually work, I don't know (still seems kind of a stretch). Udina went along with it because he thought he'd have more power

Doesn't Leng kill the salarian councilor if neither Thane nor Kirrahe are available to stop him? It seems unlikely that he'd do that if the plan was indoctrination, unless he thought it was the only way to keep Shepard from taking the councilor into protective custody of some sort.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Rotward wrote...
Unhindered as in the council couldn't stop them anymore. Without the citadel or council, what's holding the various species together? Cerberus could run their operations without council intervention. Only the alliance, of the individual species, devoted resources to stopping cerberus while the reaperes were attacking.

Plus, without the citadel, communications would be more difficult. It was the last safe haven, and reapers attack communications actively.

Edit: Think about how many resources Cerberus puts forth to hide their operations. They have businesses for fronts, bribe and threaten specific officials, assasinate admirals just to keep themselves hidden. They'd save a lot of money if they didn't have anyone to hide from. 

That's a good point. Is it established that most FTL communication is routed through the Citadel? What I'm mostly wondering is why, if Cerberus succeeded in taking over the Citadel, the Council races wouldn't just form their own council-in-exile and coordinate from somewhere else.

[DuskWanderer]

My guess on the matter is that Udina wanted what was presented in the game: The ability to unilaterally move the Citadel fleets to destroy the Reapers at Earth and liberate the planet. TIM, being indoctrinated, wanted to sabotage the non-human fleets so humanity would be the apex power, and the Reapers would be able to move unhindered.

[N7Gold]

Shepard and the others are too stupid to realize that by assasinating the asari, turian and salarian councilor, Cerberus seriously hurts Shepard's efforts in uniting the galaxy against the Reapers and DESTROY them, something that Illusive Man does not want to happen. Illusive Man told Shepard back on Mars that he did not want the Reapers destroyed, and knowing Illusive Man will do what he "thinks" is right for mankind without having second thoughts, will fight against Shepard.

The councilors give Shepard intel on what to do to unite their respective species with the Alliance. Without them, Shepard would be flying blind.

Modifié par N7Gold, 14 décembre 2013 - 12:48 .

[Display Name Owner]

Anything that messes with the Citadel affects the species' efforts to work together. Whether or not Udina succeeds in controlling the fleets afterwards, the other species lose power. If Udina sends the fleets to Earth and they lose, that's just less competition when TIM's own plan succeeds (which it never would have done), if by some chance they do take Earth, fine whatever. The only thing TIM had to worry about was the Crucible succeeding, so if Udina throws all resources into some other plan it's all to the good.

TIM is the only person in the galaxy with any sense of strategy, you see.

[gaeawolf]

I always felt that the coup attempt was a mix of TIM's fall to madness and a show of force that Cerberus was a powerful group.

[Linkenski]

Basically they hint Udina was just indoctrinated, and like in the other cases it's simply used as a cheap plot-device where they abuse a pre-established character from previous installments just for the sake of action/drama or in the Coup case, foreshadowing that the Reapers want to use the Citadel for "something" which is of course to start processing humans on Earth.

Apparently the Catalyst can't control the physical abilities of the Citadel or he was simply slumbering before the Crucible docked. Who knows? Definitely not Bioware, but speaking of this I can't believe nobody's asked them stuff like this on live-panels because I'd love to see them just come up with some awful justification that barely makes sense to cover up that they have no clue.

[The Twilight God]

There was no reason. It was just a plot device to pit Shepard against The Cereal Bandit, play out Thane's story and bring the VS back into the fold (or not).

The Citadel doesn't control the other race's militaries or governments. The Citadel fleet is a separate force that, although made up from the Council races, works for the Council and not their respective race governments. Controlling the Citadel would be pointless (as far as anyone knew at the time) to the greater scheme of things. TIM didn't know about the Citadel-Crucible connection at the time and the reapers clearly could have just magically taken it at any time so an indoctrinated motive seems unlikely.

If it was me, Cerberus would have been trying to take the Citadel to power up its relay and look for answers on the other side. I mean... am I the only one who would have checked out what was going on at dark space base? The Reapers shouldn't be there so beside some husks it should be empty. I assume there is another Citadel like structure on the other side.

Making Cerberus go full indoctro-baddies was a bad idea. They ceased to be genuinely villainous and became fancy husks. They should have both started out wanting to destroy. Then down the line it should become known that the Crucible is modable and can be used in various ways according to what scientific minds are working with it. This allows for different choices/allies you end up with effecting what options you have for how it deals with the Reapers and actually effect the ending. Knowing that control is, at the least, feasible ON OUR TERMS ahead of time Cerberus could then turn on you while maintaining the "for humanity" objective. Also, it would have made the final choices (minus Kid) actually viable and not just indoctrinated Saren green, indoctrinated TIM blue and what you came to do red.