211 réponses à ce sujet

[Daemul]

Deathsaurer wrote...

It isn't clear but one can certainly get the impression that they are the way the Zha'til keep getting brought up in comparison to the Geth.

I mean how do we reconcile this with what he says on the dreadnought? We've got two contradictory stories here...

Thanks for posting that, I had forgotten about that conversation. It brings up another problem though, if the Zha'til are the synthetics the Protheans fought in the Metacon war before the Reapers arrived, then what the hell was Javik talking about on the Geth Dreadnought? Because from Javiks first conversation it seems as if the Metacon War had nothing to do with the Reapers, they hadn't arrived yet.

The only way it would make sense would be if the Zha'til took over the Zha's bodies themselves , then went to war with the Protheans and when the Reapers arrived they were subjugated and used as Reaper forces, well, they were going to be used, the Protheans put an end to that. Some writer, somewhere, may have f**ked up. 

[Deathsaurer]

Javik's timeline is FUBAR and I'm not going to try to make sense of it until someone clarifies this nonsense in a comic or something.

[Reorte]

Deathsaurer wrote...

Reorte wrote...

None of the conflicts we did have were leading to the destruction of all organic life.

As has been stated numerous times there's no real obvious difference between wars between organics and wars between organics and synthetics. I don't accept there's something so significantly different between them that makes really destructive wars inevitable, or at least more inevitable than we get anyway between ourselves. For me to accept that explanation you've first got to convince me that it's plausible. With reality pointing out examples goes a long way to do that but that doesn't work so well in fiction because it's easy to simply invent any example you might like. I also need convincing that the examples are plausible. There's been nothing offered to convince me that that's the case.

So the Reapers didn't exist then?

What's that got to do with anything?

Generalising from the Reapers is about as sensible as generalising from, say, the yahg. One synthetic construct that's partially organic anyway (which we'd stop using "organic" and "synthetic", when it's entirely possible to have a completely synthetic organic). It's always possible that one of anything will go off the rails and try to do something ridiculous.

You're also running straight into what I was saying don't do - invent examples and use those to justify your stance. I could just as easily write a story to make some now thankfully largely rejected point, like something sexist or racist, and fill the story with examples that prove that all races other than mine are inferior beings who should be thankful to get dragged out of their mud huts to serve me. Only that wouldn't prove anything other than that I was a jerk.

[Deathsaurer]

Reorte wrote...

It's always possible that one of anything will go off the rails and try to do something ridiculous.

Well that is kinda the point. If a synthetic race goes off the rails like that it's near impossible to stop.

[His Name was HYR!!]

Reorte wrote...

What they intended is irrelevent because we've got what they did instead of what they intended. That's why you've got to really carefully think these things through when you're creating them.

Or, what they "did" still reflects their intent, but not all viewers take away an accurate interpretation.

That's entirely possible, too. 


That of course requires rejecting the juvenille notion that every interpretation is a valid one. It's like playing a competitive game of any sort and declaring that no one wins or loses, even if one side clearly outperforms the other. It's a lie.

[His Name was HYR!!]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@wizardryforever
We know of three synthetic/organic wars in the MEU (Zha'til, Morning War, Heretic invasion). Starbrat instigated two of them.

The Catalyst himself is an example.

You can deny that it will ever happen again, but you can't deny it's a possibility. It was reached, by him, knowingly or not.

And don't forget how EDI helps you all but destroy Cerberus. Why do you think she was mandatory for that mission --Cerberus firewalls? Pfft. Tali hacked through Collector firewalls back in the ME2 suicide mission. Garrus and Kaidan are competant techs, too. It's only a problem only EDI can fix because the writers needed to make her fit the incoming end.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 15 décembre 2013 - 04:03 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

KaiserShep wrote...

Basically, it's brainwashing. One group does not suddenly understand another so deeply that the potential for conflict is eradicated without some kind of forced alteration of their minds.

Everyone is interconnected and is able to gain understanding so as to avoid conflict. If it works between synthetic and organic, it must work between everyone. Why? Because by definition of the way our kid defined synthesis, there is no more synthetic or organic. They are one in the same. Therefore what was once organic has perfect understanding of each other as well. There is now peace. There is no more struggle. And since plants are affected you will now understand them before you have your salad. Prey will know their place and will no longer flee away from their predators because they will understand they must be eaten by them. The weak and sick will walk forward to the predator because it understands it is the one that must be selected. And so what once was a ballet of chaos now proceeds in a very orderly fashion because of understanding even down to the microbial level. 

There is now peace. 

Tell me another story about The Shepard. 

It's getting late, but okay, one more story.

[KaiserShep]

If everyone's connected, how the hell were any details lost in time?

I guess the stargeezer and little boy can gather around a reaper and have a nice little cycle seance.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 15 décembre 2013 - 05:04 .

[DeinonSlayer]

KaiserShep wrote...

If everyone's connected, how the hell were any details lost in time?

I guess the stargeezer and little boy can gather around a reaper and have a nice little cycle seance.

Great. So through sharing memories they can experience being melted down into genetic soup a couple trillion times over without stepping into a dissembly chamber themselves?

[Ruadh]

Synthesis is basically a giant retard beam.

If you're actually stupid enough to pick it . . . retard dream.

If you're offended by the word retard?

I mean it in the sense idiot. Which is how it's used these days.

So if you're offended by that word, I declare you a double dip****.

[KaiserShep]

DeinonSlayer wrote...
Great. So through sharing memories they
can experience being melted down into genetic soup a couple trillion
times over without stepping into a dissembly chamber themselves?

Stargazer: I can hear Lilith calling out to me. She tried to scream on Horizon, but couldn't. The whole time, trapped in a pod. Waiting. A soldier watched from behind glass. The screaming. Thousands, millions more. Children. I can hear the voices in many languages, all crying out in agony. I can feel the weight of all their minds like a deluge of death pouring into my soul! 

Boy: Tell me another story.

Stargazer: Shush child grappa needs his medicine *chugs Wild Varren liquor*

Modifié par KaiserShep, 15 décembre 2013 - 05:16 .

[Obadiah]

...because everyone isn't connected (although its probably possible).

[Daemul]

KaiserShep wrote...

If everyone's connected, how the hell were any details lost in time?

I guess the stargeezer and little boy can gather around a reaper and have a nice little cycle seance.

I have always assumed that the Stargazer scenes purpose was to be some sort of breaking of the fourth wall moment which the devs put in to account for the different playthroughs which players may have where the events would be different from the last play through, unless your one of those people who makes the same decisions every time, which is why the details were lost in time and why the kid asks for "another story about the Shepard".

It's basically the devs saying do another play through of the series. Another story.

Modifié par Daemul, 15 décembre 2013 - 10:28 .

[Bfler]

Synthesis is pure nonsense. A Reaper and a human as friends is the same, as if Dr. Mengele and a tortured prisoner of a concentration camp were suddenly best buddies.
Through Synthesis the whole story arc with the development of EDI's personality becomes pointless.
And there is no need for such a solution with peace on Rannoch or the Quarians as organic victors, because the statement of the child about syntetics, which exterminate organics, becomes invalid. It's even the opposite with victorious Quarians.

The only real outcomes for me are destroy and maybe control, with the use of Reapers as tools for repairs and their self destruction ordered by the Shepard VI afterwards. But since Shepard VI is the same as the child, control is very risky.

Modifié par Bfler, 15 décembre 2013 - 12:02 .

[Reorte]

Deathsaurer wrote...

Reorte wrote...

It's always possible that one of anything will go off the rails and try to do something ridiculous.

Well that is kinda the point. If a synthetic race goes off the rails like that it's near impossible to stop.

Is it? Is that just another example of the writers inventing examples based on no evidence in order to make their point? Even within the game some synthetic races that went off the rails were stopped (or would've been if the Reapers hadn't intervened). If a sufficiently high-tech organic race went off the rails it would be near impossible to stop. Other species on Earth can do bugger all about whatever humans want.

[KaiserShep]

I'd see the odds of another reaper-level threat of synthetics happening even within the next thousand years as extremely unlikely, given the circumstances that even brought about their creation in the first place.

If a sufficiently high-tech organic race went off the rails it would be near impossible to stop.

The rachni are probably the perfect example. Within a single human generation, they could populate multiple worlds with colonies of millions of soldiers and workers. According to Javik, it took glassing 200 worlds to stop them.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 15 décembre 2013 - 02:06 .

[Reorte]

StreetMagic wrote...

Synthesis is the genetic equivalent of those ME1 Polonium rounds I'd put in Wrex's shotgun. Nasty stuff.

Never used them. Eventually heard someone say that it stops krogan from regenerating health, which would've been useful if I'd known it at the time, but they didn't seem much good for anything else. I just stuck with shredder or tungsten.

[KaiserShep]

Incendiary ammo for life. Every sonomonb*tch in space is being set on fire.

[jtav]

I'm kind of nervous about answering this

Synthesis is restoration. What do we see concretely from Synthesis? Maskless quarians and a krogan renaissance. It gives people the life they ought to have had. As it happens, I'm disabled so I identify with the quarians and krogan here. It gives them more freedom by reducing poverty and illness and doing it far more quickly. Synthesis improves quality of life right now by eliminating things that take away choices. The idea of self-determination looks rather hollow when you're at the bottom of the heap.

[Iakus]

jtav wrote...

I'm kind of nervous about answering this

Synthesis is restoration. What do we see concretely from Synthesis? Maskless quarians and a krogan renaissance. It gives people the life they ought to have had. As it happens, I'm disabled so I identify with the quarians and krogan here. It gives them more freedom by reducing poverty and illness and doing it far more quickly. Synthesis improves quality of life right now by eliminating things that take away choices. The idea of self-determination looks rather hollow when you're at the bottom of the heap.

The krogan renaissance happens in any ending  where Wrex and Eve are alive.

Quarians will eventually no longer need their suits in any case.  Alone, it will likely take them years or decades.  In endings where peace is made with the geth, it is much, much faster since they are helping to jump-start the quarian immune system.

Synthesis is not needed for either of these outcomes.  All that is needed is for the Reapers to go away and let the galaxy do its thing.

[Fixers0]

Crap writing.

[durasteel]

iakus wrote...

Synthesis is not needed for either of these outcomes.  All that is needed is for the Reapers to go away and let the galaxy do its thing.

The Babylon 5 ending, which would have been a million times better than the artistic integrity ending.

Modifié par durasteel, 15 décembre 2013 - 06:20 .