211 réponses à ce sujet

[Barquiel]

iakus wrote...

jtav wrote...

I'm kind of nervous about answering this

Synthesis is restoration. What do we see concretely from Synthesis? Maskless quarians and a krogan renaissance. It gives people the life they ought to have had. As it happens, I'm disabled so I identify with the quarians and krogan here. It gives them more freedom by reducing poverty and illness and doing it far more quickly. Synthesis improves quality of life right now by eliminating things that take away choices. The idea of self-determination looks rather hollow when you're at the bottom of the heap.

The krogan renaissance happens in any ending  where Wrex and Eve are alive.

Quarians will eventually no longer need their suits in any case.  Alone, it will likely take them years or decades.  In endings where peace is made with the geth, it is much, much faster since they are helping to jump-start the quarian immune system.

Synthesis is not needed for either of these outcomes.  All that is needed is for the Reapers to go away and let the galaxy do its thing.

I'd actually feel more comfortable with synthesis if "synthesis Wreav" would also start a war. There is a 100% certainty that Wreav will attack the Salarians and Turians and eventually everyone else...just like the destroy and control epilogue slides show us.

Modifié par Barquiel, 15 décembre 2013 - 06:09 .

[rekn2]

StreetMagic wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

iakus wrote...

jtav wrote...

I'm kind of nervous about answering this

Synthesis is restoration. What do we see concretely from Synthesis? Maskless quarians and a krogan renaissance. It gives people the life they ought to have had. As it happens, I'm disabled so I identify with the quarians and krogan here. It gives them more freedom by reducing poverty and illness and doing it far more quickly. Synthesis improves quality of life right now by eliminating things that take away choices. The idea of self-determination looks rather hollow when you're at the bottom of the heap.

The krogan renaissance happens in any ending  where Wrex and Eve are alive.

Quarians will eventually no longer need their suits in any case.  Alone, it will likely take them years or decades.  In endings where peace is made with the geth, it is much, much faster since they are helping to jump-start the quarian immune system.

Synthesis is not needed for either of these outcomes.  All that is needed is for the Reapers to go away and let the galaxy do its thing.

I'd actually feel more comfortable with synthesis if "synthesis Wreav" would also start a war. There is a 100% certainty that Wreav will attack the Salarians and Turians and eventually everyone else...just like the destroy and control epilogue slides show us.

I think that kind of misses the point of what Synthesis is really about though. It's the ending for people who throw their hands in the air, want all loose ends tied (not just the AI issue), so they can walk away to play a different game. The end. No more "speculations".

The real "meat" of the entire trilogy though revolves around thinking about the effects of Destroying or Controlling others. This is the kind of environment where someone like Wreav is more fun to think about.

that assumtion is from a view point of priviledge. i was against synthesis at first because i didnt know what it was, after doing all the endings i changed my mind. theres no way a fresh player wouldve known that synth was a "good" ending. when i heard brat talk abaout it for the 1st time i LOLed. its just what saren wanted...

ends up being sunshine and rainbows.

Modifié par rekn2, 15 décembre 2013 - 11:09 .

[N7Gold]

I see Synthesis as peace delivered to you on a silver platter, an illusion of true freedom. Peace isn't gained that easily, it crops up after someone resolves a conflict between two factions with neither side winning or losing, but learning how to set aside their differences and/or prejudices.

I admit Synthesis is a beautiful, seeing all synthetics and organics at peace together, but it does not feel right, it feels like we've swapped true freedom to live in the matrix, a world of "peace" that is not real or peaceful, it feels like the Synthesis DNA is a means to keep everyone under control, like having a control chip in your brain. The question is, who wants to control all organic and synthetic life?

Synthesis is not a natural evolutionary phenomenon, it is a means for someone or something to control everyone, creating an illusion of peace while in truth using them as slaves.  Also, as I recall my Shepard telling Adams and Chakwas, "genes don't make organics and synthetics alive, it's their awareness, curiosity and capacity to evolve,", and at the beginning of the Synthesis Extended Cut ending, EDI's first words are: "I am alive." I smell deception in the Synthesis solution.

Modifié par N7Gold, 16 décembre 2013 - 02:23 .

[rekn2]

yeah but my point is that the peace you mention isnt even hinted at at all until AFTER you choose it...

[jamesp81]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

It's why I think people who make decisions based on an objective morality ought to be removed....

Removed from what, exactly

Modifié par jamesp81, 16 décembre 2013 - 05:04 .

[jamesp81]

N7Gold wrote...

I see Synthesis as peace delivered to you on a silver platter, an illusion of true freedom. Peace isn't gained that easily, it crops up after someone resolves a conflict between two factions with neither side winning or losing, but learning how to set aside their differences and/or prejudices.

I admit Synthesis is a beautiful, seeing all synthetics and organics at peace together, but it does not feel right, it feels like we've swapped true freedom to live in the matrix, a world of "peace" that is not real or peaceful, it feels like the Synthesis DNA is a means to keep everyone under control, like having a control chip in your brain. The question is, who wants to control all organic and synthetic life?

Synthesis is not a natural evolutionary phenomenon, it is a means for someone or something to control everyone, creating an illusion of peace while in truth using them as slaves.  Also, as I recall my Shepard telling Adams and Chakwas, "genes don't make organics and synthetics alive, it's their awareness, curiosity and capacity to evolve,", and at the beginning of the Synthesis Extended Cut ending, EDI's first words are: "I am alive." I smell deception in the Synthesis solution.

Well said.  It as as much about control as the Control ending itself.  Do not be fooled.  There are no free lunches.  If someone comes along offering something, even if it's "free" you're still paying for it, somehow, some way.

[jamesp81]

durasteel wrote...

iakus wrote...

Synthesis is not needed for either of these outcomes.  All that is needed is for the Reapers to go away and let the galaxy do its thing.

The Babylon 5 ending, which would have been a million times better than the artistic integrity ending.

I hadn't really thought about it, but you're right.  It is the B5 ending, and I thought it was a pretty good one overall.

[Iakus]

jamesp81 wrote...

Well said.  It as as much about control as the Control ending itself.  Do not be fooled.  There are no free lunches.  If someone comes along offering something, even if it's "free" you're still paying for it, somehow, some way.

You.  Or someone else is paying it for you...

[DeinonSlayer]

tickle267 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

It's why I think people who make decisions based on an objective morality ought to be removed....

so people in power should be ones without 'morality'?

I guess we're going back to the days when X goes to war with Y because someone got insulted at a dinner party...

EDiT: Never mind, found the original post - that's precisely who he's talking about keeping out of power. Still, removal from life/society is bad.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 16 décembre 2013 - 05:42 .

[His Name was HYR!!]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

It's why I think people who make decisions based on an objective morality ought to be removed....

Removed from what, exactly

Power, society, life.

Society/life is a bit too far.

I agree they should not hold any power, though, but stick to a job/lifestyle that doesn't affect other people.

Someone's gotta shelf the books at the library, after all.

[dreamgazer]

durasteel wrote...

iakus wrote...

Synthesis is not needed for either of these outcomes.  All that is needed is for the Reapers to go away and let the galaxy do its thing.

The Babylon 5 ending, which would have been a million times better than the artistic integrity ending.

Actually, yelling at the eons-old, immensely overpowered Reapers to get out of the galaxy and them actually complying would have been far worse than, as you say, the "artistic integrity" ending. 

[KaiserShep]

Shepard should have taken notes from Moe Szyslak and just run at the catalyst with a board with a nail sticking out of it. The catalyst and the reapers would retreat into dark space, but warn that one day, other organics will build bigger boards, and put in bigger nails, and it will be our undoing.

[DeinonSlayer]

KaiserShep wrote...

Shepard should have taken notes from Moe Szyslak and just run at the catalyst with a board with a nail sticking out of it. The catalyst and the reapers would retreat into dark space, but warn that one day, other organics will build bigger boards, and put in bigger nails, and it will be our undoing.

Ha ha ha ha.

Ha ha ha!

Ha ha HA HA HA HA!

Ha ha ha.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

It's why I think people who make decisions based on an objective morality ought to be removed....

Removed from what, exactly

Power, society, life.

Society/life is a bit too far.

I agree they should not hold any power, though, but stick to a job/lifestyle that doesn't affect other people.

Someone's gotta shelf the books at the library, after all.

Fair enough.

[ruggly]

KaiserShep wrote...

Shepard should have taken notes from Moe Szyslak and just run at the catalyst with a board with a nail sticking out of it. The catalyst and the reapers would retreat into dark space, but warn that one day, other organics will build bigger boards, and put in bigger nails, and it will be our undoing.

You....I like you.

[durasteel]

dreamgazer wrote...
Actually, yelling at the eons-old, immensely overpowered Reapers to get out of the galaxy and them actually complying would have been far worse than, as you say, the "artistic integrity" ending. 

So, you think that "Ok, we'll leave" is an order of magnitude worse than "Ok, we'll let you blow us all up if you want to--I'll tell you how," or "Ok, you're our god now."

Interesting.

[ImaginaryMatter]

durasteel wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...
Actually, yelling at the eons-old, immensely overpowered Reapers to get out of the galaxy and them actually complying would have been far worse than, as you say, the "artistic integrity" ending. 

So, you think that "Ok, we'll leave" is an order of magnitude worse than "Ok, we'll let you blow us all up if you want to--I'll tell you how," or "Ok, you're our god now."

Interesting.

In my ultimately pointless musings about the ME3 endings, I always wondered why there wasn't an option for the Catalyst to bag its bags and go. I mean it did admit that it's solution wouldn't work any more and it seems perfectly at ease to have Shepard destroy it, why just not skip the middle man and self destruct?

[Auintus]

To me, it seems to be accomplishing the Reaper's goals(the permanent end of synthetic/organic conflict) on our own terms(the crucible is not of Reaper design).
As for what it does, my headcanon is that everyone winds up with cybernetic modifications akin to post-Lazarus Shepard. Synthetics are imbued with the true understanding of what it means to be human, as Shepard knew it.
On a philosophical level, I always saw it as Destroy="Synthetics are a threat to be destroyed," Control="Synthetics are tools to be used," Synthesis="Synthetics are living beings to be understood.

[Kia Purity]

To me, it means bad things and makes my teeth itch. Just ... no. There's no such thing as utopia and those who have attempted such things in the past have wound up watching it fall in spectacular blazes.

I prefer diversity, thanks.

[SporkFu]

I just finished a control ending playthrough, and I actually didn't spacebar my way through the starkid conversation this time, heh. I'm quite proud of paying attention to the whole thing this time. After it was all over, I was still thinking about the consequences of each choice.

To me, synthesis equals stagnation, because it is the final evolution of life in the galaxy. They have nothing more to attain or strive for. I think there's still room for growth of the ME universe, and the "perfection" that both synthetics and organics seek to attain, according to starkid, kinda nullifies that growth.

[Eryri]

Tolkein, disliked overt, heavy-handed allegory in literature, but he liked to believe that his stories had "applicability". Although his readers would never have to literally battle orcs, or throw magic rings into volcanoes, he hoped they could be inspired by his stories' themes of friendship and courage in the face of adversity, and apply that general inspiration to other situations in their own lives.

Synthesis, has no applicability to real life whatsoever. Homophobia will never be eliminated by waving a magic wand and making everybody bi. Religious persecution will never be solved by converting everyone into some grand-unified, "super faith". It's not how real life works, and it never will be. In the real world, intolerance can only be addressed by the long, slow process of communication and understanding. Synthesis is a utopia, as designed by someone with no patience for real human beings.

Modifié par Eryri, 17 décembre 2013 - 10:30 .

[Beneaththetrees]

Well my thoughts on the whole from the chaos of organic species to the heavenly utopia of the synthesis just sounds wrong. We as a species may desire a utopia. But when I think about it it just sounds stagnant and wrong. Chaos and conflict is a part of life, which in my opinion makes life worth living.

You might think that when you die you get peace. But ask yourself would it be better to be born dead and miss out on the journey of life, love and the conflict that makes it worth it? For me that makes synthesis sound just too wrong. I may be wrong but I still wouldn't miss out on the journey.