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Nohvarr wrote...
This is not a slam, just something to think about. You are or were a college student and saw a number of female forms over your semesters of training. The artist at Bioware have likely been doing this professionally for years and have likely seen more than you.
Dozens of male and female forms, and those I run into in daily life. What is, is. I was in college for a solid decade, from eighteen to twenty-eight, mostly because I enjoyed it and stayed well past my masteries in fine arts and creative writing to get far more than I originally went in for.
It's all irrelevant though. The artist obviously intended the character to not only look decidely 'not typical' of the female form (they did the same with Morrigan. This makes it less a, "I want this character to look like X" and more, "All females in the game should look like X." I have a decided problem with this, because the style similarities are very obvious between the two.
One of the strong points in DA2 is that Aveline, Merrill, Isabela, Cassandra and even Flemmeth. This goes back to my personal opinion that it's sad the DA2 visual style was so poorly recieved. I liked it, at a base, the concept art especially was great. I loved what it meant for the Qunari, visually. The overall style, in addition, was also very well planned out in that, despite a shared style, the characters, and not just the female characters, looked very distinct from one another. Individual persons with individual body types. Go from Merrill to Isabela to Aveline. The contrast between on all levels, from the visual to the personality of them is perfect.
This, when I look at the previews of Morrigan to Cassandra I see this very, "All our females are going to have oddly strong and pronounced jaws where they did not prior" style. It's not a bad style, though it doesn't look right my years in life drawing, and other art classes. But, it doesn't have to. It's a style. But when they all have it? And even characters who didn't have it prior?
I think my biggest issue with Cassandra is that the visual style is forced into a character where it doesn't belong. Aveline should look like Aveline. Cassandra should look like Cassandra. If the artist wanted to create a female, or more than one, with that oddly pronounced and strong jaw, this very odd facial structure . . . well, more power to them. But why not create those characters? Why throw it onto characters that never had that visual style before?
This is quite perpexing, and I'm quite decided that no justification or explanation for it will settle me on the subject.
David Gaider wrote...
I think it's fine for someone to suggest that they find Cassandra unattractive, or that they find any character unattractive.
The
problem, as I see it, is that many of those who make such comments
don't stop there. The implication of their statements often progresses
to the point that the only purpose a female character could have in the game is to be
attractive--it's not even "I wouldn't want to romance her if she's
romanceable" but rather "I don't want her present at all because she's
unattractive".
That's all fine and well. They shouldn't look at the female characters, or male characters, as objects. I do wonder why the team has decided that all female character need to have this new, odd, facial structure. I can respect it at a base, in new female characters, but I have a terrible time understanding the need to randomly throw it on top of old characters just because you seem worried they'll become objects if they're not unconventionally attractive.
When you introduced Aveline in DA2, I think you did this right. Because it recognizes females have more than one body type, more than one facial structure, and that makes sense. It's good. It's right. But it was a good and right in the larger scheme of things that recognizes women have many body types. Merrill and Isabel and Cassandra and Aveline all being very distinct, showing us different shapes and sizes, and the understanding that there's nothing wrong with any of them. People are varied. We are salt, we add flavor to life, we are spice. Our variety is a good thing.
So when I see all the female characters being changed to this very odd facial structure . . . I can't help but feel something has been lost. They're still different, but this facial structure, all of them having it, even in cases where they obviously didn't prior . . . that . . . that makes me feel like we've loss sight of the variet of the Human form. It's one thing to recognize that women aren't objects, it's one thing to understand the there are many forms of beauty, attractiveness, and forms that may not be - and that there's nothing wrong with not being what people consider beautiful. All of that is fine. But when every single female character becomes an embodiment of that, with this new facial structure, it feels like we've lost sight of what that actually means.
In other words, critique regarding the art is
great. I'm sure the artists appreciate it, even when it's negative.
Critique regarding the attractiveness is also fine, but if it
comes with an assumption that we only put characters in the game to be
pretty... well, then you're wrong. I'm afraid a statement of "she's not attractive enough for me" will be met with a resounding shrug and a "sorry for your loss".
And I feel the issue shouldn't even be whether they're attractive or not in the first place, but about the visual style itself. I'm fine with it, really, on some characters, but why on the characters we've seen before who obviously didn't have it? I'm . . . not sold on it. It's just a visual thing. It's not a make or break the game for me thing. Not by any stretch. But it does bother me, not because they're unnatractive, but because the change is so obvious and applied where it didn't exist prior.
I suppose what I'm getting at is, "If we're trying to go for the less conventional, then why not add it in, to show the variety of a thing by constrasting it against various forms that do not share it, rather than apply it as a blanket even atop old things that never had this particular visual aspect prior?"
I like the new, but I like the old. Could we not have implemented the new, in regard to new things, and let them serve as contrast against the old? In the manner we're seeing, it seems forced, and it seems like someone lost sight of what a person means when they say, "Not all people, be they male or female, are one thing. They're many things. Emotionally. Logically. Physically. Visually." The list goes on, but at the end of the day, even when we appear nearly the same in some manner, say in how we learn, there are often still differences, even if those differences are merely fractional.
I don't think we introduce the new by sacrificing the old. One of the things that brings so much flavor to the world are the newer generations, but part of the chemistry of our world is the ways in which they contrast older generations of persons around the world of many differing cultures, races and governing types - even religious background. The way there is backlash when a new generation comes out with, "whatever new style, sland, etc . . . " and the older generations, many older generations, react in different ways; accepting, tolerating, complaining, hating or otherwise.
I like that the snowflakes are unique. They're still snowflakes, but they wouldn't be nearly as precious if each weren't differing in some way.
I don't like the blanketing of this new style on every female I've seen out of the game, but that would suggest I don't find it equally annoying where the males are concerned. Looking at Fenris, I know some people disliked him, but the contrast of his visual structure against character's like Cutter was wonderful. Mostly because I've always been considered physically, visually effeminate when compared to other men. I like variety of visual form no matter what we're talking about, is what I'm getting at. And apparently I can't do it concisely.
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Quoting posts here still breaks up the text in odd ways. Sorry for the broken quotes.
Modifié par Janan Pacha, 13 décembre 2013 - 11:33 .
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Yes, please. Reading that made my day.
