499 réponses à ce sujet

[Mathias]

hotdogbsg wrote...

I really like her old look and the new one. Looks like a warrior from what I've seen so far and very attractive, in my opinion.

This. In fact that's my favorite type of woman. If anything I'm crossing my fingers that she'll be romancable.

Her new look is fantastic, in fact it reminds me a lot of Faora from Man of Steel.

[WhiteKnyght]

thats1evildude wrote...

Patrick Weekes gets a silver star for mentioning this thread on Twitter:

"If we can't solve this egregious issue w/art, only workaround is to have her remind you in dialog of her girly bits."

Then David Gaider should get a gold star. He mentioned it first.

[Blackrising]

Okay, this whole manly vs. womanly discussion is ridiculous. There are no guidelines to how a woman has to look to be considered a woman. Cassandra is a woman, therefore she looks like one. And it doesn't matter one bit whether she's got a broad jaw or not or long hair or not.

I've also taken a closer look at the picture of PAX!Cassandra linked earlier in this thread and I've got to change my statement. She looks different here than I remember. (Maybe I was thinking of a different piece of gameplay?)
She looks awesome. Different, but awesome. Downright swoon-worthy, in fact, and definitely better than in the trailer. I do have a thing for strong women with square jaws and perpetual scowls.

[catabuca]

Blackrising wrote...

Okay, this whole manly vs. womanly discussion is ridiculous. There are no guidelines to how a woman has to look to be considered a woman. Cassandra is a woman, therefore she looks like one.

<snip>

And this should be the end of the thread.

<3

[kinderschlager]

 she is sorta.....boxy faced

still, fits the whole "tough as nails" persona IMO

also, snarky gaider is bestest gaider 

Modifié par kinderschlager, 13 décembre 2013 - 01:25 .

[TEWR]

I see the BSN hasn't changed its tune from DAII's character conversations.

Stay classy, BSN.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

The screenshot in the original post is from a trailer, is it not?  Maybe she'll be better-looking in the actual game.  In-game stuff has a tendency to look totally different from the trailers.  I see this fact as a good thing.  For example, the oft-mentioned Sacred Ashes Trailer.

[Leoroc]

I am sure there will be mods. I know I loved the mods I got for Sten, Zevran, Leliana and Alistair in DAO.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

So as the thread creator I made some points that people seem to ignore.

Physical appearance when it comes to beauty ASIDE - consider this:

1) I just think they are ruining the integrity of the character by making her look so vastly different.
2) Physical appearance IS a part of a person/characters identity. Regardless of attractiveness.
3) I suspect they changed her just to do it, for political correctness and to make a point.

Id like some reasonable counter arguments for this if you have them.

Again, it wasnt originally intended to let the focus fall on beauty and femininity over the huge change in appearance. But Im to blame for that becomming the main focus in this discussion I guess.

Modifié par SomeoneStoleMyName, 13 décembre 2013 - 03:09 .

[Aaleel]

It's not really pretty or ugly to me, but it does seem like a face that fits a warrior.

[thats1evildude]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

1) I just think they are ruining the integrity of the character by making her look so vastly different.

Exactly how? How does Cassandra lose "integrity" by having a slightly changed appearance, especially since her previous appearance couldn't be recreated with a different engine?

Modifié par thats1evildude, 13 décembre 2013 - 03:24 .

[daveliam]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

I suspect they changed her just to do it, for political correctness and to make a point.

it wasnt originally intended to let the focus fall on beauty and femininity 

Perhaps you can help me put these two statements of yours together because they seem contradictory to me.  On one hand, you are saying that they changed her "for political correctness", which I'm assuming has to do with the fact that you called her an "abomination" in the OP.  On the other hand, you then claim that your statement wasn't focused on the "beauty and femininity".

Why call her an abomination then?  And what "politically correct" message would they be sending by purposely altering her appearance from one game to the next?

[Mathias]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I see the BSN hasn't changed its tune from DAII's character conversations.

Stay classy, BSN.

The BSN is absolutely 100% full Grade A Ridiculous when it comes to character design. I've never seen a specific fanbase be so finnicky when it comes to character design, and over the most miniscule things too. The only times I had an issue with character design were the ghoulish looking hands on Bethany and Isabella from DA2, and Ashley's offensive redesign from ME3. But that's only because the hands in DA2 basically looked unfinished and ghastly, and Ashley's redesign was a complete betrayal to her character.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

daveliam wrote...

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

I suspect they changed her just to do it, for political correctness and to make a point.

it wasnt originally intended to let the focus fall on beauty and femininity 

Perhaps you can help me put these two statements of yours together because they seem contradictory to me.  On one hand, you are saying that they changed her "for political correctness", which I'm assuming has to do with the fact that you called her an "abomination" in the OP.  On the other hand, you then claim that your statement wasn't focused on the "beauty and femininity".

Why call her an abomination then?  And what "politically correct" message would they be sending by purposely altering her appearance from one game to the next?

To put it this way. If the DA:I look was the original look in DA:2, and the DA:2 look was what she got turned into in DA:I - I wouldnt be any less agreeable with her appearance change. As I said, physical appearance IS a part of the identity of a character, therefore imo - a huge change in appearance IS attacking the integrity of a character in the same way a vast change in PERSONALITY would be. 

Fundementally changeing a character too drastically for no reason is attacking a characters integrity in my eyes.

However... people seem to disagree alot here. Some people say she looks the same, some says she looks abit different (for better or worse) and you got those like me who think she has changed WAAAY too much. As for how I can think that, I didnt recognize her at all. The HAIR actually made me suspect it was her - not the face. 

Im not going to lie, I may be shallow or whatnot since I DO want her to look more beautiful. But again I also stated that if Bioware INTENDED for Cassandra to originally look like she did in DA:I in DA:2, I wouldnt disagree with her change.

As for calling her an abomination and all that, I already apologized for that. I went too far and shot my own original point in the foot by acting like a douchebag out of frustration. 

That said: The model for Cassandra isnt bad at all! The problem is that the change is too huge from her original look. But apparantly that opinion of mine appears to be something of a minority.

[daveliam]

Fair enough about the abomination piece.  Did you have a concern with her appearance in the anime?   I'm still not sure that I agree with you about the integrity part, but to each his own.

The question I still have, though, is the "political correctness" statement that you made. Why is it politically correct to change her appearance? Even if I did think it was a conscious decision on the developers' part and not just an effect of a new engine (which I don't), what statement does that make? Is it because she's less "traditionally beautiful"? How is that an issue with political correctness? Maybe I'm just dense?

Modifié par daveliam, 13 décembre 2013 - 03:52 .

[katerinafm]

All that bugs me is that her neck appears to be too thin. That could be how the bodies in DAI will look in general though, not on her face specifically. Other than that I think she looks badass.

[Angrywolves]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

So as the thread creator I made some points that people seem to ignore.

Physical appearance when it comes to beauty ASIDE - consider this:

1) I just think they are ruining the integrity of the character by making her look so vastly different.
2) Physical appearance IS a part of a person/characters identity. Regardless of attractiveness.
3) I suspect they changed her just to do it, for political correctness and to make a point.

Id like some reasonable counter arguments for this if you have them.

Again, it wasnt originally intended to let the focus fall on beauty and femininity over the huge change in appearance. But Im to blame for that becomming the main focus in this discussion I guess.

Not ruining it.
I would prefer her look from DA2.She was beautiful there, less so now.
I believe since they couldn't use the programs they used from the previous game(s) that had the faces of the characters from those games stored, they decided to redraw  them and the person who did it did a bad job of it as far as Cassandra and Morrigan are concerned.
I suspect those who say she looks fine won't be happy when they see how other characters from the previous games look when they show up in DAI.
As it is those of us who disagree with those folks will have to deal with it, as someone said, as we see fit.
But the game isn't ruined.I still intend to buy it, assuming it gets good reviews, others who are dissatisfied with various aspects of the game will buy it as well. No game is perfect or is all we would wish it to be.
shrugs.

[metatheurgist]

Timely article:

Perfect faces reveal men and women's starkly different thoughts on beauty

Too much of a good thing IMO.

[David7204]

Blackrising wrote...

Okay, this whole manly vs. womanly discussion is ridiculous. There are no guidelines to how a woman has to look to be considered a woman.

Yes. There are. If a woman looks convincingly like a man, she's going to be considered a man. That's really just the end of it.

Note that I'm not talking about Cassandra. Just in general.

Modifié par David7204, 13 décembre 2013 - 06:20 .

[Fredward]

David7204 wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Okay, this whole manly vs. womanly discussion is ridiculous. There are no guidelines to how a woman has to look to be considered a woman.

Yes. There are. If a woman looks convincingly like a man, she's going to be considered a man. That's really just the end of it.

Note that I'm not talking about Cassandra. Just in general.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Also how the **** is this thread still going? It's clearly been brought to the devs attention.

[David7204]

Well, if the woman in question doesn't mind being thought of (and thus, likely treated) with hesitance and even hostility, no.

[Fredward]

David7204 wrote...
Well, if the woman in question doesn't mind being thought of (and thus, likely treated) with hesitance and even hostility, no.

The real problem here being that she'd be treated with hesistancy and hostility. Because she doesn't conform to some external ideal of what womanhood should entail. I don't have a problem with people discussing how characters look, I like my fantasy characters attractive too tbh, it's the subtext that gets me.

[David7204]

A question, Foopydoopy. I want to make something very clear. You say this a problem. Suppose we have a woman being treated less-than-ideally. Maybe she's overweight. Maybe she doesn't look feminine. Whatever.

Think very carefully.

Is the problem that people say potentially hurtful things and do potentially hurtful things?

Or is the problem that people think them?

[Nefla]

David7204 wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Okay, this whole manly vs. womanly discussion is ridiculous. There are no guidelines to how a woman has to look to be considered a woman.

Yes. There are. If a woman looks convincingly like a man, she's going to be considered a man. That's really just the end of it.

Note that I'm not talking about Cassandra. Just in general.

Mistaken for a man maybe, but after hearing her voice or just being corrected, it's not like people are going to go "nope, you're a man!" 

[Fredward]

David7204 wrote...
Is the problem that people say potentially hurtful things and do potentially hurtful things?

Or is the problem that people think them?

All of the above really. You're presenting them like they're 3 distinct actions but they're interlinked. People say and do hurtful things because they think hurtful things, they think hurtful things because they see them being done and talked about, it becomes acceptable. "Hurtful things" being a euphemism here. For instance someone makes a sexist joke, to him (or her) it's just a joke, meant as such, not thought about. But wonder about why it's funny and it points to some deeply held prejudicial stereotypes. People keep propagating this without thinking (and that, the not thinking, is the cardinal sin here) and it breeds an environment that fosters this kind of thing.

So threads like this become a whole lot more than just some people whinging about how they dislike a woman's face. Thinking someone is fugly is one thing, beauty is one of the most subjective things in the world, the reasons for thinking someone is another thing and then thinking someone is flawed or somehow inherently wrong because they don't line up with those reasons is another thing and the real problem. And that's what people do in threads like these, whether they realize it or not.