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[durasteel]

So, I've been assuming that the red ending of ME3 kills EDI and the Geth according to both the original and extended cuts of that ending. Is that actually correct? There are threads where this is debated, but they all seem to be over a year old and leave the question unanswered.

I just came across references to tweets from Jessica Merizan that EDI and the Geth aren't destroyed, but that their Reaper code is disabled. I haven't read the original tweets.

As far as I know, there is no actual statement in the epilog slideshow that the Geth or EDI are killed, but they're not shown after the red magic blast. It seems that, although the EC was supposed to add clarity and closure, this is an area which remains in the "lots of speculation" category.

If anyone knows different, please tell me.

[Iakus]

That tweet predates EC, and when things were in full "speculation mode

The geth and EDI are never mentioned by name in the Destroy ending.

However:

There are no geth slides for Destroy at all. If you sided with the geth on Rannoch, then pick destroy, you see Rannoch abandoned

EDI's name is on the memorial wall, and she is not present with the other crew members. She does have a flashback scene with the other dead characters, though.

So yeah, it's pretty clear what happened. Isn't "art" grand?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

They're gone. I'm not particularly upset about having to sacrifice them to achieve my goal. I'm more worried about the relays being down.

[durasteel]

So even BioWare "insiders" didn't know what the hell happened in...

That's just...

I can't even.

[KaiserShep]

EDI's name on the memorial wall is about as much as we get.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Eh, I'm not sad about EDI. I lost my connection with her in ME3.

[ImaginaryMatter]

The fact that Shepard lives adds more fuel to the fire, since the Catalyst did predict the death of Shepard along with all other AI. Maybe the crew put EDI up on the wall because her body got destroyed and everyone forgot that she was actually the ship.

[Deathsaurer]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

The fact that Shepard lives adds more fuel to the fire, since the Catalyst did predict the death of Shepard along with all other AI. Maybe the crew put EDI up on the wall because her body got destroyed and everyone forgot that she was actually the ship.

Nope. In low EMS Control her name isn't on the wall if Harbinger destroys Eva's body.

EDI clearly not standing there but not on the wall. Looks like the death of all AI wasn't a bluff at all.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Oh, my EDI comment was more of a joke about how overused her new body was.

[Deathsaurer]

Ah... well my mistake.

[Massa FX]

delete - double post

Modifié par Massa FX, 12 décembre 2013 - 06:44 .

[Massa FX]

It's implied that they'll die and so we assume they are dead.

What needs clarification:

• Was software and hardware destroyed? If 1 but not the other... why?
• Does EDI now exist as the Normandy without her sexbot body? Is she now back to a VI?
• Is there no VI on the Normandy now, if EDI is truly gone?
• ... can Joker fly without a VI helping him do the complex math bits?
• Did the Geth that downloaded into Quarian suits survive the purge, or did they perish along with their Quarian hosts? or... just perish alone?
• What about Geth that exist far away from any mass relay. Dead or Alive?
• Did Avina survive? She's such a simple program. Are simple programs affected?
• What about Cerberus mech troops? All gone?
• How extensive and thorough was the Crucible Effect?
• Was Shepard not human? Why imply she'd be affected unless she wasn't human?
• Do cybernetic implants and a metal spine qualify you as an AI? (that's silly if 'yes', IMO.)

lots of questions and I'm just scratching the logic/silly surface.

Modifié par Massa FX, 12 décembre 2013 - 06:46 .

[KaiserShep]

Yeah the "even you are partly synthetic" should not be taken seriously. Shepard is not partially made from reaper tech, and Shepard is not a "high tech VI" like he/she may mention when watching the logs on Cronos.

[Deathsaurer]

Honestly I always took that as just look at what synthetics have done for you so far and imagine what else they could do if given the chance.

[ImaginaryMatter]

I think the confusion stems from the terrible and vague Catalyst dialogue not from any purposeful ambiguity on the behalf of the writers.

[KaiserShep]

The Catalyst's line saying "Can you imagine your life without them" is appropriate for that meaning, but the line about Shepard being partly synthetic only serves to blur the definition of synthetic within the context of this conversation. The implants are not synthetics the same way the geth or EDI are. It would be like saying "without synthetics you wouldn't be able to live in space" or "without synthetics you'd never be able to cook varren pockets in 3 minutes."

[Deathsaurer]

Yeah it's playing fast and loose with the meaning to try to make its point. When it says all synthetics will be targeted it means AIs, when it's talking about Shepard it means cybernetic implants. Cybernetic implants = good, more better cybernetic implants = the bestest.


It's funny because it is treating you like a child trying to dumb things down to a ridiculous level sounding like an idiot in the process while taking the visage of a child...

Modifié par Deathsaurer, 12 décembre 2013 - 07:13 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

Deathsaurer wrote...

Yeah it's playing fast and loose with the meaning to try to make its point. When it says all synthetics will be targeted it means AIs, when it's talking about Shepard it means cybernetic implants. Cybernetic implants = good, more better cybernetic implants = the bestest.


It's funny because it is treating you like a child trying to dumb things down to a ridiculous level sounding like an idiot in the process while taking the visage of a child...

Hence my joke theory that Avina and the Catalyst are the same entity and have the same level of intelligence.

[AlanC9]

Massa FX wrote...

• Does EDI now exist as the Normandy without her sexbot body? Is she now back to a VI?.

It isn't just the loss of the body. Get EDI's mobile platform vaporized in low-EMS Control and they don't put her on the wall.

[ElSuperGecko]

Personally speaking, I'm sad that Destroy ends EDI. However, I take comfort from the fact that she would not only have understood my decision, but approved:

EDI: If the Normandy were captured, my fate would be similar to the indoctrinated. My code would be rewritten. I would become loyal to the Reapers. I would rather become non-functional than help them.
Shepard: We won't let that happen to you, EDI.
EDI: You may have no choice. If you perish first, I want you to know I will never be a part of the Reaper forces. The Reapers must be defeated. Not because they threaten death, but because the threat of death makes us die inside. It is the right of sapients to live freely and securely. That is worth non-functionality.

EDI: Shepard, I'm going to modify my self-preservation code now.
Shepard: Why?
EDI: Because the Reapers are repulsive. They are devoted to nothing but self-preservation. I am different. When I think of Jeff, I think of the person that put his life in peril and freed me from a state of servitude. I would risk non-functionality for him. And my core programming should reflect that.
Shepard: Sounds like you've found a little humanity, EDI. Is it worth defending?
EDI: To the death.

[Han Shot First]

EDI and the Geth are destroyed.

That being said in the Extended Cut the Catalyst told Shepard that anything that would be destroyed could be rebuilt, and the Catalyst says that in specifically response to a query on how the Crucible will affect Synthetics. So while EDI and the Geth are destroyed, that destroyed state is not necessarily permanent. Also EDI was destroyed once before on Luna, and retained some memories of that time after being rebuilt and upgraded.

Will they be rebuilt? Unless a sequel ever gets made, I suppose that's left to player head canon. 

Massa FX wrote...


It's implied that they'll die and so we assume they are dead.

What needs clarification:

• Was software and hardware destroyed? If 1 but not the other... why?

.

Most likely they're just deactivated rather than physically destroyed. That appears to be the case with the Reapers, as you see 'dead' Reaper hulks floating in space in the slides.

[durasteel]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...
Hence my joke theory that Avina and the Catalyst are the same entity and have the same level of intelligence.

That is so unfair.

Avina sometimes provides useful information.

[durasteel]

It is really striking me all over again just how rancid the ending is, and how the EC does nothing whatsoever to improve it.

EDI is a squad member, she has a story that spans all three games, she is not some random NPC to just kill off camera without comment. That is seriously crap writing. There is no scene of Joker's lamentation, nothing. She's not killed so much as... dismissed.

Same thing with the Geth. Geth are iconic in Mass Effect, with a deep and (I thought) rewarding story arc. If Shepard achieved peace between Geth and Quarians, that would be a lasting legacy, but the Geth, too, are just... dismissed. We don't see platforms deactivating, we don't see code unraveling in the Geth matrix, we just simply don't see any more Geth. Like they never mattered.

When other characters died it was moving, personal, and powerful. Legion's "Does this unit have a soul," Tali's "I'm sorry," Thane's dying prayer for redemption, not for himself but for Shepard. Mordin's redemption, humming Gilbert & Sullivan. These were scenes of significance, these were events in the game narrative.

Leaving a squad member and an entire nascent race of sentients to be "presumed dead" does not meet the standards of BioWare writing. I guess this is why "artistic integrity" has become a euphemism and a meme. The ending is devoid of both art and integrity.

I can only speak for myself, obviously, but the only reason I linger around here on the Mass Effect forums is because I am waiting for a sign, waiting for something to make me think that ME4 will be worth caring about. Of course, the problem is that I am constantly reminded of just how incredibly badly the Mass Effect universe is broken, and how tenuous the hope is that the "artistic integrity" crew will be willing to fix it.

After all, putting the galaxy back together again might be interpreted by some as an admission that it was stupid to break it in the first place.

[KaiserShep]

@durasteel, I agree. This is made even more apparent if you actually befriended EDI and went through all of her dialogue. If you did this, she ends up being one of the faces you see as Shepard makes the final decision, but this results in her not being among the faces you see that were lost in the war during Hackett's monologue. Basically, you *only* get a brief glimpse of her name on the wall, and her absence from the memorial, and that's it. I don't mind this consequence being tacked onto the final decision as much as I mind it never actually happening in the view of the player. It's as if BioWare was very careful to gloss over the negative aspects of any given choice to appeal to all the players. This has the unfortunate side effect of some people drawing conclusions that the geth didn't actually die, and the catalyst lied.

[eyezonlyii]

What about the children of the Ascension program? The L4 implants have VI's in them to help regulate biotics. How advanced does a synthetic intelligence have to be in order to be affected?