The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Is it a pretty solution? No. Is it one I can necessarily condemn or approve of? Again, no, because it wasn't done For the Evulz like Orlais did. There were reasons.
That clearly is not writing inconsistancy if 2 of my examples are from ME2, THE VERY GAME YOU SAY SHOWS THEY ARE MORALY GREY?Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Not wrong.
What part of "writing incompetence" escapes you?
That writing incompetence didn't suddely start in ME3. ME2 is full of it. The Lazarus? The Entire unnecessary Shep death? The Bay reaper? Etc, etc..
The please explain why she bought the pure lyrium Idol then.XxDeonxX wrote...
1. No she doesn't, stop making things up. All she says is she bought it from bartrand for a high price. She never says she bought it to bring down the circle YOU need to rewatch it.
2. Whether the Divine would support it or not is irrelevant.. The point is there is absolutely no proof at all she was trying to bring down the circle before act 3.
What does it matter if you agree or not? The concept of motivation is that is has to be an action the logic of that charcter sees makes sense to them. An action based on their thinking.Lotion Soronnar wrote...
There are ALWAYS reasons.
Orlais had reasons.
Hitler had reasons
The USA had reasons
TIM had reasons.
Everyone - andtheir grandmother - has reasons.
The only question is if you agree with their reasons and their actions.
She never states why she purchased it. Anything anyone says on the reason is pure speculationleaguer of one wrote...
The please explain why she bought the pure lyrium Idol then.
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Is it a pretty solution? No. Is it one I can necessarily condemn or approve of? Again, no, because it wasn't done For the Evulz like Orlais did. There were reasons.
There are ALWAYS reasons.
Orlais had reasons.
Hitler had reasons
The USA had reasons
TIM had reasons.
Everyone - andtheir grandmother - has reasons.
The only question is if you agree with their reasons and their actions.
Modifié par t0mm06, 19 décembre 2013 - 12:03 .
Drone223 wrote...
MasterScribe wrote...
I disagree. I think it's unrealistic to humanize every antagonist. It should depend on the narrative.
Sometimes a traditional antagonist works really well, and is more appropriate.
Sometimes I don't care why he or she is antagonizing me.
^This, you can have a sympathetic antagonist, but not all antagonists should be sympathetic.
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
There are ALWAYS reasons.
Orlais had reasons.
Hitler had reasons
The USA had reasons
TIM had reasons.
Everyone - andtheir grandmother - has reasons.
The only question is if you agree with their reasons and their actions.
leaguer of one wrote...
That clearly is not writing inconsistancy if 2 of my examples are from ME2, THE VERY GAME YOU SAY SHOWS THEY ARE MORALY GREY?
You do understand that you are devaluing the only source you can us to back on he case cerberus is moraly grey, right?
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
leaguer of one wrote...
That clearly is not writing inconsistancy if 2 of my examples are from ME2, THE VERY GAME YOU SAY SHOWS THEY ARE MORALY GREY?
You do understand that you are devaluing the only source you can us to back on he case cerberus is moraly grey, right?
It doesn't matter.
Writing can be incosistent within the same work. Bad writing is bad writing.
The stated goal of Bioware and their stated intention clashes with their result.
The way they descrabed TIM abnd Cerberus and their statements regarding them have been conflicting and incosistent.
Anyone remember when they claimed that TIM is NOT indoctrinated and that he will NOT be Saren 2.0?
Modifié par XxDeonxX, 19 décembre 2013 - 03:07 .
Sorry, It's obviouse why she bought it.XxDeonxX wrote...
She never states why she purchased it. Anything anyone says on the reason is pure speculationleaguer of one wrote...
The please explain why she bought the pure lyrium Idol then.
No, you assume you know why she bought it, It doesn't make it so. Opinons are not facts, this is a lesson you should try learning.leaguer of one wrote...
Sorry, It's obviouse why she bought it.XxDeonxX wrote...
She never states why she purchased it. Anything anyone says on the reason is pure speculationleaguer of one wrote...
The please explain why she bought the pure lyrium Idol then.
I think you missunderstood that. They meant reguardless to his past he was not. That does not mean he never will be. Also, what TIM want is vastly different then what Saren wanted. They're consept is also simaler.Lotion Soronnar wrote...
leaguer of one wrote...
That clearly is not writing inconsistancy if 2 of my examples are from ME2, THE VERY GAME YOU SAY SHOWS THEY ARE MORALY GREY?
You do understand that you are devaluing the only source you can us to back on he case cerberus is moraly grey, right?
It doesn't matter.
Writing can be incosistent within the same work. Bad writing is bad writing.
The stated goal of Bioware and their stated intention clashes with their result.
The way they descrabed TIM abnd Cerberus and their statements regarding them have been conflicting and incosistent.
Anyone remember when they claimed that TIM is NOT indoctrinated and that he will NOT be Saren 2.0?
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
There are ALWAYS reasons.
Orlais had reasons.
Hitler had reasons
The USA had reasons
TIM had reasons.
Everyone - andtheir grandmother - has reasons.
The only question is if you agree with their reasons and their actions.
Well yes, everyone has reasons. And yes, what matters is whether the reasons can be agreed with or not.
But Orlais' reasoning was pretty much for the evulz. They believe they rule through divine right and that they could do whatever they want to the people of Ferelden. It's no secret that many, if not most, Orlesians view Fereldans as backwater, mangy, dog-loving, foul-smelling, and all around untouchable barbarians that can be mistreated.
Theny why did she buy it he did not by it just because. You just making this arguement because you don't want to admit that I'm right.XxDeonxX wrote...
No, you assume you know why she bought it, It doesn't make it so. Opinons are not facts, this is a lesson you should try learning.leaguer of one wrote...
Sorry, It's obviouse why she bought it.XxDeonxX wrote...
She never states why she purchased it. Anything anyone says on the reason is pure speculationleaguer of one wrote...
The please explain why she bought the pure lyrium Idol then.
Considering you initially tried to argue she said she bought it to destroy the circle and you now seem to have capitulated on that point - considering the fact it was an outright lie, that is evidence of your error already. Now your spouting your assumptions as fact which is ludicrous. Ive already answered your question, She never states why she purchased the idol, nothing states it.. There is absolutely no evidence at all to support your argument.leaguer of one wrote...
Theny why did she buy it he did not by it just because. You just making this arguement because you don't want to admit that I'm right.XxDeonxX wrote...
No, you assume you know why she bought it, It doesn't make it so. Opinons are not facts, this is a lesson you should try learning.leaguer of one wrote...
Sorry, It's obviouse why she bought it.XxDeonxX wrote...
She never states why she purchased it. Anything anyone says on the reason is pure speculationleaguer of one wrote...
The please explain why she bought the pure lyrium Idol then.
You still did not get the fact that they were manipulating you in ME2? It's a surprise that a group who was trying to make super soldiers and mindcontrol other races in ME1 and 2 to suddenly do so in ME3?XxDeonxX wrote...
Yeah they really messed him up bad, I prefer not to think about it =( But then again that whole third game was a mess.
I do remember them saying that, I foolishly believed that up until someone asked at one of the ME3 demonstrations if we could side with Cerberus and Bioware responded "Lol why would you wanna' do that, they're the bad guys?" I could see things going bad as soon as I heard that and I was not wrong
Again, Your ignoring facts. From act 1 people were saying she was cracking down on mages. Act 2s howed that she baleive there was a blood mage problem in the circle of Kirkwall and fighting with the grand enchanter about it. You're saying that a templar leader who suspects a circle full of blood mages to not prepare to fight them?XxDeonxX wrote...
Considering you initially tried to argue she said she bought it to destroy the circle and you now seem to have capitulated on that point - considering the fact it was an outright lie, that is evidence of your error already. Now your spouting your assumptions as fact which is ludicrous. Ive already answered your question, She never states why she purchased the idol, nothing states it.. There is absolutely no evidence at all to support your argument.leaguer of one wrote...
Theny why did she buy it he did not by it just because. You just making this arguement because you don't want to admit that I'm right.XxDeonxX wrote...
No, you assume you know why she bought it, It doesn't make it so. Opinons are not facts, this is a lesson you should try learning.leaguer of one wrote...
Sorry, It's obviouse why she bought it.XxDeonxX wrote...
She never states why she purchased it. Anything anyone says on the reason is pure speculationleaguer of one wrote...
The please explain why she bought the pure lyrium Idol then.
Your agument is based purely on your assumptions. So pray tell how is it you are right? If you can't present any evidence you cant make such ludicrous claims.
Modifié par XxDeonxX, 19 décembre 2013 - 04:28 .
She was craking down on criminal mages in Act1. In Act 2 it was shown she belevived that most of the circle were blood mages and they were hiding them. Both criminal acts.XxDeonxX wrote...
How is cracking down on criminal mages evidence she wants to bring down the circle?
How is concern of blood mages evidence she wants to bring down the circle?
She never states the circle is full of blood mages, she argues with Orsino about the circle harboring blood mages but thats in Act 3 not 2.
I'm not saying why she bought the idol, she perhaps bought it to study it and then used it to make a sword later yes, Lyrium imbued swords are not unheard of see Starfang for instance.
Its possible she had a contingency plan to annul the circle certainly but that doesn't mean she planned with absolute certainty to enact it.
But still you've yet to present any evidence that she bought the sword to bring down the circle, all you present is logic leaps and *** pulls.
Modifié par leaguer of one, 19 décembre 2013 - 04:39 .
I feel like I'm going in circles here..... How is this evidence she wants to bring down the circle? Also I never even disputed she was doing this?leaguer of one wrote...
She was craking down on criminal mages in Act1.
Act 3, check again.leaguer of one wrote...
In Act 2 it was shown she belevived that most of the circle were blood mages and they were hiding them. Both criminal acts.
Once again act 3, and she never says most of the circle either.. She says Orsino. not most of the circleis harboring blood mages. Harboring blood mages =/= Most of the circle blood magesleaguer of one wrote...
And is a circle is fill with blood mages it's grounds for an annulment. She is she thinks that:
a.most of the circle were blood mages
b.And the circle were hinding blood mages.
Planning to take down some criminal mages =/= planning to take down the whole circleleaguer of one wrote...
You don't think she would plan to take down these"CRIMINAL MAGES"?
They told you that did they? Please show me where its stated Templars don't study things? And even so does her buying it to study prevent her from having it studied by a mage or something? Never stated she was going to do it personallyleaguer of one wrote...
And no, Templar don't by accult items to study. Mages do that. That make no sense for her to by it to study... Try agein..
Modifié par XxDeonxX, 19 décembre 2013 - 04:42 .
"I feel like I'm going in circles here..... How is this evidence she wants to bring down the circle? Also I never even disputed she was doing this?"XxDeonxX wrote...
I feel like I'm going in circles here..... How is this evidence she wants to bring down the circle? Also I never even disputed she was doing this?leaguer of one wrote...
She was craking down on criminal mages in Act1.Act 3, check again.leaguer of one wrote...
In Act 2 it was shown she belevived that most of the circle were blood mages and they were hiding them. Both criminal acts.Once again act 3, and she never says most of the circle either.. She says Orsino. not most of the circleis harboring blood mages. Harboring blood mages =/= Most of the circle blood magesleaguer of one wrote...
And is a circle is fill with blood mages it's grounds for an annulment. She is she thinks that:
a.most of the circle were blood mages
b.And the circle were hinding blood mages.Planning to take down some criminal mages =/= planning to take down the whole circleleaguer of one wrote...
You don't think she would plan to take down these"CRIMINAL MAGES"?They told you that did they? Please show me where its stated Templars don't study things? And even so does her buying it to study prevent her from having it studied by a mage or something? Never stated she was going to do it personallyleaguer of one wrote...
And no, Templar don't by accult items to study. Mages do that. That make no sense for her to by it to study... Try agein..
leaguer of one wrote...
Sorry, It's obviouse why she bought it.XxDeonxX wrote...
She never states why she purchased it. Anything anyone says on the reason is pure speculation
leaguer of one wrote...
I think you missunderstood that. They meant reguardless to his past he was not. That does not mean he never will be. Also, what TIM want is vastly different then what Saren wanted. They're consept is also simaler.
This is not a case of inconsistancy. My point is the actions of the character must be consistate with the way they think , not use common logic.
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