434 réponses à ce sujet

[DarthLaxian]

ghostzodd wrote...

I concur I like when my antagonists in any media whether it be books, games, manga have clear reasons why their are doing what they do not just I AM INSANE IN THE MEMBRANE.

indeed

i hated this plot device (hell, i would have loved it if say Meredith went after that red-lyrium stuff because she knew of it's power and wanted to use it and she became more fanatical after getting it (nothing against substances influencing someones mind/personality - but never use that as the reason a person is a certain way, meaning: if someone was fanatical, they have been that way before using drug-xyz etc.))

greetings LAX

[thats1evildude]

rapscallioness wrote...



I will admit, I don;t know if too much humanizing of the villain will actually make them less scary.

One of the scariest villains I've come across was from Firefly...what was his name?...Earl? It was Earl something. Or Jubal.

Anyway he was a bounty hunter looking for one of their crew. This guy scared the crap outta me precisely because he was so completely crazy evil. But a Cold Blooded kinda evil. Not barking mad and emotional about it, although he did occasionally go off on some weird tangents.

edit: he was like a serial killer that actually gets off on hurting ppl...shivers, I tell ya. Shivers.

Jubal Early.

[Steelcan]

Jubal Early was just awesome

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Steelcan wrote...

Jubal Early was just awesome

Agreed

[Dabrikishaw]

MasterScribe wrote...

I disagree. I think it's unrealistic to humanize every antagonist. It should depend on the narrative.

Sometimes a traditional antagonist works really well, and is more appropriate.

Sometimes I don't care why he or she is antagonizing me.

[DarthSliver]

The problem with Mass Effect series is I dont think it stuck to the indoctrination theme that was going on and we get the ME3 endings we have now.

Now for DA2 the endings were a bit sloppy and you can see that with the reused maps Bioware being sloppy. I felt the story was good until the end because you end up fighting both Orisino and Meredith no matter who you choose to side with.

[Vandicus]

I thought the antagonist of DA2 was Anders. Everyone else we killed at the end just got played by him.

[Angrywolves]

uh, the Antagonist isn't going to be human.

[Clockwork_Wings]

If the characters didn't call her crazy, I never would have noticed. Up until she started randomly accusing templars she could have just been billed as someone who'd been doing the job too long.

Maybe Varric remembers Anders saying she'd gone crazy, but never saw any evidence of it himself.

[leaguer of one]

wolfhowwl wrote...

It's going to be another indoctrinated ****** like Meredith or the Illusive Man.

Search your feelings; you know it to be true.

1.Meredith was infected by something she did not know was dangerous and when slowly crazy from it.

2. TIM was trying to steal fire from gods and got burn. Ironicly, him doing do revealed the fact that these so called gods were only tools.

[Plaintiff]

You realise that insanity is a thing that sometimes happens to people in real life, yes? That's it's a totally viable and realistic motivation?

[Augustei]

Usergnome wrote...

How was Meredith dehumanized? Excluding her last moments where she became insane and turned on Hawke and her own Templars.

Like I said in my original post she wasn't initially dehumanzed and actually did have the proper believable motivations etc... But it was precisely the actions at the end where she "becomes insane" that dehumanized and ruined her as a character I believe.

Plaintiff wrote...

You realise that insanity is a thing
that sometimes happens to people in real life, yes? That's it's a
totally viable and realistic motivation?

Yeah but Insanity as a result of posession or mind control isn't, I have no problem with antagonists suffering from insanity if its done right and not overused (A good example of it being done right is Raul Menendez from Black ops 2, I think he was an awesome antagonist)
But when people go bat**** crazy because of outside influence like indoctrination, or Red Lyrium it really cheapens things.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Every person we fight ending up being just crazy really cheapens everything as well. Loghain, Howe, Zatharian/Lady of the Forest, Uldred arguably, none of them were crazy and really helped to balance things out when fighting folks like Branka, Connor, and the dragon cults.

[Steelcan]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Every person we fight ending up being just crazy really cheapens everything as well. Loghain, Howe, Zatharian/Lady of the Forest, Uldred arguably, none of them were crazy and really helped to balance things out when fighting folks like Branka, Connor, and the dragon cults.

Hey, Branka and the Cult of Andraste were good people that proved to be valuable allies to my Warden.

they were still insane

[Aaleel]

It's really a case by case thing for me. I liked Saren's character and they humanized him to the point it was a sad scene when he shot himself. He really thought he was doing the right thing.

But on the other side, I really didn't need to know why the reapers were doing what they were doing.

You can look at the Joker in Batman, "some people just want to see to world burn."

But an excellent case of humanizing a villain but still having that villain be deep down evil is the Queen on Once Upon a Time. Whoever writes her deserves an award. She is evil to the bone but they you still feel sorry for her at times.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

DinoSteve wrote...

Dragon Age needs one of these

Kefka was actually a very deep character despite his "Destroy the world attitude". Because his wanting to destroy the world stemmed from a nihilistic view that the world is meaningless. This is something one can easily relate to. If there is no god or purpose of life, does it have value? If the world is finite and all life suffers in it like a prison. Isnt ending the world the good choice? A non-existant world cant suffer. Despite his malevolence, can destroying a world in which evil rules - be considered evil in itself? Morals as a human construct (Nietzsche). Kefka was a great villain, despite his "DESTROOOY" attitude because his reasons to wanting to destroy the world can be looked at from such philosophical perspectives.

[Aaleel]

DinoSteve wrote...

Dragon Age needs one of these

The main reason why that is my favorite game in the series.

[Sylvius the Mad]

MasterScribe wrote...

Sometimes I don't care why he or she is antagonizing me.

It doesn't matter whether you're aware of the reason.  It doesn't matter whether you care about the reason.

It matters whether there is a reason.

[Steppenwolf]

To me, villains are always better when they are rational and have defined motives. Villains like the Joker are nice because they're unpredictable and do horrible things, but a villain like Magneto will always be better because he's right. Compare this to Dragon Age: Meredith was out of her mind and did things that undermined her own cause. Loghain was paranoid but still wholly rational. The Wardens gave Fereldans more than enough reason to distrust them and he had every right to be concerned about an Orlesian threat. No one had seen the Archdemon and the idiot king was putting personal glory above his nation. Loghain arguably did the smartest thing.

Loghain is clearly the superior villain. Meredith never even had a "Killing Joke" moment to cement her as a memorable villain.



And my Hawke would have loved to snap her neck as she cackled like a madwoman...

Modifié par BasilKarlo, 13 décembre 2013 - 04:55 .

[Sigma Tauri]

Plaintiff wrote...

You realise that insanity is a thing that sometimes happens to people in real life, yes? That's it's a totally viable and realistic motivation?

lol when is insanity a motivation?

[Star fury]

Confidence born of ignorance. The cycle cannot be broken.

[David7204]

My experience has been that people seriously tend to exaggerate the ambiguity of villains supposedly like this.

Gus Fring is not 'ambiguous.' Caesar's Legion is not 'ambiguous.'

[KC_Prototype]

Well, she did have the humane quality in her but her oppressive ways mix with exposure to the raw red lyrium ****ed her up. Same thing happened to Bartrand and Saren was humane till he died.