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[The Twilight God]

Daemul wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Sovereign's claim that the reapers are infinite is obviously false.

No, it's not. Infinite means having no boundaries or limits, which is true of the Reapers because they are synthetic, they are not bound the way organics are. This is why Shepard in the Control epilogue says,

"Eternal. Infinite. Immortal. The man I was used these words, but only now do I truly understand them."

As a synthetic, Shepard is no longer limited, he can now achieve things organics can only dream of.

Or "Shepard" says that because... well... it is just another Reaper now. Just as deluded as Sovereign.

Being a machine does not make you infinite by any stretch of the word. The Geth were no more limitless than organics. Eternal? Immortal? These words negate even the possibility of destruction. Shepard KNEW this to be untrue. He proved it to be untrue on multiple occasions. But the new reaper with Shepard's voice and memories is just as brainwashed/indoctrinated as all the other Reapers.

[The Twilight God]

spirosz wrote...

Can't replace the spirit, that is all I'm going to say.

But you can replace the Geth spirits?

Organic machines are still machines. Organic matter is made of the same electrons, neutrons and protons as the Geth polymers. The idea that some spirit is linked to a particular configuration of atoms is absurd. Consciousness is consciousness regardless of the vessel. But Bioware reconned the "synthetic destruction" from the script. It just says all technology will be destroyed and all technology clearly wasn't destroyed. Only synthesized material is shown to be effected. The Kid lied.

[rekn2]

The Twilight God wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Can't replace the spirit, that is all I'm going to say.

But you can replace the Geth spirits?

Organic machines are still machines. Organic matter is made of the same electrons, neutrons and protons as the Geth polymers. The idea that some spirit is linked to a particular configuration of atoms is absurd. Consciousness is consciousness regardless of the vessel. But Bioware reconned the "synthetic destruction" from the script. It just says all technology will be destroyed and all technology clearly wasn't destroyed. Only synthesized material is shown to be effected. The Kid lied.

i still have no clarification on that

[Sir DeLoria]

The Twilight God wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Can't replace the spirit, that is all I'm going to say.

But you can replace the Geth spirits?

Organic machines are still machines. Organic matter is made of the same electrons, neutrons and protons as the Geth polymers. The idea that some spirit is linked to a particular configuration of atoms is absurd. Consciousness is consciousness regardless of the vessel. But Bioware reconned the "synthetic destruction" from the script. It just says all technology will be destroyed and all technology clearly wasn't destroyed. Only synthesized material is shown to be effected. The Kid lied.

Synthetics get killed in Destroy, the ending slides confirm that. 

[AlanC9]

Don't bother engaging The Twilight God on the point. Read his sig. This is the guy behind IT-Con.

[Sir DeLoria]

AlanC9 wrote...

Don't bother engaging The Twilight God on the point. Read his sig. This is the guy behind IT-Con.

Oh...oh god...thanks Alan, you just saved me a lot of trouble:mellow:

[rekn2]

its all space magic anyway.

[TigusVidiks]

Necanor wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Don't bother engaging The Twilight God on the point. Read his sig. This is the guy behind IT-Con.

Oh...oh god...thanks Alan, you just saved me a lot of trouble:mellow:

 so what? even if it's the guy behind IT-Con, it's just another guy so unhappy with the actual endings he got, he needs to make up something in his mind to make sense of it all.

[rapscallioness]

I just had to say wow, what a great thread this has been to read. Pretty much read the whole thing. And enjoyed all the different viewpoints and constructive, informative, arguments. Not bickering arguments--at least not yet, Lol--but robust discussion.

One of the best threads I've seen on the ME forums for quite some time.

That is all. Cheers!

[Iakus]

TigusVidiks wrote...

 so what? even if it's the guy behind IT-Con, it's just another guy so unhappy with the actual endings he got, he needs to make up something in his mind to make sense of it all.

Only certain speculations are permitted, dontchaknow?  <_<

[mass perfection]

I honestly believe that, on average, Synthesis and Control supporters have been exposed to more vaccines, fluoride water, TV, gmos, Wi-Fi radiation, and many other IQ-lowering factors throughout their life than Destroy supporters/antienders.

[rekn2]

mass perfection wrote...

I honestly believe that, on average, Synthesis and Control supporters have been exposed to more vaccines, fluoride water, TV, gmos, Wi-Fi radiation, and many other IQ-lowering factors throughout their life than Destroy supporters/antienders.

i think if shep could be informed somehow about what synthesis outcome actually is then it would be the only choice.

[AlanC9]

mass perfection wrote...

I honestly believe that, on average, Synthesis and Control supporters have been exposed to more vaccines, fluoride water, TV, gmos, Wi-Fi radiation, and many other IQ-lowering factors throughout their life than Destroy supporters/antienders.

Have we reached the pointless insult part of the thread yet, or is mass perfection jumping the gun? I don't expect this sort of thing before page 20

[Deathsaurer]

AlanC9 wrote...

Have we reached the pointless insult part of the thread yet, or is mass perfection jumping the gun? I don't expect this sort of thing before page 20

Kinda surprised it didn't happen by page 5 TBH

[dreamgazer]

AlanC9 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

I honestly believe that, on average, Synthesis and Control supporters have been exposed to more vaccines, fluoride water, TV, gmos, Wi-Fi radiation, and many other IQ-lowering factors throughout their life than Destroy supporters/antienders.

Have we reached the pointless insult part of the thread yet, or is mass perfection jumping the gun? I don't expect this sort of thing before page 20

I expect this sort of thing to happen by the second post, if not in the original thread posting itself.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

AlanC9 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

I honestly believe that, on average, Synthesis and Control supporters have been exposed to more vaccines, fluoride water, TV, gmos, Wi-Fi radiation, and many other IQ-lowering factors throughout their life than Destroy supporters/antienders.

Have we reached the pointless insult part of the thread yet, or is mass perfection jumping the gun? I don't expect this sort of thing before page 20

mass perfection is a known troll and has actively been posting 'bait for a while now.

Tells you everything you need to know about this site when thought-provoking threads like the "Synthetic Intelligence" one gets deleted, inexplicably, while obvious trolls like this run free to post their nonsense. Bots gonna bot.

[eyezonlyii]

AlanC9 wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

....and the Geth no matter what state they are in can be rebuilt as well. I know it sounds harsh, but it's easier (more cost efficient really) to replace a synthetic race than an organic one, 

Sure. And the dead humans, etc. can be replaced through standard breeding procedures in a few decades. Even an exterminated race could theoretically be recovered via cloning, unless kakliosaurs are somehow unique.

I'm not quite sure of the point.

YOu're right, technically, they could be. But notice I said more cost efficient. And I was actually talking about after total annihilation and extinction, not just a few dead bodies. Remember the Lazerus projuct took over 4 billion credits for Shepard alone. There is no way the galaxy could afford to ressurect a viable number of humans to repopulate. If the Quarians by themselves can build the Geth race, then I'm sure the galatic races can replace them after the war.

[TigusVidiks]

eyezonlyii wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

....and the Geth no matter what state they are in can be rebuilt as well. I know it sounds harsh, but it's easier (more cost efficient really) to replace a synthetic race than an organic one, 

Sure. And the dead humans, etc. can be replaced through standard breeding procedures in a few decades. Even an exterminated race could theoretically be recovered via cloning, unless kakliosaurs are somehow unique.

I'm not quite sure of the point.

YOu're right, technically, they could be. But notice I said more cost efficient. And I was actually talking about after total annihilation and extinction, not just a few dead bodies. Remember the Lazerus projuct took over 4 billion credits for Shepard alone. There is no way the galaxy could afford to ressurect a viable number of humans to repopulate. If the Quarians by themselves can build the Geth race, then I'm sure the galatic races can replace them after the war.

I think that misses the main point.  the geth are sentient and self aware. And you (as well as several others) are still thinking of them as buildable tools. While you can certainly rebuild their hardware, you can't rebuild their "soul". Their mind, their memories, their experiences and perspectives, their interactions with other species and the learning they got from it, would all be lost.  The Catalyst tells you that the geth will be destroyed (with all the tech based on reaper technology), but soon organics would build NEW synthetics. So, basically, saying you can rebuild the geth, is either false, or still looking at them as non-sentient tools.
You can certainly rebuild their platforms(the robots) and make them functional. But they would not be Geth anymore.
You would need to make new programs to run those platforms, that would not have all the data and improvements the Geth made into themselves (Geth are programs), since no one in the galaxy knows how they did it, or fully understands how complex Geth programs are.

Modifié par TigusVidiks, 18 décembre 2013 - 03:37 .

[Daemul]

Tigus is correct, if you want to see the perfect example of this kill Legion in the Suicide Mission and then go and meet a rebuilt version of him in ME3 without the memories, experiences and perspectives he had gained from the time he first left the Geth to find Shepard to the time he joined the Normandy in ME2.

It's like talking to a totally different person, the rebuilt version of him even questions why an organic was allowed to choose whether the heretics were rewritten or destroyed and that it was a mistake to entrust a decision of that magnitude into the hands of an organic. That was when I realised thay the Legion I knew was truly dead.

The Quarians may be able to build new machines, but they will be nothing like the Geth.

[Wayning_Star]

Daemul wrote...

Tigus is correct, if you want to see the perfect example of this kill Legion in the Suicide Mission and then go and meet a rebuilt version of him in ME3 without the memories, experiences and perspectives he had gained from the time he first left the Geth to find Shepard to the time he joined the Normandy in ME2.

It's like talking to a totally different person, the rebuilt version of him even questions why an organic was allowed to choose whether the heretics were rewritten or destroyed and that it was a mistake to entrust a decision of that magnitude into the hands of an organic. That was when I realised thay the Legion I knew was truly dead.

The Quarians may be able to build new machines, but they will be nothing like the Geth.

almost seems like a warning of how the synthetics take their destruction from organics... not well

( I wonder if their rebuilt units would remember it or take the news of such very well.. then add evolution and survival of the fittest/competition,etc to the equation. All that's needed then is time....)

[KaiserShep]

TigusVidiks wrote...

I think that misses the main point.  the geth are sentient and self aware. And you (as well as several others) are still thinking of them as buildable tools. While you can certainly rebuild their hardware, you can't rebuild their "soul". Their mind, their memories, their experiences and perspectives, their interactions with other species and the learning they got from it, would all be lost.  The Catalyst tells you that the geth will be destroyed (with all the tech based on reaper technology), but soon organics would build NEW synthetics. So, basically, saying you can rebuild the geth, is either false, or still looking at them as non-sentient tools.
You can certainly rebuild their platforms(the robots) and make them functional. But they would not be Geth anymore.
You would need to make new programs to run those platforms, that would not have all the data and improvements the Geth made into themselves (Geth are programs), since no one in the galaxy knows how they did it, or fully understands how complex Geth programs are.

Yeah, I think that some simply don't want to come to terms with the choice that destroying the reapers does, in fact, wipe out the synthetics completely, and that no matter what you do, they cannot be restored to what they were before, even if perfect facsimiles of their hardware and original software can be remade.

Of course, I'm still not convinced that this would necessarily lead to the new synthetics being necessarily hostile, but they will be completely new characters with completely new perspectives nonetheless.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 18 décembre 2013 - 04:11 .