711 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

She was (apparently) a sentient VI before the Reaper parts.

She did not become EDI as we know her, though, until after them.

*edit* -- see the quote by dreamgazer.

A sentient VI is an AI.  EDI was an AI born of purely human technology.

She was further augmented with tech from Soveriegn.

Edit:  There is absoultely no reason why EDI couldn't survive "diminish, go into the West, and remain Galadriel EDI" to borrow a phrase

Modifié par iakus, 19 décembre 2013 - 07:39 .

[essarr71]

@Alan: There was the crucible upgrade you can get that says its able to find every Reaper in the galaxy.

Modifié par essarr71, 19 décembre 2013 - 07:38 .

[KaiserShep]

essarr71 wrote...

@Alan: There was the crucible upgrade you can get that says its able to find every Reaper in the galaxy.

It's unfortunate that the interferometric array exists as nothing more than a random item collected during scanning, otherwise it could have been interesting.

[AlanC9]

essarr71 wrote...

@Alan: There was the crucible upgrade you can get that says its able to find every Reaper in the galaxy.

Good point.

[CronoDragoon]

essarr71 wrote...

@Alan: There was the crucible upgrade you can get that says its able to find every Reaper in the galaxy.

I missed this. Combined with what Weekes was saying - that EDI should be destroyed too since she has Reaper code - it's starting to look like it really does work by targeting Reaper code, and whoever wrote the "targets all synthetics" line kinda screwed up everyone's interpretation.

.....But doesn't that mean Shepard has Reaper code, too?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

CronoDragoon wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

@Alan: There was the crucible upgrade you can get that says its able to find every Reaper in the galaxy.

I missed this. Combined with what Weekes was saying - that EDI should be destroyed too since she has Reaper code - it's starting to look like it really does work by targeting Reaper code, and whoever wrote the "targets all synthetics" line kinda screwed up everyone's interpretation.

.....But doesn't that mean Shepard has Reaper code, too?

EDI's Reaper parts are hardware, though, not code.

In that case, though, the geth should really be immune to the effects.

But personally, I don't subscribe to the theory it targets Reaper code. I think (in High EMS) it's a re-set wave.

[Eryri]

CronoDragoon wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

@Alan: There was the crucible upgrade you can get that says its able to find every Reaper in the galaxy.

I missed this. Combined with what Weekes was saying - that EDI should be destroyed too since she has Reaper code - it's starting to look like it really does work by targeting Reaper code, and whoever wrote the "targets all synthetics" line kinda screwed up everyone's interpretation.

.....But doesn't that mean Shepard has Reaper code, too?

Possibly. It depends on what was in those 'black boxes' that Miranda was given for project Lazarus. Cerberus was experimenting with husks back in ME1, and Reaper tech is capable of reanimating corpses.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The question is does Shepard have genuine Reaper ™ parts or parts designed from Reaper designs? There is a difference. The beam would seek and destroy the genuine parts while leaving the others alone. Kind of like how the neutron bomb kills only military personnel and equipment and leaves civilians and civilian infrastructure alone.

[The Twilight God]

TigusVidiks wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

TigusVidiks wrote...

Necanor wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Don't bother engaging The Twilight God on the point. Read his sig. This is the guy behind IT-Con.

Oh...oh god...thanks Alan, you just saved me a lot of trouble:mellow:

 so what? even if it's the guy behind IT-Con, it's just another guy so unhappy with the actual endings he got, he needs to make up something in his mind to make sense of it all.

I haven't made anything up.

The Kid says nothing about synthetics being destroyed. If you claim otherwise YOU are making things up. Now you're welcome to believe whatever you wish and interpret what you see however you'd like. But it is just your belief. Just like my views are my beliefs. However, I can back my belief with evidence.

at 07:32

See it again.

" It is now in your power to destroy us. But be warned, others will be destroyed as well. The crucible will not descriminate. All synthetics will be targeted. "

Funny how you cherry picked that conversation seeing as the Kid goes on to define "synthetics" as "technology you rely on". Going so far as to state that Shepard is part synthetic. I.e. the Kid is not talking about A.I. when it says "synthetic". It's talking about technology period.

You shoot yourself in the foot here. Your interpretation is based on pre-EC material which was retconned.

Here's the entire quote (with the parts you want to ignore included):

Kid: But be warned. Others will be destroyed as well. The Crucible will not discriminate. All synthetics will be targeted. Even you are partly synthetic."

Shepard: What exactly will happen?

Kid: Your Crucible Device appears to be largely intact. However, the effects of the blast will not be constrained to the Reapers. Technology you relay on will be affected, but those who survive should have little difficulty repairing the damage. There will still be loses, but no more than has already been lost.

Shepard asks the Kid what will happen and its tell him what will happen. Now I need you to tell me where in it's reply of what will happen does it state the Geth will all perish? At what point does the Kid state the AIs specifically will be targeted in reply to "What exactly will happen"?

When I beat Mass Effect 3 it was after the EC so I never saw the original endings at that point. I later saw them (or should I say it) on YouTube and cringed. Anyway, when I heard the description of Destroy I thought the Crucible was going to bomb everyone back to the Stone Age, technologically speaking. I thought there would be no more computers, ships, medical equipment, electricity, etc. Now if this occurred the Geth would be included. So, yes, on that basis the demise or at least damaging of the Geth was assumed by association. However, no technological apocalypse occurs and by extension no Geth destruction. Again, AI's were never singled out. Just technology in a general sense. 

The only reason you are singling out AIs is due to pre-EC bias. You cannot rationally argue the case for the Geth's destruction outside of pre-EC dialog which has been intentionally retconned.

[The Twilight God]

iakus wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

The only "evidence" I see here is the lack of a slide or cutscene specifically showing dead geth. Everything else is hugely speculative. Things like focusing on reaper-derived hardware or code or anything of the sort is purely a fan-made theory, so that doesn't reconcile EDI's demise. If one wishes to believe that the geth survived and the catalyst lied, that's fine, but this should come with acceptance of the fact that this is merely head-canon.

Patricks Weekes said they all didn't want to kill EDI, but they felt they had to because she was made from Reaper parts. As opposed to saying she died simply because she as an AI.

http://social.biowar...ndex/11154234/1 

-Why [can't] EDI survive the Destroy ending?

We argued a lot about this, I said that she was made of Reapertech and should therefore be destroyed[...]

Which completely ignores that EDI was sentient before her Reaper upgrades (as were the geth).  Proving her death was simply an arbitrary consequence dreamed up to add yet more tragedy.

::facepalm::

It ignores nothing.

1. EDI's blue box is made of Reapertech.
2. Her consciousness it housed within physical Reapertech materials from Soveriegn.
3. That reaper material blue box can be presumed to have disintegrated like the husks and reaper "terminators".

So EDI died. Make sense?

1. The Geth have no reaper materials in their construction.
2. The Geth are not and have never been Reapertech; Not before or after the code upgrade.

So the Geth (along with all other non-reapertech) didn't go bye-bye. Are we clear now?

I don't know how much simpler that can get for you.

Now, I'd agree that it comes off as more "added tragedy" as you put it because they could have just said her parts were non-synthesized material, like the reaper dreadnaughts. That way she could have lived.

On the other hand, it makes sense that it was reaperized material. I'd assume the blue box is a computational device in which case Sovereign's brain would make sense as the material for the storage medium. What other part of a reaper would you harvest for a blue box? For instance, It wouldn't make any sense to harvest metals from a "thanix beam" section or a mass effect drive to make a blue box. This implies that TIM had to know that Reapers were "terminators" since the end of ME1. Granted, they could say other processors and such made of conventional alloys were located throughout the dreadnaught for various tasks... *shrug*. Weekes let EDI down with his lack of vision:)

Hazegurl wrote...

True. I honestly can't see how EDI could have died. She could have left Eva's body as she was the Normady AI and  was simply controlling Eva.  

EDI was always the blue box. She was sort of remote controlling the robot. However, I guess a "lesser EDI" could have survived hypothetically. It seem as though the separated self was semi autonomous if you take her to that one Geth base mission with the comms interference.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 19 décembre 2013 - 10:50 .

[rekn2]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The question is does Shepard have genuine Reaper ™ parts or parts designed from Reaper designs? There is a difference. The beam would seek and destroy the genuine parts while leaving the others alone. Kind of like how the neutron bomb kills only military personnel and equipment and leaves civilians and civilian infrastructure alone.

how do you know? you the whitch in charge of the space magic?

[rekn2]

wth are you talking about? "reaperized material"? the universe has a finite amount of matter. anything the reapers could do people could do. drop the pseudo religious crap

[The Twilight God]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

But it is just your belief. Just like my views are my beliefs. However, I can back my belief with evidence.

The absense of evidence is not evidence.

Correct.

But people are missing the point. There is no rationale to presume the Geth are destroyed. They would have me prove that the Geth are alive when I have no basis to think they aren't. No different than me demanding you prove the Volus or Drell are still alive when you have no reason to think they are dead. It would be like assuming a character died every time they were off camera and calling my assertion that they are probably safe and sound head canon. Pure absurdity. The burden of proof is on those claiming the Geth, Drell or Volus are dead.

Does this make sense to you?

[Sir DeLoria]

EDI's name is on the memorial wall if you choose destroy. Why would the Geth not be eliminated by the big red wave?

[The Twilight God]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The question is does Shepard have genuine Reaper ™ parts or parts designed from Reaper designs? There is a difference. The beam would seek and destroy the genuine parts while leaving the others alone. Kind of like how the neutron bomb kills only military personnel and equipment and leaves civilians and civilian infrastructure alone.

From what I've gathered Project Lazarus has nothing to do with Reapertech. It's why I don't understand why they didn't just place Shepard in a coma with severe injuries. Why kill him and bring him back from the dead with some Godlike technology that is never explained.

Unless to establish the existence of the spirit. That's why I thought reapers were extra dimension spirits who used the dreadnaughts to interact with out physical word and need the organic paste to use as a conduit between spirit and machine. Given the whole absorbing the essense of a species diatribe I assumed they had to have a metaphysical quality. Perhaps as gods, they influences the dreams of humanoids long ago and got them to create their physical forms or were the humanoids and downloaded themselves. That way Soveriegn could be truthful when he says they are infinite. Like the Ori from Stargate, but unable to directly affect the physical plane. Oh, well...

Modifié par The Twilight God, 19 décembre 2013 - 11:18 .

[The Twilight God]

rekn2 wrote...

wth are you talking about? "reaperized material"? the universe has a finite amount of matter. anything the reapers could do people could do. drop the pseudo religious crap

The Reapers (the actual "terminators") and husks are made of organic/synthetic hybrid material which I call "reaperized material". Anything made of this substance would be Reapertech. In the Synthesis ending, for instance, all life becomes "reapertech" as if it is hybridized. Perhaps the Destroy ray negates the atomic bonds between the synthetic and organic parts causing disintegration. Just a thought.

[The Twilight God]

Necanor wrote...

EDI's name is on the memorial wall if you choose destroy. Why would the Geth not be eliminated by the big red wave?

Read the thread. EDI is made of reapertech. That's why she died as stated by writer Patrick Weekes.

Geth are not reapertech. Ergo, they are just programs in any given plain old tech, which did not go boom.

Why would they be eliminated if no other regular tech was?

[ImaginaryMatter]

The Twilight God wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

But it is just your belief. Just like my views are my beliefs. However, I can back my belief with evidence.

The absense of evidence is not evidence.

Correct.

But people are missing the point. There is no rationale to presume the Geth are destroyed. They would have me prove that the Geth are alive when I have no basis to think they aren't. No different than me demanding you prove the Volus or Drell are still alive when you have no reason to think they are dead. It would be like assuming a character died every time they were off camera and calling my assertion that they are probably safe and sound head canon. Pure absurdity. The burden of proof is on those claiming the Geth, Drell or Volus are dead.

Does this make sense to you?

The slideshow shows the Geth alive and ticking in both other endings, that coupled with what the kid says and the thematic/symbollic/whatever importance of the Destroy choice all adds up to dead Geth.

If we're talking about evidence as in the technical aspects there is none, most of what the kid says on this front is either nonsensensical or ambiguous (it can't even keep its definition of 'Synthetic' straight). And since next to nothing is actually known about the Crucible and even less about the actual mechanisms of the ending, any 'evidence' is conjecture or headcanon.

[AlanC9]

Isn't this argument just watered-down IT? It's also Bioware supposedly making a deliberately misleading ending, except for much lower stakes this time.

I miss the real thing.

Modifié par AlanC9, 19 décembre 2013 - 11:43 .

[Sir DeLoria]

The Twilight God wrote...

Necanor wrote...

EDI's name is on the memorial wall if you choose destroy. Why would the Geth not be eliminated by the big red wave?

Read the thread. EDI is made of reapertech. That's why she died as stated by writer Patrick Weekes.

Geth are not reapertech. Ergo, they are just programs in any given plain old tech, which did not go boom.

Why would they be eliminated if no other regular tech was?

They became reapertech as soon as they got upgraded with the reper code.

[rekn2]

The Twilight God wrote...

rekn2 wrote...

wth are you talking about? "reaperized material"? the universe has a finite amount of matter. anything the reapers could do people could do. drop the pseudo religious crap

The Reapers (the actual "terminators") and husks are made of organic/synthetic hybrid material which I call "reaperized material". Anything made of this substance would be Reapertech. In the Synthesis ending, for instance, all life becomes "reapertech" as if it is hybridized. Perhaps the Destroy ray negates the atomic bonds between the synthetic and organic parts causing disintegration. Just a thought.

what im saying is it isnt reaper specific. if they can make something so can we. there is nothing inherantly "reaper" in anything except an actual reaper...

[Deathsaurer]

Everything is Reaper tech. Badly copied, watered down Reaper tech. It's all based off the mass relays.

[JasonShepard]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

The burden of proof is on those claiming the Geth, Drell or Volus are dead.

The slideshow shows the Geth alive and ticking in both other endings, that coupled with what the kid says and the thematic/symbollic/whatever importance of the Destroy choice all adds up to dead Geth.

Furthermore, if you let the Geth win at Rannoch, and pick Control, you see the Geth on Rannoch (apparently socialising with the Shepard-controlled-Reapers).

If you let the Geth win at Rannoch and pick Destroy, you see an abandoned Rannoch.

I'd say the implication is fairly clear.

[General TSAR]

How can something be dead when it wasn't even alive in the first place?

[dreamgazer]

Guess BioWare should've point-blank depicted the geth fizzling out of existence.