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[Sir DeLoria]

The Twilight God wrote...

How are they repaired quickly? Nobody knows how they work. Does everyone from every corner of the galaxy magical figure it out at the same time all of the sudden when they couldn't figure it out for the past thousands of years? Even if they fix one they still have to FTL to the next one to repair it. And on and on. Destroy cannot end well overnight. Things will be rough for the immediate future. They have no infrastructure and ruined worlds. Of course, you can ignore established lore and pretend it can all work out overnight. But you're not going to win any argument concerning the logistics of repairing the relay network even if they did know how to fix them, much less considering the fact that they don't know how. Destroy is just the lesser of 3 evils. But it still sucks.

If the Reapers could be trusted Synthesis or Control are objectively better than Destroy.

If a device as colossal and complicated as the Crucible could be built from scrap within such a short time frame I'm sure the combined science and engineering teams on the various homeworlds will be able to repair the barely damaged relays within no time. The ending slides clearly state, that the repair of the important relays was accomplished in a short time period.

Of course the far out, isolated colonies are pretty screwed.

Modifié par Necanor, 21 décembre 2013 - 10:38 .

[The Twilight God]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

"All of the epilogue slides involve a narrator speaking about what they foresee will happen, want to happen, hope will happen or plan to make happen. The slides do not actually occur in real-time. Nothing in the slides actually occur in-game (CG.rendered models,etc.). The endings don't happen in the future. The endings are in the present. No time travel takes place. The EC slides are intended to placate angry fans by showing them pretty pictures. Ignore the slides and just listen to what the narrator actually says. The narrator does not describe what is on screen. The narrator cannot know if any of that stuff would happen as the narrator is speaking from the perspective of a person in the present. It is merely an individual talking about their hopes for the future in a general manner. No direct mention of krogan babies, geth-quarian peace, Jack becoming the headmaster of Grissom, Miranda becoming president of Earth, or anything else of that sort. Bioware counts on people to see what they want to see. Many players assume everything in the slides is an actual depiction of the future. There is no evidence of this being true. There cannot be as the endings take place in the present."

Are you not familiar with how montages generally work?

Also, here is a thought exercise to explain why what you are doing is head canon:

Describe the mechanics of the Destroy ending, citing evidence from the game and your own assumptions when appropriate.

Are you saying the Geth are definately alive or you believe they are alive? Or are you saying they're fate is purposely left a mystery or that you believe it's supposed to be a mystery?

A montage doesn't work in any particular way.

mon·tage (mn-täzh, mô-)
n.
1.
a. A single pictorial composition made by juxtaposing or superimposing many pictures or designs.
b. The art or process of making such a composition.
2.
a. A relatively rapid succession of different shots in a movie.
b. The juxtaposition of such successive shots as a cinematic technique.
3. A composite of closely juxtaposed elements: a montage of voices on an audiotape.
[i]tr.v. mon·taged, mon·tag·ing, mon·tag·es
To use or incorporate in a montage.

As the term is typically used in regards to movies, the ending of ME3 was not a montage. There was no linear progression from one point of time to another. Like fitting the training of the Karate Kid into 2 minutes of clips.

I'm saying I have no reason to believe the Geth are all died. Just like I have no reason to believe the Volus are all dead. It's that simple. I believe the Geth are alive because I have no reason to believe otherwise. Just like I have no reason to believe the Volus all died.

I believe the Geth are intentionally left ambiguous in Destroy. Originally their death was supposed to be a deterrent to Destroy, to sway people over to blue and green. When they retconned the Crucible targeting AIs in the EC they put no Geth slides in the keep that sentiment alive. They now have options in regard to the Geth moving forward vs. definitively removing them pre-EC. Granted, given the way the endings worked pre-EC you couldn't really say definitively that they all died. The Kid could have been lying. The original endings gave no info as to what happened really. Everyone assumed almost EVERYTHING and EVERYONE was destroyed due to the relay explosions. Mac Walters confirmed this apocalyptic ending which makes me think they didn't intend to continue forward with another ME game initially. Maybe EA changed their minds

[The Twilight God]

Necanor wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

How are they repaired quickly? Nobody knows how they work. Does everyone from every corner of the galaxy magical figure it out at the same time all of the sudden when they couldn't figure it out for the past thousands of years? Even if they fix one they still have to FTL to the next one to repair it. And on and on. Destroy cannot end well overnight. Things will be rough for the immediate future. They have no infrastructure and ruined worlds. Of course, you can ignore established lore and pretend it can all work out overnight. But you're not going to win any argument concerning the logistics of repairing the relay network even if they did know how to fix them, much less considering the fact that they don't know how. Destroy is just the lesser of 3 evils. But it still sucks.

If the Reapers could be trusted Synthesis or Control are objectively better than Destroy.

If a device as colossal and complicated as the Crucible could be built from scrap within such a short time frame I'm sure the combined science and engineering teams on the various homeworlds will be able to repair the barely damaged relays within no time. The ending slides clearly state, that the repair of the important relays was accomplished in a short time period.

Of course the far out, isolated colonies are pretty screwed.

The Crucible had instructions.

Barely? The rings that make to mass effecting and whatnot blew apart and drifted into the cold blackness of space. Then you have the CG that shows the main body broken too. Chose whatever nightmare scenario you like. The both equal no relays. These "various homeworlds" have had thousands of years to study the relays and they couldn't figure it out. The slides don't say anything. Hackett makes a bs claim about what he'd like to see done. Good luck on that, Hackett. But as far as it actually happening in short time? Nope. Like I said they still have to FTL to each relay. Even if the fixed the one they still have to travel via FTL to fix the next. So no matter what the relays are affectively fubar even if they could fix one quickly because the one on the other side is still broke. It is impossible to get around this. Patrick Weekes tried to handwave this on twitter and say FTL is now super fast and the relays weren't ever necessary anyway. LOL!! When the codex uses the term "centuries" in regard to FTL travel.

The writers F'd up on this one. There was really no reason to even damage the relays in high EMS. I don't know why they kept that idiocy in the ending.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 21 décembre 2013 - 11:04 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

The Twilight God wrote...

What is your point?

That slide shows a desolate Rannoch with a dead Quarian. It has NOTHING obvious to do with Geth .Notice how on Tuchanka slides they actually have dead Krogran? You know, to show it's a slide about dead krogan...

The picture is about the desolation of Rannoch, not just the death of the Quarians. It only appears if Destroy is chosen, in the other endings (where only the Geth survive) they are shown to have rebuilt Rannoch. So the question is why do the Geth rebuild Rannoch in the other endings but not destroy? The most likely answer is because they have been destroyed themselves.

Why would Geth be on Rannoch? They live in space? Only the synthesized geth live on the planet with the Qurians.

I have no idea why the Geth are on Rannoch when it's just them in the Control and Synthesis endings. But they are clearly seen standing on a planet (you can see sky in the image plus there's a Reaper in the backgorund), and there is Quarian archetecture suggesting that the planet is Rannoch. Again I have no idea why they are on Rannoch, but they are there.

You're trying to compare the lack of a slide in one ending to the existence of a slide in another. That's where you've gone wrong. Again, Destroy has no Geth slides. The Geth are a mystery in Destroy just like some other races are in all endings. No matter how much you want to label something with no trace of Geth as a Geth slide you would be wrong. Fact: There is no slide with anything Geth related in Destroy. Deal with it.

I am not talking about a lack of a slide. Much like how the slides with Jack either teaching or mourning her students are equal, and the one that shows up is based on the choice made at the Grissom mission; the DRS, the Geth only Control, and the Geth only Synthesis are also equal, and the one that shows up is based on the ending choice. If you get to the Catalyst, save, then pick Destroy you will get DRS; if you then load that save and pick Control, you will get the image of the Geth standing on a planet instead of DRS.

The DRS will never show up in the other endings because (just like how Jack cannot be both teaching and morning her students), the Geth cannot be rebuilding and not rebuilding Rannoch. Again, DRS is the Destroy equivalent of the Geth only Control and Synthesis choices. So, what is your reason that the Geth decide to not rebuild Rannoch in the Destory ending, other than they are not dead?

That architecture does not mean it's on Rannoch. That is their shared architecture. It's nothing like the stuff on Tali's recruit mission which is the only Qurian specific architecture we see. At the end of ME3 the Qurians have no such architecture. Rannoch is wild land with no cities. If the Qurians are dead that same architecture exists in the Control slide for Geth. So the idea that it is "Quarian architecture" is incorrect.

That's because Tali's loyalty mission take place in the interior of a ship, I'm talking about the exterior of buildings. And generally buildings don't look like ships. The buildings seen in the Quarian/Geth slides have the same style as the building in Priority: Rannoch.

Do the Geth maintain Rannoch in Control or Synthesis without the Qurians being there? I don't know where they are in blue or green if the Qurians die (or are there in the case of blue). The "sky" makes me think it's a station in space with no atmosphere in conjunction with the fact that they state the live in stations. I don't know. But there is nothing to make me think it's definitively Rannoch. You're taking a baseless assumption and asserting it as matter of fact.

...are you suggesting that the sky is the interior of a station or that the Geth live on the outside of the station? And, ya, I'm assuming it's Rannoch because the buildings in the slides have the same style as the buildings only seen on Priority: Rannoch. Is it possible that the Geth built buildings they didn't need on other planets. Ya, but the implication that the planet is in fact Rannoch is very obvious.

You keep comparing a slide to the lack of a slide. You seem to be operating under the assumption that I believe you, the player, are intended to definitively know the fate of the Geth in Destroy. This is a mistake on your part. I believe the writers left the Geth a mystery so that people could continue pre-EC mentality and assume their demise. You're approaching this as if I'm just saying that Bioware definitively wanted to portray them as alive a well without a doubt. They reconned the Kid's AI comments for a reason. It could be to mantain blue and green's viability vs red. It could also be to keep their options open for future games. As they left it they can say the Geth lived or died. Who really knows? But regardless of their ultimate intent the fact remains that there is no evidence of the Geth's demise. The fact remains that in Destroy there is no Geth slide. In Destroy the Geth are a mystery.

Why would the writers change the state of the Geth from definitely dead, to purposely ambiguous? The EC was never intended to change the ending only provide additional 'clarity'. What you seem to be suggesting is that they did change the ending and took away clarity. Having the Geth, an AI race, survive Destory completely changes the nature of that ending.

Edit: Ugh, sorry, I wrote this during a particularly bad insomnia, medication driven splurge. Looking abck on it now I don't think it's going to help; it's just a bunch of nitpicky assumptions about subtlety, symbolism, implication, etc. None of that really matters. I'll just leave this:

There isn't a need for an image of dead Geth in the Destroy ending slides because they are noticeably absent. By noticeably I mean the Geth differ from races like the Drell and Volus as the robots were a much larger part of the story and all three games. The fact that they never show up in either of version of the Rannoch Destroy slides means something must be keeping them from showing up, it's not like they were off buying milk when the photographer showed up. The most likely cause given the nature of the Destroy option means they are dead.

Modifié par ImaginaryMatter, 21 décembre 2013 - 06:33 .

[Hazegurl]

The Twilight God wrote...
You're confusing "tech" (tangible physical component) with code (ambiguous non-physical idea).

No I'm not. I accept the possibility that the red wave targeted both code and hardware, perhaps in different ways. In destroy, the Reaper's hardware(bodies) were still intact. They simply ceased to function and fell. I'm sure the same thing happened to EDI and the Geth since they accepted/made of some form of Reaper technology. This includes the code. 

So attacking code is out of the question.

Prove that the Crucible did not attack the code. Nothing you wrote proves anything as you are using irl and current technology standards. The crucible was built by advanced civilizations for million or perhaps billions of years, each adding something from their time (a time that is still far more advance than ours) to its design. The last being the Protheans who believed in destroying all AIs.

Furthermore, given that it was designed before the Geth (upgraded or not) ever existed it certainly wouldn't have the programming to go after them anyway.

 Like I said above, the Crucible itself was created thousands of times during  Reaper invasions by people who had already created AIs and had unresolved issues with them. It doesn't take much to believe that one of those cycles added something to target all AI while leaving non AI machines active.  The Geth most likely made it worse by uploading a Reaper code into their systems. There is nothing the Geth had that didn't already exist in other cycles.

I also want to add that Saren possessed a grafted Geth arm and it didn't take much for Sovereign to control him completely with his upgrades. It was pretty much proven back in ME1 that Geth hardware can be affected by Reaper tech, even remotely.

Modifié par Hazegurl, 21 décembre 2013 - 01:04 .

[JasonShepard]

I find the idea of a weapon that can target code... difficult for my Willing Suspension of Disbelief to handle. It's equivalent, in my mind, to a fire in a library that only burns certain words.

The weapon would have to read every bit of code in the galaxy, check to see whether it is based on Reaper code, and only then destroy the code. This is regardless of the hardware that the code exists upon.

It's the 'read every bit of code in the galaxy' bit of that process that bugs me. That's on a similar level to 'edit every bit of DNA in the galaxy'... which I suppose the Crucible canonically can do, but that also breaks my Willing Suspension of Disbelief so... *shrugs*

For Destroy, I prefer to think of it as a blast wave, akin to an EMP, that destroys all code in the galaxy irrespective of who wrote it. Which fits better, considering that the Catalyst says nothing about the Crucible targeting Reaper code and does talk about it targeting all synthetics. Well, it fits better for me at least.

[AlexMBrennan]

If a device as colossal and complicated as the Crucible could be built from scrap within such a short time frame I'm sure the combined science and engineering teams on the various homeworlds will be able to repair the barely damaged relays within no time.

Have you heard of the idea of a "manual"? Conveniently we happened to have instructions for building a Crucible doomsday weapon but we don't have instructions for mass relays.

[JasonShepard]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

If a device as colossal and complicated as the Crucible could be built from scrap within such a short time frame I'm sure the combined science and engineering teams on the various homeworlds will be able to repair the barely damaged relays within no time.

Have you heard of the idea of a "manual"? Conveniently we happened to have instructions for building a Crucible doomsday weapon but we don't have instructions for mass relays.

Besides whatever we can recover from Ilos or Vendetta, that is. And constructing the Crucible will have taught Mass Effect's scientists and engineers a fair bit about related technology.

But, on the other hand, we don't know what the extent of the damage to the Mass Relays is. If, say, the Crucible wave used up all the eezo in every relay, then I can forsee a LOT of mining being needed to repair the network. However, if it just knocked a few rings out of place, and broke off some arms, then the network might be reparable in a matter of years.

There is, of course, still the problem of flying to the far end of each relay pair the slow way. Because of that, I'd be seriously surprised if the Relay network took less than a year to repair without Reaper assistance...

[KaiserShep]

Necanor wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

How are they repaired quickly? Nobody knows how they work. Does everyone from every corner of the galaxy magical figure it out at the same time all of the sudden when they couldn't figure it out for the past thousands of years? Even if they fix one they still have to FTL to the next one to repair it. And on and on. Destroy cannot end well overnight. Things will be rough for the immediate future. They have no infrastructure and ruined worlds. Of course, you can ignore established lore and pretend it can all work out overnight. But you're not going to win any argument concerning the logistics of repairing the relay network even if they did know how to fix them, much less considering the fact that they don't know how. Destroy is just the lesser of 3 evils. But it still sucks.

If the Reapers could be trusted Synthesis or Control are objectively better than Destroy.

If a device as colossal and complicated as the Crucible could be built from scrap within such a short time frame I'm sure the combined science and engineering teams on the various homeworlds will be able to repair the barely damaged relays within no time. The ending slides clearly state, that the repair of the important relays was accomplished in a short time period.

Of course the far out, isolated colonies are pretty screwed.

In the end, things like established lore don't matter too much, because it's all potentially subject to being tossed out when convenient. Of course, this creates lots of problems when discussing things like fixing the mass relays, because we expect the lore on the relays to remain exactly the same as the writers massively retcon the entire ending. The Citadel is made of the exact same material as the relays, which was previously described as "unknown" in the codex, yet it's repaired anyway. How and why don't seem to matter. It just happens. I consider the very fact that the relays' rupturing does not totally obliterate each and every system containing a mass relay to be a huge inconsistency in itself, given what we learn in Arrival. They should not have bothered with the relays even breaking in any high EMS ending, because now it's a matter of arguing authorial intent and lore and whether or not the authors even care about the latter.

Let's take a small example where something pointed out in the codex, which is used as an examplanation for something we experience during gameplay, is flatly ignored for sake of having some kind of dramatic effect: the banshee's biotic implosion. According to the codex, banshees leave no remains upon time of death, as their biotics cause them to implode. Yet, despite this, Falere walks us over to a dead banshee so she can show us exactly what the Ardat Yakshi are being turned into.

Heck forget about multiplayer. That's pretty much a rule-of-cool circus. The very existence of Awakened Collectors and front line volus soldiers is proof enough that lore is about as malleable as Play-Doh.

As for the Crucible, let's consider for a moment the sheer size of this thing compared to the Citadel itself. The Citadel is about 40 something kilometers long. The Crucible, big as it is, must be a few kilometers itself if we're going to take its relative scale seriously. Despite the infrastructure falling, and planet-based manufacturing bases being cut off during the invasion, somehow the Alliance had access to spacefaring manufacturing units capable of assembling this gigantic thing in the depths of space in less than a few months' time.  How? Who the hell knows. It just happens.

Back to the subject of the relays, there's this little tidbit in the wiki:

The relays are made of an unknown but incredibly resilient material, the same material that the Citadel
is built from, and are protected by a quantum shield that renders them
nearly impervious to damage by locking their structure in place at the
subatomic level. They are even capable of surviving a supernova's wake
without being damaged.

This makes me wonder if the events of Arrival should even be possible if this was to be taken seriously.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 21 décembre 2013 - 04:21 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Besides whatever we can recover from Ilos or Vendetta, that is

What makes you think that either had mass relay schematics? By the same logic MLP contains blueprints for nuclear weapons because the USA has nuclear weapons.

And constructing the Crucible will have taught Mass Effect's scientists and engineers a fair bit about related technology.

What makes you think that mass relays use similar technology to the Crucible? We literally know nothing about how either of these things work.

[KaiserShep]

I imagine that some kind of data on the relays would be necessary to conjure up a miniature prototype. As for the tech of the Crucible, the only thing we do know is that it utilizes eezo, since it channels dark energy. But then, every damn thing in Mass Effect does that. Traynor's toothbrush could be the key to rebuilding the relays. It saved the Normandy, after all.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 21 décembre 2013 - 04:25 .

[JasonShepard]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Besides whatever we can recover from Ilos or Vendetta, that is

What makes you think that either had mass relay schematics? By the same logic MLP contains blueprints for nuclear weapons because the USA has nuclear weapons.

I'd agree with that analogy if you'd said "A random USA government building might contain blueprints for nuclear weapons because the USA has nuclear weapons."

The Conduit in ME1 demonstrates that the Protheans had a decent knowledge of how Mass Relays work. If that research survives, Ilos would be a good place to start looking.

Vendetta was intended to pass useful knowledge onto the Asari - only problem was that they never figured out how to switch the VI on. I'd consider research on the Mass Relays to be "useful knowledge."

I'm not saying that either of these will have nice, laid-out "This is how you build a Mass Relay" manuals. But I think there's a decent chance they'll have *some* information related to Mass Relays.

And constructing the Crucible will have taught Mass Effect's scientists and engineers a fair bit about related technology.

What makes you think that mass relays use similar technology to the Crucible? We literally know nothing about how either of these things work.

We know that they both use eezo, and we know that they work together. That's enough to assume some similarity of technology, even if not much.

Modifié par JasonShepard, 21 décembre 2013 - 04:28 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

KaiserShep wrote...

In the end, things like established lore don't matter too much, because it's all potentially subject to being tossed out when convenient. Of course, this creates lots of problems when discussing things like fixing the mass relays, because we expect the lore on the relays to remain exactly the same as the writers massively retcon the entire ending. The Citadel is made of the exact same material as the relays, which was previously described as "unknown" in the codex, yet it's repaired anyway. How and why don't seem to matter. It just happens. I consider the very fact that the relays' rupturing does not totally obliterate each and every system containing a mass relay to be a huge inconsistency in itself, given what we learn in Arrival. They should not have bothered with the relays even breaking in any high EMS ending, because now it's a matter of arguing authorial intent and lore and whether or not the authors even care about the latter.

Let's take a small example where something pointed out in the codex, which is used as an examplanation for something we experience during gameplay, is flatly ignored for sake of having some kind of dramatic effect: the banshee's biotic implosion. According to the codex, banshees leave no remains upon time of death, as their biotics cause them to implode. Yet, despite this, Falere walks us over to a dead banshee so she can show us exactly what the Ardat Yakshi are being turned into.

Heck forget about multiplayer. That's pretty much a rule-of-cool circus. The very existence of Awakened Collectors and front line volus soldiers is proof enough that lore is about as malleable as Play-Doh.

As for the Crucible, let's consider for a moment the sheer size of this thing compared to the Citadel itself. The Citadel is about 40 something kilometers long. The Crucible, big as it is, must be a few kilometers itself if we're going to take its relative scale seriously. Despite the infrastructure falling, and planet-based manufacturing bases being cut off during the invasion, somehow the Alliance had access to spacefaring manufacturing units capable of assembling this gigantic thing in the depths of space in less than a few months' time.  How? Who the hell knows. It just happens.

Back to the subject of the relays, there's this little tidbit in the wiki:

The relays are made of an unknown but incredibly resilient material, the same material that the Citadel
is built from, and are protected by a quantum shield that renders them
nearly impervious to damage by locking their structure in place at the
subatomic level. They are even capable of surviving a supernova's wake
without being damaged.

This makes me wonder if the events of Arrival should even be possible if this was to be taken seriously.

I agree. I think why there are so many disagreements about a sequence that takes 10 minutes and things like the Indoctrination Theory is because the ending sequence contains so many inconsistencies and unintentional ambiguity.

[BassStyles]

I dare not wade through 21 pages for this answer, but this is mainly directed towards El Super Geckos remark about the Reapers ceasing to be a threat only by means of destroy, therefore making the choice the safest bet for them not to return.

Well... In the destroy ending they just kind of collapse over. Could they not be reanimated by a mad scientist of sorts? I mean even destroy leaves behind the hardware... Someone just needs the software to make them a viable threat again right?

[dreamgazer]

Technically, if they wanted to aggressively fudge the details, yeah, the Reapers could become a threat under someone else's control in any of the endings.

[themikefest]

KaiserShep wrote...

As for the Crucible, let's consider for a moment the sheer size of this thing compared to the Citadel itself. The Citadel is about 40 something kilometers long. The Crucible, big as it is, must be a few kilometers itself if we're going to take its relative scale seriously. Despite the infrastructure falling, and planet-based manufacturing bases being cut off during the invasion, somehow the Alliance had access to spacefaring manufacturing units capable of assembling this gigantic thing in the depths of space in less than a few months' time.  How? Who the hell knows. It just happens.

Good observation.

The one thing that I'm puzzled about is that you have all these engineers/scientists and others building the Crucible and yet they couldn't figure out that it might fit with the Citadel.

[KaiserShep]

BassStyles wrote...

I dare not wade through 21 pages for this answer, but this is mainly directed towards El Super Geckos remark about the Reapers ceasing to be a threat only by means of destroy, therefore making the choice the safest bet for them not to return.

Well... In the destroy ending they just kind of collapse over. Could they not be reanimated by a mad scientist of sorts? I mean even destroy leaves behind the hardware... Someone just needs the software to make them a viable threat again right?

Even if someone attempted to interface with the reapers' hardware to install ReaperOS 2.0, I doubt they'd enjoy much success. Besides, it's likely that the remains would be disassembled while anything useful would be salvaged.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I find a number of things quite laughable. Liara is a Prothean Expert! She's been around all things Prothean. She's got a PhD in archaeology from the University of Serrice specializing in Prothean stuff. She dreams about Protheans. Do you think she has never seen anything depicting Prothean in the ruins before? I would think she has. But she hasn't, just like we're supposed to believe that there are no longer any pictures anywhere in the galactic databases of what quarians look like without their suits. Or ask stupid questions like Can Asari really can reproduce with their own race.

And we're also supposed to believe that Liara is so stupid that Ashley Williams can see that the statues in the Temple of Athame are Prothean and Liara just cannot see it. Who was the writer who wrote Liara for this game? I don't want to see any "Oh but her religious faith blah blah blah s***." She's a researcher. A scientist. She's not stupid. They made her into a moron for that scene and several others. It was bad enough having Kai Leng show up. At least they could have done some decent writing.

Vendetta was programmed not to reveal itself until the Crucible was completed or nearly completed. I think Vendetta said this.

But even building the Crucible was a feat of space magic. I kept wondering where those secret manufacturing plants were located. The first thing the reapers did was take out all of the manufacturing infrastructure. If they could build something that massive that quickly, damn, they could have built thousands of dreadnoughts over the past three years without blinking an eye. And talk about budget? Where did that money come from?

Like Kaiser said, Lore in the MEU is an inconvenient nuisance for the player, but can change on a whim by the writers, and the funny thing is that few players will even notice. Like the Ardat-Yakshi thing. There were other inconsistencies as well - Garrus said the Turians could recognize the "indoctrinated soldiers" (aka Marauders) and they appeared no different to them. Yet we saw husk like creatures. The PTSD Asari recognized who the Banshee was, so apparently it didn't look different, but we and Falare saw those things. I guess the Banshee in question had a name tag over it like Morinth.

I know... pick pick pick pick pick. I'll stop now.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 21 décembre 2013 - 09:38 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I know... pick pick pick pick pick. I'll stop now.

It's like a scab isn't it? You know you should just leave it alone but you just have to pick at it.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I know... pick pick pick pick pick. I'll stop now.

It's like a scab isn't it? You know you should just leave it alone but you just have to pick at it.

I have to go get a christmas card and get it in the mail. 

[rekn2]

Ieldra2 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

rekn2 wrote...

scroll back to my previous posts. theres nothing unique about reapers to target. they are made of the matter like everything else. whats the beam targeting? what singles out "reaper stuff"? how does it differentiate from other materials of the same composite?

arguing about the beam is like arguing about santa

The game says the Crucible can. That's just something you have to accept.

Then the same applies to Synthesis.

i dont have to do **** actually

[teh DRUMPf!!]

The Twilight God wrote...


You're assuming to know the nature of authors intent. If the authors intent is for you to THINK they died it doesn't dictate that they DID die. You feel strongly that the Geth died. Don't confuse your feelings with what you know.

The Jack comparison fails in that with Jack and friends there are two opposing slides that can be verifiably traced to that decision.

Yes, just like the Rannoch wasteland slide can be traced back to Destroy + the quarians dying over Rannoch.

Control doesn't have that slide at all. It shows the geth alive.

This slide could easily be recylced in the Red epilogue. It wasn't, though. And I daresay it's obvious why.

Your basis for dead Geth is the lack of a slide with Geth. Nothing in-game. Just the lack of a slide. So by your logic any race without a slide is dead. At least with Jack's students there is in-game dialog to at least support the idea that they were the students with or without seeing the opposing slide. But you're right in that you can believe what you want about them. You could argue that the graves are some random people if you'd like, seeing as it was a mass cemetery instead of 11 graves. If someone said those weren't her students I couldn't state, as a matter of fact, that the graves include them. I feel that they include her students, but I can't prove it. This is something people seem unable to grasp. You guys have an almost religious attitude about "knowing" things you can't know. Could the Geth have magically died for no reason? Sure. So could the Drell, Batarians, Volus, Yahg, Hanar and Elcor. They have no slide after all. And the citadel folks. You saw the Citadel, right? Surely they are all dead.

If Quarian AND Geth are around in Control the Geth are somewhere separate from the Quarians.
Only in Synthesis are they together due to having no differences and being mind linked and stuff.
So is the abandoned Rannoch in dead Quarian destroy about dead Geth or dead Quarians? Well, the Quarians ARE dead... sooooo, it's about Dead Quarians.

There is simply nothing stated about the Geth in Destroy. There is no Geth related slide whatsoever. It is left a mystery. I don't know what it is about this that is so hard to understand.

I understand your position. I just don't agree with it. But I see no point in arguing this.

If you think the epilogue allows for you to believe the geth are still alive post-Destroy, and really do, power to you.

I, however, have a harder time ignoring the elephant in the room.

The Twilight God wrote...

Reaper logic: The belief that organics will inevitably create organics who will turn on their organic creators and annihilate them. Shepard takes his own life because (if you chose blue or green) he believes that deeply that the conflict is unavoidable. He adopts reaper logic. In essence, Shepard accepts that the Reaper's past actions are justified due to this "truth".

This idea is not unique to the Reapers in the least. Synthetics v. Organics has been a topic/theme in this series for a long while now, and the belief that this synthetics inevitably create conflict with organics is first voiced by a Destroyer (Javik).

So, yeah, you can agree with the Catalyst and be pro-Red.

The Twilight God wrote...

Destroy sucks balls.

On that, we can agree. 

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 22 décembre 2013 - 07:25 .

[The Diesel117]

Okay so I'm a little lost in all the arguments but perhaps this might bring up a point. I picked destroy and I'm certain EDI died due to either the crash of the Normandy (which I doubt since they got the ship working again) or she was killed by the Catalyst/Crucible energy waves. Since she died is it safe to assume the Geth died?

Personally i want a perfectly happy ending where everyone lives (geth and EDI included) and the reapers are destroyed. I want to believe they can re-create the geth and EDI by creating AI's and giving them their memories. so basically they'd be the same up till they had free will.  

Lame? maybe.  wishful thinking? probably. 

Modifié par The Diesel117, 22 décembre 2013 - 08:39 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The more I look at the ending the more the ending really blows. On a single play of the game you think: oh wow, Jack's students died. A lot of people died in the war. It was horrible. But if you played the game twice and made the other decision with the students, and got the other slide, you think: "Oh ****, Jack's students died because of Shepard."

Solution. Only play the game once, man. Ignorance is bliss.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 22 décembre 2013 - 08:47 .