905 réponses à ce sujet

[Ravensword]

J. Reezy wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Anyone who cares the most about story and graphics and cares the least for gameplay shouldn't be playing video games.

It'd be great if Seival understood this and moved on to choose your own adventure books and movies or something. Or at least stopped touting gameplay-lite experiences like Beyond as the best things since sliced bread.

Let's make something clear: B:TS is not a video game; it's an interactive movie. It's like the next step in a chose your own adventure book.

Ah, I can't agree here. As gameplay-lite as Quantic Dream games are, they fulfill the prerequisite of a video game. Beyond has the direct player action that separates a video game and an interactive movie. Even if it is as simple as walking somehere.

Then that sets back video gaming by several decades. It's great that there are places where you can move around, pretty much like Pac-Man. Other than that, it's QTA-mania.

[spirosz]

and another example

[SlottsMachine]

Seival wrote...

No, no. Authors just overestimated an average player's level of intellect. That was the only problem. Probably, next time they will explain some things, so even a kid (or a man with the same IQ) will understand them right away.

Whoa. Whoa. No need to call everyone that disagree's with you "stupid", who does that? 

[AresKeith]

General Slotts wrote...

Seival wrote...

No, no. Authors just overestimated an average player's level of intellect. That was the only problem. Probably, next time they will explain some things, so even a kid (or a man with the same IQ) will understand them right away.

Whoa. Whoa. No need to call everyone that disagree's with you "stupid", who does that? 

Smug

[Ravensword]

General Slotts wrote...

Seival wrote...

No, no. Authors just overestimated an average player's level of intellect. That was the only problem. Probably, next time they will explain some things, so even a kid (or a man with the same IQ) will understand them right away.

Whoa. Whoa. No need to call everyone that disagree's with you "stupid", who does that? 

David.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Seival wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Seival wrote...

Gravisanimi wrote...

Seival wrote...

General Slotts wrote...

I guess I would give you a couple of them if they where handled better, but they weren't.

You disagree with authors' answers to some philosophical questions they raised in their story? Good. Argue about that, and do that constructively, instead of calling the story "an example of bad writing". The story forced you to think about very important things, and you should be really *grateful for that.

He's not disagreeing with the author's answers, he's stating their inability to correctly frame their questions.

Maybe you should get some better graphics, because you misread something that was crystal clear on my screen.

The questions were framed perfectly. Some players just lack the ability to fully recognize them, and/or consider the way the questions were asked in contradiction with their own twisted logic.

If there are players who don't understand the question, then it was not framed perfectly. That is the very definition of perfection, to be without fault, which is what a misunderstanding or non-clear perception is.

If it were perfect, there would be no people who misunderstand it.

No, no. Authors just overestimated an average player's level of intellect. That was the only problem. Probably, next time they will explain some things, so even a kid (or a man with the same IQ) will understand them right away.

2 + 2 is a perfet question, becuase everyone can understand what is being asked.

Asking "what is the theoritical result of a set binary number developing an extensionally observable duplication of it's preset amounts within the confines of empirical obervational limitations" is a imperfect question, becasue it is overly complicated and designed to intentionally confuse and mislead.

And saying "you just weren't smart enough to get it man" while drinking your starbucks overpriced coffee pretentiously doesn't make it perfect. 


It is still a imperfect question.

[Ravensword]

J. Reezy wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Anyone who cares the most about story and graphics and cares the least for gameplay shouldn't be playing video games.

It'd be great if Seival understood this and moved on to choose your own adventure books and movies or something. Or at least stopped touting gameplay-lite experiences like Beyond as the best things since sliced bread.

Let's make something clear: B:TS is not a video game; it's an interactive movie. It's like the next step in a chose your own adventure book.

Ah, I can't agree here. As gameplay-lite as Quantic Dream games are, they fulfill the prerequisite of a video game. Beyond has the direct player action that separates a video game and an interactive movie. Even if it is as simple as walking somehere.

Then that sets back video gaming by several decades. It's great that there are places where you can move around, pretty much like Pac-Man. Other than that, it's QTA-mania.

Only if it was considered some pinnacle of gaming. Is it? I doubt it. It's no Half-Life, GTA, Hitman, Goldeneye, Gears of War, Splinter Cell, etc.

I don't see a lot of developers, if any, looking at a Quantic Dream game and saying, "We need to be more like that."

And thank god for that, homes. The last thing gaming needs is for the industry to water down video games to the point that they're just interactive films and such. Thing is, w/ all this technology and David Cage showing off the mocapped face of an old man going through a variety of emotions, it makes me wonder if there could be some devs that think that this is some sort of genius innvation, rather than just more extravagant crap that's gonna add to the ever-increasing budgets of video games.

[spirosz]

I'm glad for that too, but I appreciate what Quantic Dream is doing, not David - he seems uptight and too set on his ways to appreciate other forms of developing games. Anyway - Seival, have you or have you not?

[SlottsMachine]

simfamSP wrote...

"what is the theoritical result of a set binary number developing an extensionally observable duplication of it's preset amounts within the confines of empirical obervational limitations"

I need to rehearse this and ask a stoner.

LOL.

[eternal_napalm]

I'm playing it and its fun. Not a great game but good. The concept of the story is great but voice acting is below average. You could easily be seen as the antagonist.

Earth destroyed in nuclear war, human race splinters into two races, both take a planet in Alpha Centauri. Your people, Vektans, attack and slaughter and harass the Helghast, eventually destroying their planet. Shadow Fall occurs later, with the remaining Helghast now refugees on and sharing  your planet. Looks like the Helghast have a *******SPOILER****** nasty biological weapon of sorts. Still playing it, escaping the Helghast prison with Echo right now.

Weapons have some recoil and its actually very tactical.

Modifié par eternal_napalm, 15 décembre 2013 - 07:47 .

[Seival]

simfamSP wrote...

Oh look, another 80 page Sevial thread xD

How do you do it?!

at's why Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, or Harry Potter are just a fictional advantures for 12-years-old kids,
while Ghost in the Shell, Appleseed, or Mass Effect are great and very well told serious stories with meaning.

You have physically hurt me with that statement.

Súlon gwanna nîf gín! Gen hedithon min noer Orodruin!

What can change the nature of a man?

Mass Effect DID NOT ask this.






That's Lord of the Rings and now Planescape: Torment you've insulted.

Do you seek to pain me further? Do you enjoy such malice?

So, you can recognise only the questions asked directly, in some dialogue or VO? Ideas behind story events are completely invisible for you?... Why do I even bother replying to this? I'm afraid ME or K:SF stories are just overcomplicated for you.

[Seival]

Cyonan wrote...

Seival wrote...
Does the goal justifies the means?
What exactly causes the conflicts and wars?
Do you consider machines with artificial intelligence as living beings?
What is more important, free will or order?
Do you believe organic beings and machines always end up in conflict?
How long can the achieved peace last?
Why civilizations have too short memory and always repeat the same mistakes?
What can change the nature of a man?
What would you do after given several options you don't like without any way to dictate your own rules?
Is the pride of one man more important than lives of millions of innocent people?
...

Should I continue?

You should probably rethink the list, because in all honesty Mass Effect doesn't really get into most of those things.

Yes star child says "machines and organics will always fight" but that doesn't mean it's forcing you to think about it or exploring the idea. It merely says it and that's that.

If they wanted to force me into thinking about an idea, then they'd have given me a choice around it like rewriting vs destroying the heretic Geth. Assuming you aren't just picking your dialogue at random, you'll likely end up considering the idea of "are the Geth considered living beings and is it right to brain wash them?"

Simply stating something doesn't make a game deep and philosophical, however. It needs to actually explore the ideas.

I'd also say it's not too great at the "what would you do after given several options you don't like" outside of the Vermire scenario. If a game wants to give you the tough choice, it should be the tough choice that has no "right" answer. I'm more of the opinion that the suicide mission would have held more weight if it was impossible to bring everybody back alive.

That would have made you think a bit more about your actions as the commander of the squad.

Why should I rethink the list of questions that I've seen behind the story events so clearly?

You said ME3 ending and ME story in general didn't force players to think and explore the very important thoughts and ideas? You probably forgot all those countless morality-based holywars occured in ME3 section of this forum over the last 1.5 years.

[Seival]

Ravensword wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Anyone who cares the most about story and graphics and cares the least for gameplay shouldn't be playing video games.

It'd be great if Seival understood this and moved on to choose your own adventure books and movies or something. Or at least stopped touting gameplay-lite experiences like Beyond as the best things since sliced bread.

Let's make something clear: B:TS is not a video game; it's an interactive movie. It's like the next step in a chose your own adventure book.

Ah, I can't agree here. As gameplay-lite as Quantic Dream games are, they fulfill the prerequisite of a video game. Beyond has the direct player action that separates a video game and an interactive movie. Even if it is as simple as walking somehere.

Then that sets back video gaming by several decades. It's great that there are places where you can move around, pretty much like Pac-Man. Other than that, it's QTA-mania.

No it doesn't.

Beyond: Two Souls gameplay is mostly QTE, however I can't call this a disadvantage. Simply, because Beyond: Two Souls gameplay is very diverse and interesting. It uses the entire gamepad. Movement with left stick and looking with right stick reminds any modern third person game (but has much more diferent animations than any regular game). 8 different buttons can be used in three different ways (press, press-and-hold, press-rapidly), and in combinations with each other. Swipe-like interactions with right stick remind swipes common for mobile games - very intuitive and handy. Even gyroscope and accelerometer are used. In addition to all of that, Beyond: Two Souls contains elements of different game genres - stealth action, cover shooter, simulator, and quest. Finally, Jodie and Aiden gameplays are completely different. Basically, I can't recall any FPS, TPS, or RPG game that has such diverse gameplay possibilities, especially - non-combat gameplay possibilities.

Some people may say that Beyond: Two Souls has too small amout of gameplay, and I will disagree. The game has enough amount of gameplay. It's not too large, so I never got bored with doing the same thing over and over again. And it's not too small, so I get perfect level of immersion, and feel like I'm participating in the story's events, not just observing.

Some people may also say that impossibility of protagonist's death is the game's disadvantage. But it is not, actually. It fits this particular story very well. And there are other good story-driven games that prove I'm right, for example Planescape: Torment and Darksiders-2. Beyond: Two Souls story depends on player's actions, but not in the way if you will die or not during the gameplay, but in the way of changing turn of events in the story's key moments.

What I liked the most in Beyond: Two Souls gameplay - is melee combat. I found it very dynamic, exciting, and sometimes very challenging. It was really exciting to see fully motion captured diverse melee and run scenarios with a lot of key-points for intuitive interactions, which are not always easy to perform. This kind of melee combat requires attention and concentration, it looks and feels really great and realistic, and honestly, I would prefer such melee gameplay over any other variants of melee regular games can offer nowadays.

One more thing worth mentioning is dialogue system. What I like about it is that unlike other dialogue systems, it's quite challenging. You can't trigger dialogue scene, then go drink some coffee, talk to your fiends for a while, make a couple of calls, and then return to the game just to see the dialogue scene as you left it 20 minutes ago. Dialogue options are fading in matter of seconds. Sometimes they are blinking and flouncing in accordance to your character's condition - when Jodie is tired or angry for example, and it quite hard to say something right in such a condition, just like in real life.

Modifié par Seival, 15 décembre 2013 - 03:36 .

[Seival]

simfamSP wrote...

You know, that state of mind that has you bash something you've never read/played/watched mainly because you heard a lot of bad things about it or you don't like the fanbase.

Bu-but... he insulted LOTR... that's like kicking my baby right infront of my face! :'(

Seriously Sevial, you hurt me bad there.

I'm really sorry for any inconvenience my posts may cause, but I prefer to expound my thoughts honestly.

[Rusty Sandusky]

Seival wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Oh look, another 80 page Sevial thread xD

How do you do it?!

at's why Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, or Harry Potter are just a fictional advantures for 12-years-old kids,
while Ghost in the Shell, Appleseed, or Mass Effect are great and very well told serious stories with meaning.

You have physically hurt me with that statement.

Súlon gwanna nîf gín! Gen hedithon min noer Orodruin!

What can change the nature of a man?

Mass Effect DID NOT ask this.






That's Lord of the Rings and now Planescape: Torment you've insulted.

Do you seek to pain me further? Do you enjoy such malice?

So, you can recognise only the questions asked directly, in some dialogue or VO? Ideas behind story events are completely invisible for you?... Why do I even bother replying to this? I'm afraid ME or K:SF stories are just overcomplicated for you.

I suggest you watch this

[spirosz]

Seival, you haven't answered - 

spirosz wrote...

Seival have you played Journey or LIMBO?

spirosz wrote...

The reason I ask this, is because those two indie games moved me more than a lot of "AAA" titles ever would and in relation to your argument about budget and what needs to be put in a game to make it meaningful or philosophical -tell me this isn't meaningful - oh wait - it didn't have voice acting.

[billy the squid]

Seival wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Seival wrote...
Does the goal justifies the means?
What exactly causes the conflicts and wars?
Do you consider machines with artificial intelligence as living beings?
What is more important, free will or order?
Do you believe organic beings and machines always end up in conflict?
How long can the achieved peace last?
Why civilizations have too short memory and always repeat the same mistakes?
What can change the nature of a man?
What would you do after given several options you don't like without any way to dictate your own rules?
Is the pride of one man more important than lives of millions of innocent people?
...

Should I continue?

You should probably rethink the list, because in all honesty Mass Effect doesn't really get into most of those things.

Yes star child says "machines and organics will always fight" but that doesn't mean it's forcing you to think about it or exploring the idea. It merely says it and that's that.

If they wanted to force me into thinking about an idea, then they'd have given me a choice around it like rewriting vs destroying the heretic Geth. Assuming you aren't just picking your dialogue at random, you'll likely end up considering the idea of "are the Geth considered living beings and is it right to brain wash them?"

Simply stating something doesn't make a game deep and philosophical, however. It needs to actually explore the ideas.

I'd also say it's not too great at the "what would you do after given several options you don't like" outside of the Vermire scenario. If a game wants to give you the tough choice, it should be the tough choice that has no "right" answer. I'm more of the opinion that the suicide mission would have held more weight if it was impossible to bring everybody back alive.

That would have made you think a bit more about your actions as the commander of the squad.

Why should I rethink the list of questions that I've seen behind the story events so clearly?

You said ME3 ending and ME story in general didn't force players to think and explore the very important thoughts and ideas? You probably forgot all those countless morality-based holywars occured in ME3 section of this forum over the last 1.5 years.

Because you're blind, putting on glasses with eyes painted on them doesn't make you see any better.

Modifié par billy the squid, 15 décembre 2013 - 06:00 .

[TheRealJayDee]

Seival wrote...

Stagnation lives only within and around the people who prefer to dwell on the past, and refuse to move forwards. Including the players who prefer Planescape: Torment over Mass Effect Trilogy

Please, stop... 

I mean, damn, wtf Seival? We kinda agreed a little on Beyond (at least insofar as that it IS a videogame and not horrible), and now you're ****ting on stuff like Torment, LotR etc, and call people stupid for not liking Mass Effect 3 again. I genuinely thought there could be a fresh start for us outside the ME3 boards, but this...?

And I can't even comment on Killzone at all - I've played very few FPS games in general, and none on console. Just not my kind of game, also I suck at playing them.

CrustyBot wrote...

Grave of the Fireflies is old and outdated. How anyone can prefer that over something more modern and deep like Naruto is beyond me.

...I know you're not serious, but please stop as well...! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]

[spirosz]

spirosz wrote...

Seival, you haven't answered - 

spirosz wrote...

Seival have you played Journey or LIMBO?

spirosz wrote...

The reason I ask this, is because those two indie games moved me more than a lot of "AAA" titles ever would and in relation to your argument about budget and what needs to be put in a game to make it meaningful or philosophical -tell me this isn't meaningful - oh wait - it didn't have voice acting.