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[Quatre]

JulianWellpit wrote...

... another intriguing theory.

Wow, well observed! I had really forgotten about the crystaline structure of the eggs.

Modifié par Quatre04, 13 décembre 2013 - 03:43 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

JulianWellpit wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

If Qunari were indeed dragonblooded, wouldn't it ahve been easier for Yavanna to just get some lowlife Tal-Vasoth to "donate" some blood, instead of going through the trouble of finding Alistair?

Do you think it is a well known thing if it's true ?

I doubt that this kind of information is known to the usual qunari grey giant. It might be a known thing only among the Ariqun high members ( after all, it's their job to note and know everything about the Qun ) and maybe a few outside people like Titus.


Also,I think that they were altered through the use of magic and dragon blood ( similar do the orcs from the Might & Magic universe, only that they were transformed with the use of demon blood ). It might not be the same thing as ingesting it ( it might get thinner and thinner through selective breeding) + if I'm right, the Ariqun worked to eliminate it for some time. 

Considering that Yavanna seemed to know an aweful lot about Dragons already, then yes, I would suppose she would know something as vital about Dragons as that.

JulianWellpit wrote...

Note: I've watched the image with Yavana embracing the dragon egg againt. The egg was steamed. The dragon inside is not a skeleton, it's alive and sleeping.

Obviously. Well considering that we know that Dragons were suppsoed to be sleeping in that giant cavern yet were strangely absent from the image. Where else did you thikn the Dragons would be sleeping? But that doesn't mean that there is any conenction between Dragons and Lyrium.

[Rebel Wolf]

Walk without rhythm, and it won't attract the worm.
if you walk without rhythm,you'll never learn.

[Vulpe]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

If Qunari were indeed dragonblooded, wouldn't it ahve been easier for Yavanna to just get some lowlife Tal-Vasoth to "donate" some blood, instead of going through the trouble of finding Alistair?

Do you think it is a well known thing if it's true ?

I doubt that this kind of information is known to the usual qunari grey giant. It might be a known thing only among the Ariqun high members ( after all, it's their job to note and know everything about the Qun ) and maybe a few outside people like Titus.


Also,I think that they were altered through the use of magic and dragon blood ( similar do the orcs from the Might & Magic universe, only that they were transformed with the use of demon blood ). It might not be the same thing as ingesting it ( it might get thinner and thinner through selective breeding) + if I'm right, the Ariqun worked to eliminate it for some time. 

Considering that Yavanna seemed to know an aweful lot about Dragons already, then yes, I would suppose she would know something as vital about Dragons as that.

JulianWellpit wrote...

Note: I've watched the image with Yavana embracing the dragon egg againt. The egg was steamed. The dragon inside is not a skeleton, it's alive and sleeping.

Obviously. Well considering that we know that Dragons were suppsoed to be sleeping in that giant cavern yet were strangely absent from the image. Where else did you thikn the Dragons would be sleeping? But that doesn't mean that there is any conenction between Dragons and Lyrium.

1) Remember that the grey giants don't originate from Thedas. They are from the land of the qunari ( L.O.The.Q). If they are indeed altered, those alterations would have taken place in ancient times, possibly during the time of the kossith culture in Lotheq, completly separated from Thedas.

Prior to the Qunari coming in Par Vollen, Seheron and their attack on Thedas nobody interacted with them (except for those darkspawn captured colonists that might have been kossith). They are completly alien as a race and as a culture.

She didn't interact with them and, if she didn't have access to certain documents ( which I highly doubt ), she couldn't know about it.

2) She states that she " revived few, so very few. They were the first dragons to roam their land in many ages". So, where they are ? 

Across Thedas. We most likely killed a few of them in the games.

As for their connection to lyrium : of course it doesn't prove it. It's a theory and until some official information that might approve od demolish it it remains just that.

Still, I want to bring forth something that eluvianix mentioned in another thread and made me think about a possible connection.

We know that Oghren says that he can feel a lot of lyrium veins in the place where the Sacred Ashes are placed.

What is under those ruins ? Dragon nests.It could be that those caves were used by dragons as shelters from ancient times and if you take everything I said in consideration, they might be the reason why Ogren claims that there are lyrium veins under the place where the ashes are located. The shells had enough time to become lyrium.

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 13 décembre 2013 - 04:46 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Why would Titus be privy to the knowledge that Qunari are dragonblooded, and not Yavanna? Also, in the Fade everything is equidistant, since Yavanna very well can't have learned her lore about Dragons from Dragons (since they were all gone) she might have learned it from demons, which is probably also where Titus would have learned it.

And it could also just be that Dragons are attracted to the sound of Lyrium, like Darkspawn and Dwarves, and all other underground dwelling creatures.

[Vulpe]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why would Titus be privy to the knowledge that Qunari are dragonblooded, and not Yavanna? Also, in the Fade everything is equidistant, since Yavanna very well can't have learned her lore about Dragons from Dragons (since they were all gone) she might have learned it from demons, which is probably also where Titus would have learned it.

And it could also just be that Dragons are attracted to the sound of Lyrium, like Darkspawn and Dwarves, and all other underground dwelling creatures.

I would say that what she knows she knows from Flemeth.

As for Titus - he's from Tevinter. In all their wars he could have found some documents or captured an Ariqun priest ( we know that they sometimes travel with the soldiers - we have Rasaan as proof ) that knows something about this and thus found out about the "birthright" the qunari rejected.

I want to add another statement of Yavana with this occasion. She says that " The blood of dragons is the blood of the world".

Don't know about you or anyone that reads this, but to me lyrium pretty much seems the blood of the world.

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 13 décembre 2013 - 05:03 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Lyrium would rather be the "Blood of the Fade". That would mean the dragons' blood as "Blood of the World" would be the antithesis to Lyrium. That would actually make sense.

[Vulpe]

It's in the physical world, so it would be the blood of the world. The Fade lyrium might just be zones in which magical energy is highly concentrated. Remember that in The Fade everything is not what it seems and that the world can be manipulated to take the form of certain things from the real world.

An individual in the Fade could unconsciously manipulate it and concentrate magical energy in a certain small place and also make it take the form of something he is familiar with and expects it to replentish his energy.

If you are a mage ( and even a non-mage) you know that lyrium replenishes mana and that the Fade is magical in nature so you would expect to see and try to find the thing that replenishes it - lyrium.

It wouldn't make sense if those magic concentrated places would take the shape of a boat, a goat or cheese.They wouldn't expect them to have that effect and they wouldn't interact with them.

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 13 décembre 2013 - 05:19 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Lyrium is a manifestation of the Fade. Lyrium is magic made manifest, and magic originates from the Fade. It is not a natural part of the world. Therefore it can hardly be the blood of the world.

[Vulpe]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lyrium is a manifestation of the Fade. Lyrium is magic made manifest, and magic originates from the Fade. It is not a natural part of the world. Therefore it can hardly be the blood of the world.

I'd say that magic is the manifestation of the Fade. Lyrium is the most magically potent physical substance ( besides blood ).
If I take in consideration what I said in my original post, lyrium would be highly magically concentrated dragon egg/cocoon shell.

I don't agree on the "not a natural part of the world" part. If you take in consideration what Yavana said, the physical world and The Fade where one at a time in Thedas's history. Then The Veil appeared and separated them. That would mean that magic is a natural part of the world.

When we talk of the world, we refer to all of it - the mountains, the seas, the plains, forests, the deserts etc.

As blood is the most magically potent element in a human ( and other races ) body, lyrium is the most magically potent thing in the inanimated world.

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 13 décembre 2013 - 06:00 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Okay WoT says that Lyrium is crystaline formations that capture the essence of magic, and it is unique in the fact that it is the only non-living thing on Thedas that contain magic.
This arguably means the the crystaline formation itself is just that, crystals, but they are unique in the fact that they capture and store magical energies. This would also suggest that this magical energy could be tapped, leaving the Lyrium drained and empty, and nothing more than generic crystals (which possibly over time would fill up again on magical energy).

This to me even further suggest that Lyrium is certainly not the "Blood of the World". But it could possibly be the seams that holds the world together (or apart of you ask Yavanna).

[Vulpe]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Okay WoT says that Lyrium is crystaline formations that capture the essence of magic, and it is unique in the fact that it is the only non-living thing on Thedas that contain magic.
This arguably means the the crystaline formation itself is just that, crystals, but they are unique in the fact that they capture and store magical energies. This would also suggest that this magical energy could be tapped, leaving the Lyrium drained and empty, and nothing more than generic crystals (which possibly over time would fill up again on magical energy).

This to me even further suggest that Lyrium is certainly not the "Blood of the World". But it could possibly be the seams that holds the world together (or apart of you ask Yavanna).

What you said doesn't contradic with what I said. The cocoons seem to be a type of crystal. So it enforces what I said.

As for the blood of the world thing - it's a metaphor. It is the closest thing the inanimate world has to blood.

We know that blood is the most magically potent substance in Thedas. It is safe to assume that it is filled with magical energy.

As you said , lyrium is the only magically non-living thing.It's just a comparation between the world and the human body, between blood and lyrium and a personification of the world.

As I said, lyrium is to the inanimate world the same thing blood is to the animated one.Form here the " Blood Of The World" metaphor.

[EmperorSahlertz]

JulianWellpit wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Okay WoT says that Lyrium is crystaline formations that capture the essence of magic, and it is unique in the fact that it is the only non-living thing on Thedas that contain magic.
This arguably means the the crystaline formation itself is just that, crystals, but they are unique in the fact that they capture and store magical energies. This would also suggest that this magical energy could be tapped, leaving the Lyrium drained and empty, and nothing more than generic crystals (which possibly over time would fill up again on magical energy).

This to me even further suggest that Lyrium is certainly not the "Blood of the World". But it could possibly be the seams that holds the world together (or apart of you ask Yavanna).

What you said doesn't contradic with what I said. The cocoons seem to be a type of crystal. So it enforces what I said.

As for the blood of the world thing - it's a metaphor. It is the closest thing the inanimate world has to blood.

We know that blood is the most magically potent substance in Thedas. It is safe to assume that it is filled with magical energy.

As you said , lyrium is the only magically non-living thing.It's just a comparation between the world and the human body, between blood and lyrium and a personification of the world.

As I said, lyrium is to the inanimate world the same thing blood is to the animated one.Form here the " Blood Of The World" metaphor.

That two things are crystaline hardly "enforces your ideas". The very fact that Yavanna snuggles up against the crystaline egg proves that it isn't raw Lyrium. It could be processed Lyrium, which would then mean that they are constructs, which I find entirely more likely given the purpose of the Temple and cavern in question.

That Lyrium should be the blood/tears/sweat/fecal matter/semen of Dragons just seem..... Boring... It certainly demystifies Lyrium.

Personally I think that Dragons are conencted to Lyrium in another way. Namely that the Dragons seems to hold some sort of conenction to the Fade, and the Lyrium's song, which the Dragons hear, is actually the call of Dragons from the Fade.
I believe that if Yavanna is right, and that there indeed once were a time were the two worlds were one, then Lyrium is what keeps the two worlds apart now, and that some Dragons were caught on either side of this "wall".

[Vulpe]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

That two things are crystaline hardly "enforces your ideas". The very fact that Yavanna snuggles up against the crystaline egg proves that it isn't raw Lyrium. It could be processed Lyrium, which would then mean that they are constructs, which I find entirely more likely given the purpose of the Temple and cavern in question.

That Lyrium should be the blood/tears/sweat/fecal matter/semen of Dragons just seem..... Boring... It certainly demystifies Lyrium.

Personally I think that Dragons are conencted to Lyrium in another way. Namely that the Dragons seems to hold some sort of conenction to the Fade, and the Lyrium's song, which the Dragons hear, is actually the call of Dragons from the Fade.
I believe that if Yavanna is right, and that there indeed once were a time were the two worlds were one, then Lyrium is what keeps the two worlds apart now, and that some Dragons were caught on either side of this "wall".

You weren't attentif to what I said.I said that it isn't lyrium ( yet). I said that it becomes lyrium in time, after it absorbed enough enrgy from the Fade ( thing that I said it keeps doing even after the dragons get out ), a process that might take centuries or millenia. It would be something similar to how the Sandworms make spice or how dinosaurs become petroleum. It would somehow be a paralel to these two.

As for the "blood/tears/sweat/fecal matter/semen" you forget that dragons have in them a substance that no other animal has and no, I'm not talking about blood.

They are able to spite fire. It is safe to assume that they have in their bodies some specialized compartiments that hold a volatile substance that they ignite when they want to SEE THE WORLD ON FIRE  ( Similar to how snakes have modified salivary glands that produce and hold the venom. The dragons might have them in the head or another part of their body. We can't know.We can only assume).

If you think that this substance, if not ignited, starts to solidify in contact with air and it transforms inself in a crystal like structure, it doesn't sound that far fetched. Also, it could also posses magical propreties, just as their blood does.

All said and done, dragons would cocoon themselves just like a caterpillar by using the substance that they usually ignite to spit fire, which I find fascinating.

Still, you are entiteled to your own opinions, you have the right to not like my theory and to belive what you wish and I respect that. 

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 13 décembre 2013 - 06:49 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

It isn't any more far fetched than demons from another dimension, stalking people capable of shooting lightning from their hands... It is just boring. There isn't any mystery to it.

[Vulpe]

 That is your personal preference.I am sure that there are other people that share it as I am sure that there are people like me that like it ; also, let's not forget about those who simply don't care.

Until we get some official information we can only make assumptions. We're at the writing team mercy.

[Heimdall]

JulianWellpit wrote...



Also,I think that they were altered through the use of magic and dragon blood ( similar do the orcs from the Might & Magic universe, only that they were transformed with the use of demon blood ). It might not be the same thing as ingesting it ( it might get thinner and thinner through selective breeding) + if I'm right, the Ariqun worked to eliminate it for some time. 

Actually...  That would explain why the Qunari consider those born without horns to be special.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 13 décembre 2013 - 07:15 .

[Vulpe]

Lord Aesir wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...



Also,I think that they were altered through the use of magic and dragon blood ( similar do the orcs from the Might & Magic universe, only that they were transformed with the use of demon blood ). It might not be the same thing as ingesting it ( it might get thinner and thinner through selective breeding) + if I'm right, the Ariqun worked to eliminate it for some time. 

Actually...  That would explain why the Qunari consider those born without [/i]horns to be special.

Yep. I have a theory regarding it as well. Take a look at it if you want too. It connects beautifully with this one.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Lord Aesir wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...



Also,I think that they were altered through the use of magic and dragon blood ( similar do the orcs from the Might & Magic universe, only that they were transformed with the use of demon blood ). It might not be the same thing as ingesting it ( it might get thinner and thinner through selective breeding) + if I'm right, the Ariqun worked to eliminate it for some time. 

Actually...  That would explain why the Qunari consider those born without horns to be special.

Well, the mere fact that they are born without horns should be enough to make the Qunari consider them special.

[Vulpe]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Well, the mere fact that they are born without horns should be enough to make the Qunari consider them special.

It's strange for a society that doesn't care about what race you are or how you look to give to certain individuals preferencial treatement. + they seem to be born without the claw like nails

[EmperorSahlertz]

JulianWellpit wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Well, the mere fact that they are born without horns should be enough to make the Qunari consider them special.

It's strange for a society that doesn't care about what race you are or how you look to give to certain individuals preferencial treatement. + they seem to be born without the claw like nails

They don't give them preferential treatment, they merely think that Qunari born without horns are meant to do great things. They are still assigned their roles just like every other Qunari.

[Vulpe]

To me it sounds starnge. Horns or no horns shouldn't make them special and make them consider that they are meant to do great things.This should apply to humans and elves as well.They don't have horns.

It should only make them better suited to be vanguards ( if they are assigned to the army), diplomats or something like that ( if assigned to the priesthood)

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 13 décembre 2013 - 07:48 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

JulianWellpit wrote...

To me it sounds starnge. Horns or no horns shouldn't make them special and make them consider that they are meant to do great things.This should apply to humans and elves as well.They don't have horns.

It should only make them better suited to be vanguards ( if they are assigned to the army), diplomats or something like that ( if assigned to the priesthood)

I'm pretty sure that if a human were to be born with horns, that the rest of humanity would consider that individual special aswell. For good or ill.

[EmperorSahlertz]

*double post*

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 13 décembre 2013 - 08:21 .

[Vulpe]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...

To me it sounds starnge. Horns or no horns shouldn't make them special and make them consider that they are meant to do great things.This should apply to humans and elves as well.They don't have horns.

It should only make them better suited to be vanguards ( if they are assigned to the army), diplomats or something like that ( if assigned to the priesthood)

I'm pretty sure that if a human were to be born with horns, that the rest of humanity would consider that individual special aswell. For good or ill.

And it is perfectly normal and rational...until you think of what religion/philosopy they follow,what it dictates and their almost zelous dedication to its rules and norms. It seems anti-Qun to me.

Look, I've got a feeling we're on the road of derailing this thread. If you want to continue this discussion regarding the grey giants I suggest we move it to another thread. I have one that is approaches exactly this aspect ( among others ) and I have there information (in the original post and the comments ) that can be used as a hint regarding their connection to dragons.If you wish, we can move it there or in any other thread that approaches this subject or a similar one - I'm sure there are many others.

If not, let's try to remain on the subject at hand or call it even and finish it for now.