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[Angrywolves]

Not a Frank Herbert Dune game.

[Vulpe]

 Sorry, but that's hardly an argument. All those paralels between the Bene Gesserit - Ben Hassrath, the DA Maker and the Dune Maker, lyrium and spice (even if they are a little similar by the fact that they enhance ones capabilities and cause addictiveness ), the wormsign and rythmic walking were  just jokes to ease the conversation.

I used this paralel so that people might better understand what I'm saying and to present the possibility that as in Dune , where the giant worms - who are some,if not the most, dangerous creatures out there - are the source of the most precious resource in that universe, so could dragons , that are on their turn some very dangerous beings, be the source of the most precious resource in Thedas.

It's obvious that it's not a Dune game.

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 14 décembre 2013 - 09:07 .

[UC SIM]

JulianWellpit wrote...

UC SIM wrote...

Well here's another Dune related one for you "Quizzats Cataract(sp)" The Qunari have breeding programmes. They have a priesthood dominated by females too, Bene Gesserit. Could it be that the Qunari are trying to create a being of immense power? A being that can be in many places at once? Who can look at the places no other can?
I don't think so! But its very easy too see parallels between various things.

Here's another one : guess how the fremens used to call the giant worms ? I'll tell you : Whorm who is God, Great Maker and wait for it... The Maker .

Andraste is married to a giant worm.

As for the qunari, I think that they were altered through the use of dragon blood and magic. The kossith would have been a dragon worshiping culture and the grey giants would have played a role in protecting and awakening the dragons, as Yavana did.

Now what I think the Ariqun secretly tries to do is to cleanse their bloodline of the dragon blood and the dragon worshiper heritage. Here you can read more about what I'm saying if you're interested.

Already read that post and commented on it too I beleive. But what I'm now going to nip-pick at is the "The Maker" thing... Can you give a source?

IIRC the two names of the great worms of Arakis are, Shaihalud; Wise Old Man of the desert. Shaitan; Satan/Devil ect.

The worms were first know to the Freeman as Shaitan, the great destroyer. The reasons for this are obvious. The worms are attacted to water and wish to make sand trout there which but the Freeman didn't know that and when they tried to make settlements outside of the Sieches(sp) and rocky outcrops it would not end well.

Eventually a young Freeman was outcast from his tribe, he was wondering through the desert when his movements attracted the worm. He was angry at the worm, how dare it come and bother him in his most desperate of times! Instead of fleeing from the worm and dying in its maw he charged at it, sidesteping at the sweet spot moment and making his way to the top of the worm. He the rode this worm untill it died from exhaustion. He started to contemplate the worm, which had continued to ride until it died from him. He decided that the great worms were not Shaitan but rather Shaihalud.

Anyway the point about all this is I can't remember the worms being refrenced to as the "Maker" so please show me.

[Vulpe]

"Bless the Maker and all His Water. Bless the coming and going of Him, May His passing cleanse the world. May He keep the world for his people." Fremen saying, recited by Liet-Kynes, in the presence of Paul Atreides.

Maker hooks   

Sandworms

For the kossith post - added some extra info in the original post and there are some new things in the comments.

Now let's try to remain on topic.

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 14 décembre 2013 - 02:57 .

[UC SIM]

Thank you, Don't know why I didn't recognise "Maker" as one of the worms names, time plays tricks on us all I suppose.

Would be Interesting if the Lyrium was a product of a creature like the Sand Trout of the Dune Universe. I don't think that'll be the case but non-the-less.

I think that the Lyrium is a self replicating Crystal. Its drawing the energy it requires to self replicate from the fade. Which may also explain why it has the effects it does. This also explains the rapid growth of Lyrium that the Dwarfs who mine it attest too. Caverns that were once depleted have new deposits(to avoid confusion the stone form seems to be common, however the refinement into liquid form for use by mages and templars seems to requite alot of the prior making it rare commodity in thedas.)

Edit: A thought that just poped into my head; Orzammar econemy is based on its monopoly of Lyrium production. It would be intresting seeing the effects that the surface worlds problems with the mages and templars is having on Orzammar itself. No demand for their supply would mean that alot of Dwarf miners would not get payed becouse there paymasters are not making income via the production and sales of Lyrium.

I doubt that Bioware would portay that but It would be really cool to enter Orzammar which is now partially undercontrol via a Coterie which has insighted rebellion against the nobles becouse of the insecurity of dwarven welfare meaning that alot of Dwarfs have turned to the Coterie in order to support themselves.

I realise that you asked to get back on topic but my mind doesn't work like that? haha sorry.

Infact its a good way to explore some real world problems that are happening right now?

Modifié par UC SIM, 16 décembre 2013 - 06:40 .

[Vulpe]

UC SIM wrote...

Thank you, Don't know why I didn't recognise "Maker" as one of the worms names, time plays tricks on us all I suppose.

Would be Interesting if the Lyrium was a product of a creature like the Sand Trout of the Dune Universe. I don't think that'll be the case but non-the-less.

I think that the Lyrium is a self replicating Crystal. Its drawing the energy it requires to self replicate from the fade. Which may also explain why it has the effects it does. This also explains the rapid growth of Lyrium that the Dwarfs who mine it attest too. Caverns that were once depleted have new deposits(to avoid confusion the stone form seems to be common, however the refinement into liquid form for use by mages and templars seems to requite alot of the prior making it rare commodity in thedas.)

Edit: A thought that just poped into my head; Orzammar econemy is based on its monopoly of Lyrium production. It would be intresting seeing the effects that the surface worlds problems with the mages and templars is having on Orzammar itself. No demand for their supply would mean that alot of Dwarf miners would not get payed becouse there paymasters are not making income via the production and sales of Lyrium.

I doubt that Bioware would portay that but It would be really cool to enter Orzammar which is now partially undercontrol via a Coterie which has insighted rebellion against the nobles becouse of the insecurity of dwarven welfare meaning that alot of Dwarfs have turned to the Coterie in order to support themselves.

I realise that you asked to get back on topic but my mind doesn't work like that? haha sorry.

Infact its a good way to explore some real world problems that are happening right now?

Oh, I don't have any doubt that lyrium is a self replicating crystal. I have a theory regarding red lyrium that states exactly just that. The difference from blue and red lyrium would be that while the blue one syphons energy from The Fade at a  slow rate and replicates at the same pace, the red one uses its host. It absorbs the energy from its victim blood and the victim's body replentishes the energy provisions much faster and thus self replicating itself much more faster that his blue relative.

I'm just seeking an origin for it. As I said in one of my previous comments, it might be made from the same liquid dragons use to produce their flames, only that they don't ignite it and in contact with air it starts to crystalize. If you read closely my original post and my other comments, you will see that I stated that the shell absorbs energy from The Fade and in time, after it absorbed enough, it can be considered lyrium. 

And yes, it would be interesting to see the effects of the war on Orzammar.

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 16 décembre 2013 - 07:35 .

[UC SIM]

Yip yip yip again thats another of your threads I've commented on and indeed read, as for the dragon eggs absorbing energy from the fade, that didn't escape me either.

Like I said before I believe the Red Lyrium to be the remnants of some being that the dwarfs of old once worshipped as the "stone" but was forsaken in a truely dire time and used, for this the "Stone" cursed the Dwarfs turning them into the Profane that you encounter in the Primeval Thaig in DA2 act 2. Again our Threadweaving knows no bounds.

[Vulpe]

My own interpretation is that the use of red lyrium affects them in a different way because they are unable to draw energy from The Fade so their body slowly absorbs it from lyrium and that's why they go crazy when near red lyrium - it's like a lightbulb for a fly.

As for the wraith transformation - dwarf spark of life/soul might simply be attracted by lyrium and when they die it goes in it.

Because red lyrium dhas no connection to The Fade, their spark of life posses the stones nearby . Then they survive near red lyrium because it's the only source of energy.These sparks of light might also be altered while the dwarf is still alive.

I'm really curious how the devs will explain red lyrium and maybe lyrium as a whole

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 16 décembre 2013 - 08:15 .

[UC SIM]

JulianWellpit wrote...

My own interpretation is that the use of red lyrium affects them in a different way because they are unable to draw energy from The Fade so their body slowly absorbs it from lyrium and that's why they go crazy when near red lyrium - it's like a lightbulb for a fly.

As for the wraith transformation - dwarf spark of life/soul might simply be attracted by lyrium and when they die it goes in it.

Because red lyrium dhas no connection to The Fade, their spark of life posses the stones nearby . Then they survive near red lyrium because it's the only source of energy.These sparks of light might also be altered while the dwarf is still alive.

I'm really curious how the devs will explain red lyrium and maybe lyrium as a whole

Well I susposed that the Red Lyrium being an entity was enraged by the Dwarfs actions and afterwards held a grudge on all living creatures. Its portrayed in both Bartrand and Merediths corruption so to speak.

'A disturbing poem found scrawled on the walls of Revann Thaig in the Exalted Age implies that when trapped or abandoned aeons ago, the profane "feasted upon the gods." ' 

 ^ This is what makes me think that the Red Lyrium was Sentient. Feasted upon the gods could mean it was used to provide powers. I summerize that something dire happened, the Dwarfs who later became the Profane were facing something they could not defeat, something terrrible. This drove them to do the most horrid of actions and use their god the "stone" to defend themselfs. The "stone" didn't appressiate this and felt it a betrayal.

I love that Bioware allows so much room for speculation with the vagueness they create about subjects in game.

[Bogrot]

Interesting theory. Still, the lyrium seems to be more present very deep underground, appearing as veins within geological strata. It's possible that this "geological" lyrium is a byproduct of the separation between the normal world and the Fade. Thus, lyrium would be both a gate and a key of the Veil, the border of the two worlds.
It's also possible that dragon hibernation produces "biological" lyrium or even red lyrium. Perhaps the Taint originates from infusing demon/abomination corruption in red lyrium.

[Vulpe]

@ UC SIM

Very interesting .I brought the sentient part in the red lyrium thread.l am still not that sure if red lyrium is somehow sentient. I personally need to a little more information before coming to that conclusion.

Until then, I stand by the asumption that the thing that the dwarves call "The Stone" is the lyrium and that they lost this information during the times of the Primeval Thaig.

Also, I think that their "stone sense" is basically them sensing lyrium veins in the stones and they use this to find them or to navigate by analizing their position in relation with the lyrium veins. I might add that do to their blocked ( I think that is blocked, not severed) connection to The Fade, their souls are unable to directly go there when they die, so they merge with lyrium and use it as a conduit between the physical world and The Fade, making lyrium more potent.

As for red lyrium , I think that is an altered type of lyrium (I don't have yet any note-worthy suspect) that is severed from The Fade and can't extract energy from it, so it uses a host body as an evulsion mechanism, extracting energy from it's victim body much faster than the blue one extracts directly from The Fade. Do to this disconnection, the dwarves that ingested red lyrium had their bodies consumed in the end by it and their souls couldn't use it as a transit to The Fade, so they possess rocks and extract their energy from the Red Lyrium that continues to alter them.

That's my personal interpretation of things. As you, I am very curious if red lyrium proves somehow show some kind of crude intellect and how that might affect the world.

@Bogrot

That was my personal belief for some time as well. Still, if I had to compare 1) When The Veil was created, the residual magical energy from the magical world transformed itself in a crystal to respect the physical world's laws ( this were the words I used when I believed the same thing as you) and 2) Lyrium is a byproduct of a biological process of dragons that is created in centuries or even millenia, the second one seemed more plausible because it provided a less ambiguous explanation.

This process could have happened during the pre-Veil and post-Veil times because if the dragons are the source they could have done this during their entire existance, even in those ancient and forgotten times. The world might have changed ( we don't know how long ago that was) and dragons seem to like making their nest underground.

As for its appearance, is highly probable that when the shell reaches a state when it can be considered lyrium and maybe even before ( it can be seen in the picture) it self replicates like any crystal, but not at the speed red lyrium does ( that would be ridiculous ). It would still be a bridge between the physical world and The Fade . I stated that it continously syphons energy from The Fade,be it still in shell or lyrium form, so it's Fade connected.

As for red lyrium, as I stated when answering to UC SIM, I think that is an altered type of lyrium.I still don't have a worthy suspect. At the moment my only speculation is that the dwarves tried to alter it for who knows what reason and their experiment went wrong.

When it comes to The Taint, that is another story for another time.



I want to add that no matter what theories prove to be right ( if any of them is right ) your theories are very interesting and I find this discussions very pleasing and fun 

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 17 décembre 2013 - 04:23 .

[UC SIM]

Bogrot wrote...

Interesting theory. Still, the lyrium seems to be more present very deep underground, appearing as veins within geological strata. It's possible that this "geological" lyrium is a byproduct of the separation between the normal world and the Fade. Thus, lyrium would be both a gate and a key of the Veil, the border of the two worlds.
It's also possible that dragon hibernation produces "biological" lyrium or even red lyrium. Perhaps the Taint originates from infusing demon/abomination corruption in red lyrium.

You know that gave me a thought. When a demon enters the world without a host or looses its host it has the ability to posses trees becoming a Slyvan.
I wonder if that process is possible with Lyrium? - Possesing the Lyrium and in the process corrupting it which in turn turns it red and gives it is extra properties.