56 réponses à ce sujet

[Tron Mega]

tali starts as a lowly quarian nobody and ends being an admiral and just so happens to be the daughter of one of the most important quarians ever.

garrus starts as a c sec officer and ends up being the go to turian leader.

wrex is the son of a krogan leader adn ends up becoming the king of the krogans.

legion starts as a talking robot and ends up being the sacraficial savior of the geth.

......all the while shepard becomes a spectre, and then doesnt, and then does, and then dies.

i think jacob showed more growth then shepard.

do you guys think the writers forgot to talk to eachother and find out that each of their characters coincidentally ended up being the most important individuals in their respective race?

[essarr71]

Isnt that on the player?

If youre talking about accomplishments.. Well.. All those example happen because of Shepards involvement. And theres the whole saving the galaxy a few times, too.

[Hjklop]

To ask if Shepard grows is an interesting question, as essarr said, it probably is on the player depending on how they role play their Shepard.

I take the view that Shepard's character has already developed to it's final point by the time of ME1, he's already mature enough to be a high ranking N7 marine with at least 1 amazing achievement in his life.

[wright1978]

essarr71 wrote...

Isnt that on the player?

If youre talking about accomplishments.. Well.. All those example happen because of Shepards involvement. And theres the whole saving the galaxy a few times, too.

Yeah my Shep certainly developed as a character over the course of 3 games.
As for his rank, well becoming a spectre, dying & joining up with Cerberus stopped any promotions that would have occurred if he'd been forced to remain  an alliance soldier.

[DeinonSlayer]

TheJJBL wrote...

To ask if Shepard grows is an interesting question, as essarr said, it probably is on the player depending on how they role play their Shepard.

I take the view that Shepard's character has already developed to it's final point by the time of ME1, he's already mature enough to be a high ranking N7 marine with at least 1 amazing achievement in his life.

It's entirely on the player and how they RP their Shepard. Do they change their position on anything, or click whatever happens to be at the top of the wheel throughout the entire trilogy?

My most interesting playthrough featured an engineer FemShep who was secretly working for Cerberus all the way through ME1 (skipped the Kahoku arc) and ME2 (doubts following Overlord culminating in destroying the collector base). You can imagine there would be some evolution to such a character.

[Steelcan]

Your examples don't really show any character growth. They characters rise in rank and position, but only a few of them actually 'grow' as a person.

Tali if peace was made, Garrus if encouraged to change his outlook (later made irrelevant), Ashley can become more trusting so that's progress, and Jack which is then forced even if she killed Ahresh.

[Wulfram]

Shepard definitely grows in authority, even if they don't get the formal rank to go with it. They spend the game bossing around heads of state, after all.

As for character growth, that's up to the player

[Matthias King]

One could make the argument that Shepard does grow as a character, independent of the player, simply in terms of accepting his important role as the games progress, especially in ME3.

It's a challenge because Shepard is supposed to be something of a blank slate onto which players can project their own choices and morality, but it still remains that Shepard's importance grows over the three games, as does his role in galactic politics and galactic events, and he accepts that role. That could be viewed as character growth, independent of the player.

That said, I don't think he grew nearly as much as some of the other characters.

[trenq]

Shepard doesn't grow, he makes other people grow.

[His Name was HYR!!]

Disagree, OP. I do feel as though my Shepards generally grew between stories.

Rashad Shepard went from being very by-the-book and diplomatic to full ass-kick mode in ME3.

Jack was a bad influence (and by "bad" I mean "wonderful").

[Matthias King]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Disagree, OP. I do feel as though my Shepards generally grew between stories.

Rashad Shepard went from being very by-the-book and diplomatic to full ass-kick mode in ME3.

Jack was a bad influence (and by "bad" I mean "wonderful").

I could be wrong, but I think the OP was more referring to growth that's not attributable to player choices.  In other words, character growth built into Shepard, regardless of player choices.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

In ME1 and ME2 Shepard was a schizoid brick to act as a self-insert for the player. In ME3 Mac gave Shepard a personality, so from a writing standpoint Shepard had the most growth in ME3. From a player's viewpoint, most players felt that they'd lost "their" Shepard because the character was no longer the exact self-insert. The character felt emotions that "their" Shepard didn't necessarily feel.

Writing a book where a character grows from the beginning to the end, and writing a role playing game where the protagonist and player experience growth in character from beginning to end are two different things. The onus is on the player to grow and understand the story and convey it through the choices of the character.

[justafan]

Like others have said, Shepard doesn't grow in rank, but it is possible to make him grow as a person. He may start out as comparing Geth and synthetics to toasters, only to change his mind through the course of EDI, the Legion loyalty, and Rannoch missions. He may also start as apathetic to the Krogan, only for Wrex to get in his head and convince him a cure is necessary.

Or, he could stay hating, or even come to hate, synthetics, with his views only being strengthened by ME1,2, and 3. He could end up thinking the "destroy all synthetic life" part of destroy is actually a bonus rather than a negative. He may initially be sympathetic to the Krogan, only to have to shoot Wrex when he shows signs of treason, and ultimately finds them a huge threat thanks to Wreav.

It is all up to how the player plays their Shepard and how they go about the dialogue tree. Depending on how you play, you can make a Shepard that shows clear growth, or one who changes very little from start to finish. It's up to you.

[nos_astra]

I don't see any growth there.
Change, yes, most of it badly justified and tacked on to mask how little any of the characters actually develop.

Modifié par klarabella, 13 décembre 2013 - 08:06 .

[Sir DeLoria]

My Shep showed a lot of growth. He was initially neutral towards synthetics and came to hate them(and eventually exterminate them) by ME3. Yay, growth!

[FlyingSquirrel]

Yes, in the sense that some of the squadmates inevitably show some change and development over time, whereas Shepard doesn't necessarily show much depending on the player's choices.

Now that I think about it, my "canon" Shepard probably shows less change over time than some of my other Shepards - she pretty much sticks to the principles she already held in how she approaches the Reapers and other conflicts, and personality-wise she's genial and supportive with the squadmates but a bit socially isolated. The only real change is that she's starting to feel worn down by the end of ME3. (So the dreams and some of the auto-dialogue actually didn't feel too out-of-place in her case - I see the kid as representative of her concerns about civilian casualties and her memories of Mindoir, as opposed to a strong attachment to the kid himself.)

[Hazegurl]

My Shepard has shown growth throughout the story. In ME1 he was brash, reckless, and self entitled. He had a bad past on Torfan but overall very proud of his achievements. He was also a bit of a loner. He disliked aliens and didn't really want them on his ship but talking to Kaidan made him see that they were no different than humans.

ME2: He enjoyed the freedom and responsibility of working with Cerberus even though he didn't approve of them. He realized that having a good reliable crew was more valuable than just tossing meat shields at the enemy while he does all the work. He realized he had friends who looked out for him. Losing a friend (Kaidan) made him realize everything he had lost in the two years he was gone. He was still reckless and most certainly was no bleeding heart but a part of him was beginning to regret his actions on Torfan.

ME3: A wiser and more mature Shepard here. Ending the Reapers became his primary obsession. He once loved being in the Alliance and now he hated it because of back room politics which kept him doing what he could to create a plan to stop the Reapers. He's less reckless and even softer in his words and mannerism, especially when speaking to friends, squadmates, and crew. However, he is still willing to sacrifice anything to end the Reapers.

As for rank. It doesn't matter. It's not like Shepard had the conventional military career.

[Sir DeLoria]

knucks360 wrote...

Necanor wrote...

My Shep showed a lot of growth. He was initially neutral towards synthetics and came to hate them(and eventually exterminate them) by ME3. Yay, growth!

But you at least made good use of the synthies before deactivation right?

If you're asking wether I did the right thing with Legion in ME2, then yes, I got those 50000 credits;)

[DuskWanderer]

It's very hard to determine whether or not Shepard grows simply because Shepard is the audience avatar. he is (supposed) to mimic the player's choices, so that would depend on the player.

I feel as though a number of squadmates matured, notably the VS, Miranda, Jack, all from interaction with Shepard.

[Cknarf]

My Shepard went from "It's okay, tell me about your problems." in ME1 and 2, to " Shut up Kaidan, if you bring up Cerberus one more time I'll stab you." in 3.

After putting up with everyone's BS through two games, he's had enough. Still does the right thing, makes peace when possible, but is done with the whining.

James and Kaidan before mars? Nope. Not dealing with that garbage.

James Vega? Punched in the face.

Han'Gerrel? Punched in the gut.

Miranda's daddy issues? NOPE. Don't care.

Liara? Just friends. Forever. Stop.

[Vigilant111]

I feel that Shepard's character seems to be too consistent to have any major development, apart from being more knowledgeable and gaining more trust from people. The so-called "growth" would be associated with one's resolve and personal strength in Shepard, and they have been fairly constant since the start of ME1, that Shepard was always confident and assertive about anything he or she does (Obviously, the same could not be said about the person controlling the avatar though). You may say that during a particular trilogy run, your Shepard has gone from paragon to renegade as he or she is increasingly hardened by traumatic experiences... not sure if this is an improvement but a development nonetheless

[His Name was HYR!!]

Matthias King wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Disagree, OP. I do feel as though my Shepards generally grew between stories.

Rashad Shepard went from being very by-the-book and diplomatic to full ass-kick mode in ME3.

Jack was a bad influence (and by "bad" I mean "wonderful").

I could be wrong, but I think the OP was more referring to growth that's not attributable to player choices.  In other words, character growth built into Shepard, regardless of player choices.

I see.

I still disagree.

Within ME1 you go from rising star within a human organization to a member of an elite joint-species agency, which is kind of a big deal. ME2 is a bit of a downgrade as they have you working for a covert black-ops group outside of Council space, but fast-forward to the next part, Shepard is all but directing the galactic war effort against the Reapers.

[DeinonSlayer]

My canon Shepard shot Balak in the chest and turned him over to the Alliance in Bring Down The Sky. He then (amidst puzzlement as to how he was released, and why his actions were so benign given his history) recruited him in ME3.



"See how I'm not shooting him? I think I've grown."

:innocent:

[Ieldra]

Shepard does not show any character change because it is the purview of the player to change their behaviour over time, or not. Most of my Shepards did change somewhat, some even changed radically, but apart from characterization implied from in-game decisions, most of that played out in my imagination.

Also, I refuse to call it "growth" because then I'd be making a statement about which kinds of change are good or bad. They simply changed.