169 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

Mirrman70 wrote...

I like the idea of this thread. All of you should just get all the whining and grumbling about day one DLC out of the way so the forum isn't filled with it the day it's announced.

Ha! You're funny. 

As if pre-complaining ever prevented further complaining here on the 'ole BSN.

[Aaleel]

Only one of these that ever upset me was Sebastian's, which was obviously part of the main game. Shale and Javik weren't really part of the story. But the 'Exiled Prince' has A LOT of story elements in it. I believe Leliana appearance is tied to that DLC, as well as the whole thing of trying to get the Grand Cleric to leave the city for safety. Also his threat of bringing an army to Kirkwall is the only thing that would give you pause if you wanted to spare Anders for some reason.

[Rebel Wolf]

Aaleel wrote...

Only one of these that ever upset me was Sebastian's, which was obviously part of the main game. Shale and Javik weren't really part of the story. But the 'Exiled Prince' has A LOT of story elements in it. I believe Leliana appearance is tied to that DLC, as well as the whole thing of trying to get the Grand Cleric to leave the city for safety. Also his threat of bringing an army to Kirkwall is the only thing that would give you pause if you wanted to spare Anders for some reason.

It doesn't bother you he will declare war on kirkwall to punish someone who is right in front of him?

Modifié par Rebel Wolf, 14 décembre 2013 - 11:33 .

[Aaleel]

Rebel Wolf wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Only one of these that ever upset me was Sebastian's, which was obviously part of the main game. Shale and Javik weren't really part of the story. But the 'Exiled Prince' has A LOT of story elements in it. I believe Leliana appearance is tied to that DLC, as well as the whole thing of trying to get the Grand Cleric to leave the city for safety. Also his threat of bringing an army to Kirkwall is the only thing that would give you pause if you wanted to spare Anders for some reason.

It doesn't bother you he will declare war on kirkwall to punish someone who is right in front of him?

I wasn't really talking about thay aspect of it.  I was just saying that if Sebastian isn't there, you have to counterpoint or counter argument.  There's no penatly for allowing the person who set off that chain of events to go unpunished I guess I'll say without Sebastian.  I'm sure there's a better way to explain what I'm trying to say.

[Angrywolves]

Aaleel wrote...

Only one of these that ever upset me was Sebastian's, which was obviously part of the main game. Shale and Javik weren't really part of the story. But the 'Exiled Prince' has A LOT of story elements in it. I believe Leliana appearance is tied to that DLC, as well as the whole thing of trying to get the Grand Cleric to leave the city for safety. Also his threat of bringing an army to Kirkwall is the only thing that would give you pause if you wanted to spare Anders for some reason.

Not sure how much Leliana has to do with that dlc. Kirkwall was problamatic with all the killing in the past and the fact the fade is thin there so stuff from the fade comes through. That could have concerned the chantry, as well as the Qunari being there and refusing to leave of course.

I expect the Inquisitior to actually meet  Sebastian.

[Aaleel]

Angrywolves wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Only one of these that ever upset me was Sebastian's, which was obviously part of the main game. Shale and Javik weren't really part of the story. But the 'Exiled Prince' has A LOT of story elements in it. I believe Leliana appearance is tied to that DLC, as well as the whole thing of trying to get the Grand Cleric to leave the city for safety. Also his threat of bringing an army to Kirkwall is the only thing that would give you pause if you wanted to spare Anders for some reason.

Not sure how much Leliana has to do with that dlc. Kirkwall was problamatic with all the killing in the past and the fact the fade is thin there so stuff from the fade comes through. That could have concerned the chantry, as well as the Qunari being there and refusing to leave of course.

I expect the Inquisitior to actually meet  Sebastian.

She wouldn't have been in the main game at all without it.  She appears in that scene as part of the DLC.  That is a DLC mission.  Without the DLC she would have just walked out in the final cutscene and the player would have been like WTH. 

[DPSSOC]

Nefla wrote...

Man...It must suck to lead the kind of life where $5 or $10 is such a huge deal!

It's not the cost it's the principle I think.  I suspect what the OP is actually complaining about is On-Disc DLC (which does tend to overlap with Day One DLC), content which is already on the disc but you have to pay extra to actually unlock.  Day One DLC can be great, it gives the devs time to polish up stuff that otherwise wouldn't make it into the game, but On-Disk DLC is in almost all cases just dishonest and greedy.  Any content on the disc should be available without further purchase, you paid $60+ bucks for it after all.

[Plaintiff]

^

That's a bit of a logical fallacy right there. Just because something's on the disc doesn't mean it's actually part of the game, or that it should be. It's like saying Missingno should be an official pokemon just because some people found it by exploiting glitches in their game cartridges.

[Magdalena11]

I'll probably do all the DLC I can get my hands on because it adds to the content of the game. Having said that, $10 will feed me for 3 days (I cook from scratch) so wasting money on DLC hurts a bit. I thought Shale was fantastic and loved chatting with her. Sebastian was a bit one-dimensional and I always lose him at the end because I can't murder-knife Anders but I like Repentance. Faith isn't so much fun because I don't enjoy Leliana's appearance but she has her fans so I'll put up with it. I haven't played the ME series so I don't know anything about the other character but if BW decides to release DLC I'll take a chance.

[Laughing_Man]

I promise not to complain if day one DLC is actually good.

[DPSSOC]

Plaintiff wrote...

^

That's a bit of a logical fallacy right there. Just because something's on the disc doesn't mean it's actually part of the game, or that it should be. It's like saying Missingno should be an official pokemon just because some people found it by exploiting glitches in their game cartridges.

If it's on the disc but not part of the game isn't that just wasted space?  I get what you're saying which is why I said content, trying to convey I mean things on the disc intended to be experienced by the players.  If it's on the disc and intended for play, in my mind anyway, it's covered by the $60+ I paid.

To put it in another context if you bought a music CD and someone told you there was a track on the CD you had to pay extra to listen to would you be ok with it?  Would you just shrug it off as a minor purchase or feel kind of cheated because you aren't actually getting anything for your money?  You have the track, it's on the CD, but the artist or label or whoever won't let you listen to it.

[BlazingTornado]

DPSSOC wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

^

That's a bit of a logical fallacy right there. Just because something's on the disc doesn't mean it's actually part of the game, or that it should be. It's like saying Missingno should be an official pokemon just because some people found it by exploiting glitches in their game cartridges.

If it's on the disc but not part of the game isn't that just wasted space?  I get what you're saying which is why I said content, trying to convey I mean things on the disc intended to be experienced by the players.  If it's on the disc and intended for play, in my mind anyway, it's covered by the $60+ I paid.

To put it in another context if you bought a music CD and someone told you there was a track on the CD you had to pay extra to listen to would you be ok with it?  Would you just shrug it off as a minor purchase or feel kind of cheated because you aren't actually getting anything for your money?  You have the track, it's on the CD, but the artist or label or whoever won't let you listen to it.

what? you didn't use a car analogy this is HERESY!

[TK514]

BlazingTornado wrote...

what? you didn't use a car analogy this is HERESY!

Just some friendly advice:

"This is an Outrage!"  Real go-to phrase.  Very versatile, easy to say, got a nice double-tap feel to it.  Out-Rage.  Bam bam.  A phrase to build a career on.

[bclagge]

DPSSOC wrote...

Nefla wrote...

Man...It must suck to lead the kind of life where $5 or $10 is such a huge deal!

It's not the cost it's the principle I think.  I suspect what the OP is actually complaining about is On-Disc DLC (which does tend to overlap with Day One DLC), content which is already on the disc but you have to pay extra to actually unlock.  Day One DLC can be great, it gives the devs time to polish up stuff that otherwise wouldn't make it into the game, but On-Disk DLC is in almost all cases just dishonest and greedy.  Any content on the disc should be available without further purchase, you paid $60+ bucks for it after all.

It's an arbitrary distinction.  You're paying more for additional content either way.

Let me put it to you this way: A dev could just as easily NOT put the DLC on the disc even though it's ready, and make you download it later.  How is that different?

And btw I disagree that day one DLC is great - it's an obvious money grab and the excuse that it gives them more time to polish is malarky.  I'm perfectly ok with DLC, but my problem with the current model is the entire development process is designed around "how much money can we milk out of our fan base."  Games are changing to fit this model.  Like essential plot characters (Javik for example) held hostage.  I would prefer they dedicate all of their development time to creating a great game, and once it's released work on some great followup content - which I would pay for.  They could call it, I dunno... an expansion pack!

[Il Divo]

bclagge wrote...

Like essential plot characters (Javik for example) held hostage. 

How exactly was Javik plot essential? You're not even required to do anything with him, period.

 I would prefer they dedicate all of their development time to creating a great game, and once it's released work on some great followup content - which I would pay for.  They could call it, I dunno... an expansion pack!

What exactly is stopping devs from following the exact same philosophy you outlined via an expansion? They can still easily pull content out from the base game.

[bclagge]

Il Divo wrote...

bclagge wrote...

Like essential plot characters (Javik for example) held hostage. 

How exactly was Javik plot essential? You're not even required to do anything with him, period.

A living Prothean... his story and background cuts deep into the heart of the ME universe.  He wasn't just some random companion that you could give or take. 

 I would prefer they dedicate all of their development time to creating a great game, and once it's released work on some great followup content - which I would pay for.  They could call it, I dunno... an expansion pack!

What exactly is stopping devs from following the exact same philosophy you outlined via an expansion? They can still easily pull content out from the base game.

Expansion VS DLC is again, an arbitrary distinction.  Of course there's no difference.  I was making a throwback to the way they used to produce expansion packs, as opposed to the way they do DLCs today.

Modifié par bclagge, 15 décembre 2013 - 03:21 .

[Il Divo]

bclagge wrote...

A living Prothean... his story and background cuts deep into the heart of the ME universe.  He wasn't just some random companion that you could give or take. 

I'm not denying that Javik radically alters how the player views the Protheans, which is quite different from Liara's romanticized version. But that doesn't make him any less extraneous to ME3's plot. The player can understand all the events of the narrative just as easily in Javik's absence, since he has virtually no knowledge of either the Crucible or the Catalyst. And this is speaking as someone who did two playthroughs of ME3, the first in Javik's absence.

[AlanC9]

bclagge wrote...

Il Divo wrote...
How exactly was Javik plot essential? You're not even required to do anything with him, period.

A living Prothean... his story and background cuts deep into the heart of the ME universe.  He wasn't just some random companion that you could give or take. 

This isn't the same thing as being plot essential even if you were right.

And you're not right. The protheans arent actually very important to the MEU. They're just the last in a long series of Reaper victims. Some prothean scientists did things that were important. Javik did not.

Modifié par AlanC9, 15 décembre 2013 - 03:53 .

[AlanC9]

DPSSOC wrote...

If it's on the disc but not part of the game isn't that just wasted space?  I get what you're saying which is why I said content, trying to convey I mean things on the disc intended to be experienced by the players.  If it's on the disc and intended for play, in my mind anyway, it's covered by the $60+ I paid.

To put it in another context if you bought a music CD and someone told you there was a track on the CD you had to pay extra to listen to would you be ok with it?  Would you just shrug it off as a minor purchase or feel kind of cheated because you aren't actually getting anything for your money?  You have the track, it's on the CD, but the artist or label or whoever won't let you listen to it.

So they should instead make everybody waste bandwidth so you don't feel bad? I suppose they could do that, since bandwidth is just about free.

It's all irrelevant anyway. Discs will go away in a couple of years. There's no reason to put the bits in a box, put the box on a truck, and drive the truck to the player.

Modifié par AlanC9, 15 décembre 2013 - 03:58 .

[valkulon]

The time in between when they send the completed game for certification and the release date. During which they typically make Day One DLC stuff.

Oh wait, you wanted bad information.

When EA tells them to cut X character so they can charge you $$ for Day One DLC.

[AlanC9]

Going back to the original topic...

Plaintiff wrote...

They probably made the decision months and months ago, during the conceptual stages.

That'd be the sensible way. I wonder what went wrong on ME3 that they did it so late. And if Javik wasn't the planned DLC, what was?

[Dean_the_Young]

JasonPogo wrote...

Just wondering at what point they make this important decision?

If the character isn't determiend from the outset, it would be the point where they decide they can either focus on working the character now, or work on other stuff and use the extended DLC cycle to make the character later.

That would happen X months out at one of their regular progress reviews where they see how far they are behind versus how much they think they can do.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

AlanC9 wrote...

Going back to the original topic...

Plaintiff wrote...

They probably made the decision months and months ago, during the conceptual stages.

That'd be the sensible way. I wonder what went wrong on ME3 that they did it so late. And if Javik wasn't the planned DLC, what was?

I thought Javik was originally in the main game & was really important to the story before getting cut & made DLC?

[MissOuJ]

Umm... Day1 DLC doesn't work like that. The studios usually work on D1DLC after the game's gone into certification, so it's not like you (the general you) would get any more content for the same amount of money if D1DLC didn't exist.

And sure, the D1DLC might use some stuff that got cut out of the original game becuase of time / budgeting contrains (of in the case of Javik, because the whole plot was revamped and he became somewhat useless, althought still incredibly ineresting, character) but I find the belief that the development team finishes a game only to take an axe to it and sell the stuf they cut as D1DLC a bit silly, TBQH.