169 réponses à ce sujet

[Secretlyapotato]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Shale turned back from Golem to dwarf would be an obvious choice for a dlc.

What if you killed Shale? (BTW, I didn't, I just told her to take a walk back in Honnleath.)

Made out of rock so you didn't really kill her just made her sleep for awhile/turn back into a dwarf yay!!! ^.^

Modifié par Secretlyapotato, 15 décembre 2013 - 05:58 .

[AlanC9]

Threat300 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
I wonder what went wrong on ME3 that they did it so late. And if Javik wasn't the planned DLC, what was?

I thought Javik was originally in the main game & was really important to the story before getting cut & made DLC?

Exactly. So if that was the original plan for Javik then what was the originally planned DLC?

[MissOuJ]

Threat300 wrote...

I thought Javik was originally in the main game & was really important to the story before getting cut & made DLC?

If memory serves... yeah: in the early story drafts Javik was a really big part of the plot (apparently, I never actually read the leaked scripts) but it was scrapped because (again, apparently) his importance made Shepard nothing but "glorified bodyguard" (again, not my words), and as the development progressed, he became more and more irrelevant to the plot, and (since all content costs time & money to make) was in the danger of getting the axe. But, since he still was a really cool character, they decided to turn him into D1DLC / Collector's Edition extra.

And I for one am happy that they did just that.

Disclaimer: I was pretty active on the ME3 board during and after this whole kerfuffle, and there were many people who had read the leaked stuff also commenting, and I am passing on what I remember reading on the topic back then. So this might not be 100% right, and I might be misremembering things.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 15 décembre 2013 - 06:11 .

[DRTJR]

I thought Zaeed, Javik, Shale, and Sebastian were some of the best characters. Zaeed and Javik were the best characters in the ME universe.

[DPSSOC]

bclagge wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Nefla wrote...
Man...It must suck to lead the kind of life where $5 or $10 is such a huge deal!

It's not the cost it's the principle I think.  I suspect what the OP is actually complaining about is On-Disc DLC (which does tend to overlap with Day One DLC), content which is already on the disc but you have to pay extra to actually unlock.  Day One DLC can be great, it gives the devs time to polish up stuff that otherwise wouldn't make it into the game, but On-Disk DLC is in almost all cases just dishonest and greedy.  Any content on the disc should be available without further purchase, you paid $60+ bucks for it after all.

It's an arbitrary distinction.  You're paying more for additional content either way.

Let me put it to you this way: A dev could just as easily NOT put the DLC on the disc even though it's ready, and make you download it later.  How is that different?

It's not, they're both equally dishonest.

bclagge wrote...
And btw I disagree that day one DLC is great - it's an obvious money grab and the excuse that it gives them more time to polish is malarky.  I'm perfectly ok with DLC, but my problem with the current model is the entire development process is designed around "how much money can we milk out of our fan base."  Games are changing to fit this model.  Like essential plot characters (Javik for example) held hostage.  I would prefer they dedicate all of their development time to creating a great game, and once it's released work on some great followup content - which I would pay for.  They could call it, I dunno... an expansion pack!

Note I said it can be great.  If there's something the dev team really wants to put in the game but doesn't have the time to do so Day One DLC is a great way for them to get it in, rather than just scrapping it.  That's a great use of Day One DLC because it gets the players content that wouldn't have been included in the game without the extra time.  In short Day One DLC can be great if it's used to get extra content to the players, rather than hold content hostage.

AlanC9 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
If it's on the disc but not part of the game isn't that just wasted space?  I get what you're saying which is why I said content, trying to convey I mean things on the disc intended to be experienced by the players.  If it's on the disc and intended for play, in my mind anyway, it's covered by the $60+ I paid.

To put it in another context if you bought a music CD and someone told you there was a track on the CD you had to pay extra to listen to would you be ok with it?  Would you just shrug it off as a minor purchase or feel kind of cheated because you aren't actually getting anything for your money?  You have the track, it's on the CD, but the artist or label or whoever won't let you listen to it.

So they should instead make everybody waste bandwidth so you don't feel bad? I suppose they could do that, since bandwidth is just about free.

No, they (industry they I don't know if/when Bioware has done this) should stop engaging in this BS practice.  If content is ready to be shipped with the rest of the game it shouldn't be partitioned off or cut out to charge extra for later (as this is dishonest and needlessly greedy).  However they (again industry they) won't because we, as consumers, have agreed to go along with it.

[Angrywolves]

The dlc shouldn't be on the disc.If the dlc is already on the disc and you have to pay extra for the code to unlock it then I consider that improper.

[Sir JK]

DPSSOC wrote...

Note I said it can be great.  If there's something the dev team really wants to put in the game but doesn't have the time to do so Day One DLC is a great way for them to get it in, rather than just scrapping it.  That's a great use of Day One DLC because it gets the players content that wouldn't have been included in the game without the extra time.  In short Day One DLC can be great if it's used to get extra content to the players, rather than hold content hostage.

No, they (industry they I don't know if/when Bioware has done this) should stop engaging in this BS practice.  If content is ready to be shipped with the rest of the game it shouldn't be partitioned off or cut out to charge extra for later (as this is dishonest and needlessly greedy).  However they (again industry they) won't because we, as consumers, have agreed to go along with it.

Uh...Am I misunderstanding you here or are you saying that all Day One DLC should be free?

Angrywolves wrote...

The dlc shouldn't be on the disc.If
the dlc is already on the disc and you have to pay extra for the code to
unlock it then I consider that improper.

So if they purged all traces of the DLC from the discs and pretended it was never supposed to be on them, it's okay?

[Angrywolves]

uh no.
Capcom had the practice on a game I recall where the dlc was already on the disc.
Eh, you're trying to misinterpret what I said.
shrugs.

Modifié par Angrywolves, 15 décembre 2013 - 07:17 .

[Hiemoth]

AlanC9 wrote...

Threat300 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
I wonder what went wrong on ME3 that they did it so late. And if Javik wasn't the planned DLC, what was?

I thought Javik was originally in the main game & was really important to the story before getting cut & made DLC?

Exactly. So if that was the original plan for Javik then what was the originally planned DLC?

Where has it been stated that Javik was ever going to be really important for the original plot? The only statement on the effect was someone's claim that Javik was originally going to be the Conduit, but that was quickly discredited as a fan theory.

This is out of honest curiosity, because before this the only statements from the devs I've read was that Javik was the traditional DLC character: They had an idea for a character, realized they had to remove something from development due to time constraints and set the character aside for DLC development as he had the least impact on the main plot of the character pool. From what I understood, the only data relating to him on disc was the placeholder for him in the character selection screen, which was something that they also needed to do with the DLC character in ME2.

As for the OP question, they've probably already made that decision as they should be that far in development that they could see what they couldn't get ready in time and detached it for a DLC project.

[DarthSliver]

Aaleel wrote...

Only one of these that ever upset me was Sebastian's, which was obviously part of the main game. Shale and Javik weren't really part of the story. But the 'Exiled Prince' has A LOT of story elements in it. I believe Leliana appearance is tied to that DLC, as well as the whole thing of trying to get the Grand Cleric to leave the city for safety. Also his threat of bringing an army to Kirkwall is the only thing that would give you pause if you wanted to spare Anders for some reason.

Actually I think you are wrong on Javik, I heard that he was more story centric in Mass Effect 3 and was going to be the character you needed to stop the Reapers- the original Catalyst in ME3. Then it goes that he was cut down to dlc because they felt Javik overshadowed Shepard.


Also per topic I dont mind if there is Day 1 dlc, I just want the dlc to be free for new order purchases. Those are the kind of dlcs that make me buy games new instead of used.  

[Plaintiff]

People keep approaching this from the assumption that, without DLC, content would just be included automatically in the base game.

I don't think that's true. I think that, without DLC, the content wouldn't be made, period.

[DPSSOC]

Sir JK wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
Note I said it can be great.  If there's something the dev team really wants to put in the game but doesn't have the time to do so Day One DLC is a great way for them to get it in, rather than just scrapping it.  That's a great use of Day One DLC because it gets the players content that wouldn't have been included in the game without the extra time.  In short Day One DLC can be great if it's used to get extra content to the players, rather than hold content hostage.

No, they (industry they I don't know if/when Bioware has done this) should stop engaging in this BS practice.  If content is ready to be shipped with the rest of the game it shouldn't be partitioned off or cut out to charge extra for later (as this is dishonest and needlessly greedy).  However they (again industry they) won't because we, as consumers, have agreed to go along with it.

Uh...Am I misunderstanding you here or are you saying that all Day One DLC should be free?

You are.  The BS practice is not Day One DLC it's On-Disk.  If all the content for the "DLC" is on the disc and the company is charging to unlock the content that's BS.  If content cannot be finished in time to ship with the game (even things like characters and quests/missions), is completed while the game is in final production (after the game is finished but before it's sold in stores), and sold as Day One DLC rather than just being scrapped, that's great and I have no issue with companies charging for that because time and resources were used beyond the production of the boxed game.

[Fredward]

Plaintiff wrote...
People keep approaching this from the assumption that, without DLC, content would just be included automatically in the base game.

I don't think that's true. I think that, without DLC, the content wouldn't be made, period.

Which is just sensible. Except Day One DLC's. Those just seem like capitalism to the max.

[Red Panda]

I don't suppose it hurts to have additional optional content so you can have more choices.


Still, this thread seems like a big negative snowball, a big rolling fanged snowball.

[Fredward]

OperatingWookie wrote...
Still, this thread seems like a big negative snowball, a big rolling fanged snowball.

That is also on fire.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

They consult a giant roulette wheel with a chicken in place of a ball.

[AlanC9]

Hiemoth wrote...
Where has it been stated that Javik was ever going to be really important for the original plot? The only statement on the effect was someone's claim that Javik was originally going to be the Conduit, but that was quickly discredited as a fan theory.

He does seem to have originally fulfilled Vendetta's role. (The rumor that he was originally supposed to be the Catalyst is based on a misreading of who's saying what in the leaked script) I don't know how important this makes him, but someone has to fill that role. AFAIK Bio did not intend to sub in something for Javik the way Padok Wiks subs in for a dead Mordin.

[AlanC9]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
People keep approaching this from the assumption that, without DLC, content would just be included automatically in the base game.

I don't think that's true. I think that, without DLC, the content wouldn't be made, period.

Which is just sensible. Except Day One DLC's. Those just seem like capitalism to the max.

I don't see the difference. Why would a game without projected day 1 DLC revenue get the same production budget as the same game with that projected revenue?

[AlanC9]

DPSSOC wrote...
You are.  The BS practice is not Day One DLC it's On-Disk.  If all the content for the "DLC" is on the disc and the company is charging to unlock the content that's BS.  If content cannot be finished in time to ship with the game (even things like characters and quests/missions), is completed while the game is in final production (after the game is finished but before it's sold in stores), and sold as Day One DLC rather than just being scrapped, that's great and I have no issue with companies charging for that because time and resources were used beyond the production of the boxed game.

You do realize the perverse incentives this sets up, right?

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

I realy hate on disc DLC Capcom sucks at this just look at Marvel vs Capcom for example.
im fine with day 1 DLC as long as it is worth it mind.

[Plaintiff]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
People keep approaching this from the assumption that, without DLC, content would just be included automatically in the base game.

I don't think that's true. I think that, without DLC, the content wouldn't be made, period.

Which is just sensible. Except Day One DLC's. Those just seem like capitalism to the max.

They seem like it, yes, but I'm still fairly sure that even Day 1 DLC is content that we would not be getting if the DLC business model didn't exist.

People are going to point to Shale, and say "this is how it should be done, if it has to be done at all", but the fact is that doing extra work and giving it away for free is simply not a sustainable business practice.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 16 décembre 2013 - 01:21 .

[Aaleel]

Plaintiff wrote...

People keep approaching this from the assumption that, without DLC, content would just be included automatically in the base game.

I don't think that's true. I think that, without DLC, the content wouldn't be made, period.

Well I have to back to the Sebastian example for this point.  Do you think that the vanilla game without DLC had no foreshadowing of Leliana?  She was just going to walk out in the final cutscene from nowhere?  Or that there was really no content in the vanilla game of the whole storyline of you learning about a rogue mage faction, and then trying to urge the grand cleric to leave the city for her own safety.

A lot of the storyline of the 3rd act was the DLC.  I've didn't play the game without it but the last act and ending had to seem unfinished without the DLC.

[Thomas Andresen]

I don't think that's true. I think that, without DLC, the content wouldn't be made, period.

What is true is that DLC often utilise content that have been cut from the main game. But what's wrong about the assumption here is that content get cut specifically to make the DLC.

If it wasn't for DLC, Shale would have been a half-baked character hidden within the game files, and you'd have terribad community mods "fixing" it like with KOTOR2 and the "Restored Content" Mod.

Instead, with DLC, we have the original developers finishing and polishing content that otherwise wouldn't have been completed in time to make it into the main game.

[JustAnotherZero]

If I were EA... I wouldn't be trying to pull a fast one on their customers. Things are looking bad for EA right now with all the BF4 troubles.

[Nefla]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Nefla wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...

Nefla wrote...

Man...It must suck to lead the kind of life where $5 or $10 is such a huge deal!

It must suck to be the kind of person who enjoys paying money for things that suck.
If it was a companion like Shale I would gladly pay,but Sebastian was just awful.

If I buy a sandwich and it's gross, I pull a face, cut my (tiny) losses and move on with my life. I don't harp on a disappointing cheap purchase years later. Also though I enjoyed Sebastian a lot, (surprise! people have different opinions!)if I were so afraid of wasting my lunch money on him, I would have taken 5 seconds to look at YouTube clips of him and his DLC before deciding to buy. 

You are the type of person who would gladly pay an extra 2 bucks to have bread put on his sandwhich because hey, it's just two dollars.

I'm the type of person who would pay $2 to put bacon or something extra and unneccesary on her sandwich. Without bread it isn't a sandwich, bread is the most important component. I doubt anyone would say that DA2 was unplayable without Sebastian's DLC, etc...Your analogy is flawed. A sandwich without bread would be like a game completely without sound or interactivity, and that's hardly what day 1 DLC characters are.