549 réponses à ce sujet

[SlottsMachine]

Basically people take this **** way to serious, its a gaming forum. We all have our priorities all ****ed up.

[AlanC9]

Wake me up when it's time for the feats of strength.

[Br3admax]

Lebdood wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

You're again assuming that your mayor does not understand. Has it accured that he does not care? That seeing what it is like to be gay will not change his mind?  Also you are also making the assumption that "Americans" are all in similar areas with similar ideas. Perhaps it is you that has a colored view of us. There is no such thing as a typical American. 

You would know this how? Have youi magically transplanted yourself into someone else's brain to live in their shoes?

You're arguing hypotheticals with me when I have already said it was all wishful thinking.

Yes, but I but I'm kind of a cynic if you couldn't tell. At this point in history I assume that if a person still wants to pretend that it is 1498, then yes, they simply do not care.

---

Also it was a fair assumption to assume that most Americans do not know what it was like to grow up in a place like Lebanon because they have, simply, have not.

Your most homophobic town still has no right to lynch a gay person in public. People in Uganda get executed for it.

So I will generalize Americans and say that they, generally, would not approve of beating someone for who they are.

Was I wrong by generalizing the typical American in that regard?

You're on the internet right now. Google search the Deep South. Better yet, let me do it for you, 

There is no typical America, and there are plenty of bssaackwards people here. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 15 décembre 2013 - 06:15 .

[Hazegurl]

hhh89 wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

I want all romanceable companions to be available to both genders. It's not Bw's fault some people don't know how to role play on a role playing game.

Bioware's stance on the matter seems different, though. Gaider stated that his goal was always to give multiple choices to everyone, not all the LI available to everyone. The reason why they went in DA2 route (and it'd be the same for DAI, if they follow DA2 route) was because it was a compromise between his/their favourite approach (multiple LI with different sexualities and multiple choices for everyone) and the fact that they had/have limited resources.

Gaider also seems to think that anyone who has an issue with all romances being available should just deal with it. Besides, people are going to create mods to make any unavailable romanceable character available to their gender anyway. I really don't see the point in keeping away content and forcing players to download mods for it.

Modifié par Hazegurl, 15 décembre 2013 - 06:17 .

[Lebanese Dude]

Br3ad wrote...
Yes, but I but I'm kind of a cynic if you couldn't tell. 

I did but you also seem like a rational person who I can have a decent conversation so I keep replying 

You're on the internet right now. Google search the Deep South. Better yet, let me do it for you, 

There is no typical America, and there are plenty of bssaackwards people here. 

Well first of all there are always discrepencies. It's still a safe assumption that Americans believe in liberty for all people. Whether people agree that some facets of humanity should be at liberty is another thing.

Still, even a Deep South man won't shoot a gay man and get away with it with a pat on the shoulder from the government. You have federal hate crime laws instituted.

We don't, so we can't afford to be indifferent and move to another state where things are better.

[Hazegurl]

IMO, it was the best route to take. Most people don't even want to be cluttered up with companions. So keeping companion count reasonable will satisfy most players.

[Lebanese Dude]

EntropicAngel wrote...
Gaider has ALSO mentioned that he would prefer to have roughly equal numbers of each, as opposed to player-sexual. He's said that player-sexuality was used to save resources.

I find it a fair compromise. don't you?

Frankly, I don't even care if there aren't equal opportunities for all sexual orientations. I just want a decent amount for everyone. I'm still pressed over not being able to romance the one Kaidan in ME1, and unable to romance any human being besides Kaidan as a female Shepard in ME3.

[Fredward]

Everyone got Merrill, Fenris, Isabela and Anders. Straight females (kinda) got Sebastian. Everyone got to flirt with Tallis. Clearly Bioware hates everyone who isn't a straight female. Nah, sorry OP I'm not buying what you're selling. Equality doesn't mean a perfect statistical distribution of options and no one got shafted in DA2. Or DAO for that matter.

[Thrillian]

General Slotts wrote...

Basically people take this **** way to serious, its a gaming forum. We all have our priorities all ****ed up.

That is really easy for a straight male (I'm assuming)  or a straight female (me) to say; but is it really that hard to empathize with people who are gay or bisexual?  I don't have a hard time with it.

Anyway, it's easy to say other people take something too seriously when your own gender and orientation has been pandered to throughout gaming history.

It's easy for me to say "yeah, the romances have been great so far" since I am one of the sexualities being pandered to.  That also strikes me, the argument that including all bisexual romances is pandering to a certain demographic, isn't that what the all straight romances were doing (or giving straight people 2 options while gay people had one)?  At what point does it become pandering?  When it doesn't agree with your point of view and you can use it against your cause?

I just want equality for everyone, and since David Gaider himself said he wants the same but due to monetary restrictions it isn't necessarily possible without every LI being playersexual. well that's the way it will probably be.

[leaguer of one]

Why is it an issue that the women li go for men and woman? You complaining over this is like a guy complaining about all the ex his girl friend use to have.

This is not an issue op.

[Lebanese Dude]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Lebdood wrote...

I find it a fair compromise. don't you?

Frankly, I don't even care if there aren't equal opportunities for all sexual orientations. I just want a decent amount for everyone. I'm still pressed over not being able to romance the one Kaidan in ME1, and unable to romance any human being besides Kaidan as a female Shepard in ME3.

Because I find the idea of player-sexuality a bad one, I can't agree.

Why? We can so easily play different Hawkes with different genders and classes, but we can't allow Merrill to be infatuated with any form of Hawke?  As far as you know, all four LIs in DA2 had the hots for your character. That's it. No "playersexuality". How would you know that Merrill is playersexual if you haven't played the game more than once?

The question is:

Can't you just assume alternate realities for different characters? Isn't that what you're essentially doing when replaying a game differently?

We accept that Bethany will survive the opening events because you picked a rogue, but Anders is not allowed to be gay if you choose to be a male?

I see some discrepency in our logic here.

Modifié par Lebdood, 15 décembre 2013 - 06:42 .

[Br3admax]

[quote]Lebdood wrote...

[quote]Br3ad wrote...
Yes, but I but I'm kind of a cynic if you couldn't tell. 

[/quote]

I did but you also seem like a rational person who I can have a decent conversation so I keep replying 
[/quote]
So do you. I get that this is something personal to you, I'm just of a like of mind that everything is personal, so I let nothing be.
[quote]
You're on the internet right now. Google search the Deep South. Better yet, let me do it for you, 

There is no typical America, and there are plenty of bssaackwards people here. 

[/quote]

Well first of all there are always discrepencies. It's still a safe assumption that Americans believe in liberty for all people. Whether people agree that some facets of humanity should be at liberty is another thing.

Still, even a Deep South man won't shoot a gay man and get away with it with a pat on the shoulder from the government. You have federal hate crime laws instituted.

We don't, so we can't afford to be indifferent and move to another state where things are better.

[/quote]
Here's an issue of national vs. state law. Trust me, before our national government came down with the mighty hammer of Thor, things like lynchings and public executions happened all the time. Sometimes they still do. Social media has stopped that, but the backwards people are still there.

Also, to stay on topic: I'm fine with the characters being bisexual, as I have said before. I just as long as it's show that they are in their behavior. I'm just not a fan of complete PC control of everything, I'll be fine either way, I just would prefer it if characters were characters with or without my input. 

[KC_Prototype]

BobZilla 2k10 wrote...

I don't really like the Playersexual choice but I can deal with it but I do wish Bioware would follow the Harvest Moon Approach that being you the pc does all the wooing and not the LIs that way the end result would be the one you wanted and not one you don't "Ninjamances".I am looking forward to this Playersexual Garbage for one reason only that being choice so in DAI I won't suffer another Samantha Traynor situation I wanted to romance her with my Male Shepard.

That was complete gold! I was cracking up when Samantha shut down my Male Shepard's advance to the bed. I was like, "****, I'm Commander Shepard! You can't say no to me!".

[Lebanese Dude]

Br3ad wrote...

Here's an issue of national vs. state law. Trust me, before our national government came down with the mighty hammer of Thor, things like lynchings and public executions happened all the time. Sometimes they still do. Social media has stopped that, but the backwards people are still there.

Truth.

Also, to stay on topic: I'm fine with the characters being bisexual, as I have said before. I just as long as it's show that they are in their behavior. I'm just not a fan of complete PC control of everything, I'll be fine either way, I just would prefer it if characters were characters with or without my input. 

What do you mean by "behavior"? Do you mean stereotypes or are you implying that you want them to literally show you that they are bisexual through some conversation or background check?

[wolfhowwl]

Hazegurl wrote...

Gaider also seems to think that anyone who has an issue with all romances being available should just deal with it. Besides, people are going to create mods to make any unavailable romanceable character available to their gender anyway. I really don't see the point in keeping away content and forcing players to download mods for it.

Gaider has said a lot of things.

David Gaider...

Ah. This exact same question came up on the KotOR board, and my opinion on it is unchanged: it's not the same at all. If someone wants to go into the toolset and remove the gender checks, that's their choice. But that's not the way I wrote the romance, nor would I ever choose to write it that way. A romance between two characters of the same sex is not interchangeable with a straight romance, in my opinion... we do not live in a genderless world and neither do they, and to treat it as such would be to trivialize it. If there's going to be a gay romance then it should be with a gay character, and he or she should not be interested in getting involved with a member of the opposite sex (such as with the lesbian romance in KotOR). Removing gender checks might seem convenient
on the surface, but I'm not going to do it... the reasons to do so seem to me to lie far more in the realm of titillation than in any kind of sensitivity to our gay audience.

Link

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 15 décembre 2013 - 06:51 .

[KC_Prototype]

I don't want playersexual LIs but if that's the case, let me take the Zevran route where I can be nice and say something like, "Thank you, but I don't swing that way". I would also like to let other companions aware of my attraction/advancing on a LI.

[leaguer of one]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Lebdood wrote...

Why? We can so easily play different Hawkes with different genders and classes, but we can't allow Merrill to be infatuated with any form of Hawke?

The question is:

Can't you just assume alternate realities for different characters? Isn't that what you're essentially doing when replaying a game differently?

Your question hits to the exact heart of it--it's alternate realities.

The problem is that it's an alternate reality based on who you are as a person--male or female. There's a segment of their personality, who they are, however you want to define sexual orientation--that's defined by the player character. I'm not a fan of the player character having any more control over the game world than would be natural.

Wait? How is being gay or straight a personality? A personality is something that develps and changes over time. A sexual preferance is something perdetermide from birth. You can't tell who is what with personality at all being that any sexuality can have any presonality. It very bias to say that the person has to act like their sexuality to be it. A straight person can have any personality, the defining quality of the personality of a straight person?
A bi person can have any personality, the defining quality of the personality of a bi person? 
A gay person can have any personality, the defining quality of the personality of a gay person? 

[Thrillian]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Lebdood wrote...

Why? We can so easily play different Hawkes with different genders and classes, but we can't allow Merrill to be infatuated with any form of Hawke?

The question is:

Can't you just assume alternate realities for different characters? Isn't that what you're essentially doing when replaying a game differently?

Your question hits to the exact heart of it--it's alternate realities.

The problem is that it's an alternate reality based on who you are as a person--male or female. There's a segment of their personality, who they are, however you want to define sexual orientation--that's defined by the player character. I'm not a fan of the player character having any more control over the game world than would be natural.

This is quite easily fixed by making every LI bisexual, yes?  In DA:2 they were all playersexual but if in DA:I they are all bisexual, then your protagonists gender will have no bearing on the NPC's sexual orientation or personality whatsoever. Problem solved!