549 réponses à ce sujet

[esper]

Hazegurl wrote...

If you pick a female or male as your gender in the character creator it is a choice.

edit:Mind you I prefer that all LIs be available. Just give us different romance content based on gender/sexuality combos. They did a bit of this with the Anders relationship. He doesn't mention Karl as his lover to a female Hawke. I say expand on that. Give us totally different but equal content and experiences with the LIs and even nonromancable companions depending on the gender and sexuality and lock out other romance content. If a player wishes to experience the gay or straight specific content with an LI then they should choose the gender needed to have it but don't lock out the romance to the character completely. I think that approach could make everyone happy.

I actually like how they did it. Anders have a completely different romance male/female. There might be some unfortunate implications in it, but I can put them to the character and not the writer.

Some people thinks that Isabella have a different romance as female than as male. I don't know that as I never played it.

Merrill have slightly different concerns. With a female Hawke she talks about looking up to her (ie a bit of an idol crush) while she with a male talks about dalish-human couplings. It was not a huge difference but it was there.

Fenris was almost completely gender blind in his attitude.

I think the variables in the LI's there was nice. Because some people are genderblind and some aren't.

[ignoreality]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

ignoreality wrote...

[choices => consequences]
I totally agree with you on this. After all, if there are no consequences, then the choices are moot. However, I still vote that if you choose path A as opposed to path B, you should get a comparable amount of content on the chosen path. Different, sure, but still something; because not everyone is capable of distancing themselves from the character they play enough, neither they should have to. (All with a good dose of IMO.)

It would be cool to have an equal number of options for people of all orientations. The issue there, of course, is making all of those choices good and intersting ones. Don't stick people with only Zev. I mean Zev is cool and all, but he's kinda boring too.

Don't diss Zev, he has feelings too!

And the first two sentences of your reply are exactly why I like the approach where the LI's have Schroedinger's sexuality. The perfect solution is unobtainable, therefore a compromise must be made. 

Modifié par ignoreality, 15 décembre 2013 - 06:49 .

[Plaintiff]

ignoreality wrote...

spirosz wrote...

ignoreality wrote...

forced to play opposite gender to experience a romance plot?

Because the writers chose to write characters with certain mindsets, beliefs, sexual preferences and all that jazz, which will either workout for the PC or not.  

Or is that not fair for the character's portrayal as well? 

I said "a romance plot", not "a specific romance plot". Since 2+ LIs per gender/sexuality combo is not going to happen, I advocate for the next best thing.

Besides, I don't see how not wearing their sexual preference on their sleeve has hurt DA2 characters any. Clearly we can have NPCs with awesome personalities even without stamping 'straight' or 'gay' on their foreheads.

Because straight romances are a bold and innovative artistic decision, while gay/bi romances are transparent pandering to the lowest common denominator for a quick buck. Just like the Call of Duty series, which is positively swarming with homos.

[Mr.House]

Lebdood wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

It take it it's also realistic if you are a complete bastard and oppose him the whole game you can then jump into bed with him too? "Dat realism"

A common fantasy among young females is the bad boy who is all badass and a complete jerk to everyone including them. Isn't that realistic or are hundreds of teenage movies rendered invalid? 

Also it's called a rivalry romance for a reason. You can fall in love with someone despite their ideologies. It doesn't necessarily mean it's going to go anywhere.

Being a bad boy and treating a person like doggie crap then jumping their bone is NOT the same thing. When I can outright tell Anders and his ilk should be caged then have him wanting to jump my bone, ya....

[Lebanese Dude]

Plaintiff wrote...
Just like the Call of Duty series, which is positively swarming with homos.

Hey!

I played CoD with my gay friends a lot 

[Lebanese Dude]

[quote]Mr.House wrote...

[/quote]Being a bad boy and treating a person like doggie crap then jumping their bone is NOT the same thing. When I can outright tell Anders and his ilk should be caged then have him wanting to jump my bone, ya....
[/quote]

It's not a perfect analogy but it makes similar sense. Not agreeing with their ideologies doesn't make them completely unattractive. What about Republicans vs Democrats (an American example).

Also: gameplay mechanics.

[daveliam]

General Slotts wrote...
Your just hand waving there sexual orientation away.

That is absolutely not what is happening at all.  Gaider has specifically stated that the DA 2 LIs are BISEXUAL, not playersexual.  That is not "waving their sexual orientation away".  It is the opposite of that, in fact, by clearly stating that they have a defined sexuality.  It is a conscious decision by the writers of the story to create characters that they will be romanceable and then choosing to have those characters be bisexual in order to maximize the availability for all of the players.  While it's not my preferred method, it's absolutely in no way whatsoever "waving away their sexual orientation".

Modifié par daveliam, 15 décembre 2013 - 06:56 .

[esper]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

@esper, Yeah, it's as daveliam pointed out, ending up with someone doesn't necessairly define your sexuality, it just means you settled down with the person on this planet that you liked the most. If anything, bis just have more options to choose from, lol.

I would just like to eccho daveliams point about it being nice you are so open to discussing it. And sorry for taking so long to replay - not english speaking means that sometimes crafting a reply can take time.

[daveliam]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

 If anything, bis just have more options to choose from, lol.

I've always envied them for that.  I just can't get past the lady-parts.....

[spirosz]

ignoreality wrote...

spirosz wrote...

ignoreality wrote...

forced to play opposite gender to experience a romance plot?

Because the writers chose to write characters with certain mindsets, beliefs, sexual preferences and all that jazz, which will either workout for the PC or not.  

Or is that not fair for the character's portrayal as well? 

I said "a romance plot", not "a specific romance plot". Since 2+ LIs per gender/sexuality combo is not going to happen, I advocate for the next best thing.

Besides, I don't see how not wearing their sexual preference on their sleeve has hurt DA2 characters any. Clearly we can have NPCs with awesome personalities even without stamping 'straight' or 'gay' on their foreheads.

When did I say it hurt anything?  A romance needing specifics from the player is still a viable romance, regardless if the character rejects you because you are female/male/whatever - your political mindset, even your actions or personality displayed throughout the game.   If it's your first playthrough and you decide to go for a specific character but find out that they have their own mindset and preference and it can't pursue any further, then you have to deal with this.  I've met a few women in my life that I've fallen for and seen happen because of their sexual preference, but that's fine - and you know why?  Because they shouldn't revolve around me just because I want something.  It is Bioware's decision on how they'll write and develop chararcters and they have to keep in mind with budget, how it will tie in with the game itself.  Believe me when I say that I would not mind at all if Bioware all of the sudden decided to write a whole cast exclusively not being straight - it would sadden me if a character was interesting and I wouldn't to pursue it further, but those characters are their own person.  

Personally, I'd love to see a small cast of characters throughout Inquistion who are gay, straight, bi and whatever Bioware wants to create, but I understand that there will be roadblocks in the game, just as similar as life itself.    

[Akka le Vil]

osbornep wrote...

Mostly, I'm in agreement with this guy about the fixation on complete plot consistency and logic. Sure it's nice to have, but given the list of things that have to go right in order for any game to go well (theme, symbolism, characterization, gameplay, visuals, etc.), I tend to think that when there has to be a tradeoff between these values, plot logic falls closer to the bottom of the list than the top.

I tend to see such things as anathema (two of my most loathed pseudo-arguments are "between fun and realism, we have chosen fun", as if one was exclusive to the other, and "you complain that X isn't realist, but Y isn't either !", which is just such a stupid reasoning on all levels I need an aspirin when I hear about it).

Of course, it depends on the setting. I can temporarily shut out my critical thinking if needed, and appreciate many kind of work, but it doesn't mean that the same work with a tighter grasp on verisimilitude wouldn't be better.

[Akka le Vil]

daveliam wrote...

That is absolutely not what is happening at all.  Gaider has specifically stated that the DA 2 LIs are BISEXUAL, not playersexual.

Actually, he said exactly the opposite...

[spirosz]

Honest question, who here thought that Jack was going to be a straight male romance based off the previews?

[Mr.House]

spirosz wrote...

Honest question, who here thought that Jack was going to be a straight male romance based off the previews?

We already know the devs decided to change their mind regarding Jack my dear spirosz.

[esper]

Lebdood wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

It take it it's also realistic if you are a complete bastard and oppose him the whole game you can then jump into bed with him too? "Dat realism"

A common fantasy among young females is the bad boy who is all badass and a complete jerk to everyone including them. Isn't that realistic or are hundreds of teenage movies rendered invalid? 

Also it's called a rivalry romance for a reason. You can fall in love with someone despite their ideologies. It doesn't necessarily mean it's going to go anywhere.

I have actually yet to meet a woman who has this lust towards a real life 'bad boy'. Not saying they don't exist, but attraction is not nearly as wide spread in real life and a lot labeled bad boyes are labelled so by nice guys who define anyone with a bit of self esteem as a bad boy.

As for the attraction towards fictional evil figure it is different. Evil is cool and sexy in narratives and fictional person are easier to sit back an be attracted to since they never hurt you personally. And guys like 'bad woman' just as much.

So yes. Hundred of teen movies are compeltely invalid. (I don't know if you were being sarcastic or not, but a lot of people talk about this bad boy fantasy and I have rarely seen anyone actually take it beyond a fantasy in real life.)

That said, the rival romances, especially Anders does work in my opion. Anders because, as much as I like his character, I do think he is a bit obsessed wiht Hawke and obessessed people don't always see clearly.

[Hazegurl]

esper wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

If you pick a female or male as your gender in the character creator it is a choice.

edit:Mind you I prefer that all LIs be available. Just give us different romance content based on gender/sexuality combos. They did a bit of this with the Anders relationship. He doesn't mention Karl as his lover to a female Hawke. I say expand on that. Give us totally different but equal content and experiences with the LIs and even nonromancable companions depending on the gender and sexuality and lock out other romance content. If a player wishes to experience the gay or straight specific content with an LI then they should choose the gender needed to have it but don't lock out the romance to the character completely. I think that approach could make everyone happy.

I actually like how they did it. Anders have a completely different romance male/female. There might be some unfortunate implications in it, but I can put them to the character and not the writer.

Some people thinks that Isabella have a different romance as female than as male. I don't know that as I never played it.

Merrill have slightly different concerns. With a female Hawke she talks about looking up to her (ie a bit of an idol crush) while she with a male talks about dalish-human couplings. It was not a huge difference but it was there.

Fenris was almost completely gender blind in his attitude.

I think the variables in the LI's there was nice. Because some people are genderblind and some aren't.

Right, that's why I think it would be a great idea to expand on that concept. a female inquisitor who romances character B should have a totally different experience than a male inquisitor who romances character B. 

ex: DAO. What if Alistair can romance both genders but only gives the rose to the female and not the male? What if the Goldana quest is only for the female but the male gets a totally different quest that could harden Alistair as a person. He still has a sister named Goldana in both playthroughs but he may feel compelled to ask for the advice of a female lover over a male one about her. A friendship Alistair can also yield a totally different quest that can harden him.

 Players may still take issue with it but it will lock out content and give each player a different experience with the LI that they just can't get with a different gender/sexuality combo. The characters will be fleshed out in totally different ways while still maintaining the core of who that person is.

[daveliam]

Akka le Vil wrote...

daveliam wrote...

That is absolutely not what is happening at all.  Gaider has specifically stated that the DA 2 LIs are BISEXUAL, not playersexual.

Actually, he said exactly the opposite...

I'm working on finding the quote.  But it might take me some time.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Hazegurl wrote...

esper wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

If you pick a female or male as your gender in the character creator it is a choice.

edit:Mind you I prefer that all LIs be available. Just give us different romance content based on gender/sexuality combos. They did a bit of this with the Anders relationship. He doesn't mention Karl as his lover to a female Hawke. I say expand on that. Give us totally different but equal content and experiences with the LIs and even nonromancable companions depending on the gender and sexuality and lock out other romance content. If a player wishes to experience the gay or straight specific content with an LI then they should choose the gender needed to have it but don't lock out the romance to the character completely. I think that approach could make everyone happy.

I actually like how they did it. Anders have a completely different romance male/female. There might be some unfortunate implications in it, but I can put them to the character and not the writer.

Some people thinks that Isabella have a different romance as female than as male. I don't know that as I never played it.

Merrill have slightly different concerns. With a female Hawke she talks about looking up to her (ie a bit of an idol crush) while she with a male talks about dalish-human couplings. It was not a huge difference but it was there.

Fenris was almost completely gender blind in his attitude.

I think the variables in the LI's there was nice. Because some people are genderblind and some aren't.

Right, that's why I think it would be a great idea to expand on that concept. a female inquisitor who romances character B should have a totally different experience than a male inquisitor who romances character B. 

ex: DAO. What if Alistair can romance both genders but only gives the rose to the female and not the male? What if the Goldana quest is only for the female but the male gets a totally different quest that could harden Alistair as a person. He still has a sister named Goldana in both playthroughs but he may feel compelled to ask for the advice of a female lover over a male one about her. A friendship Alistair can also yield a totally different quest that can harden him.

 Players may still take issue with it but it will lock out content and give each player a different experience with the LI that they just can't get with a different gender/sexuality combo. The characters will be fleshed out in totally different ways while still maintaining the core of who that person is.

That sounds like a good idea, actually. I support this train of thought. That way we have the freedom of options for those who support the playersexual concept, yet the characters have locked preferences in that playthrough for those who don't like the concept.

[spirosz]

I like that as well.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Plaintiff wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
Great, put in the most stupid points you want because it's fictional, great to see you remain as obtuse as ever. Look up the word verisimilitude.

Maybe you should look up verisimilitude, because it has no relevance whatsoever to the concept of "believability".

"Verisimilitude" in fiction refers to the work's internal logic, not to how well it aligns with the "real world". A work does not have to be similar to the "real world" in any way to acheive verisimilitude.

But then again considering your persecution complex is in full swing at the moment I'm really not suprised.

"I can't actually refute anything you say, so have an unfounded accusation of mental problems."

Such biased bigotry against those who are different, so shame.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

ignoreality wrote...


Don't diss Zev, he has feelings too!

And the first two sentences of your reply are exactly why I like the approach where the LI's have Schroedinger's sexuality. The perfect solution is unobtainable, therefore a compromise must be made. 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Is it DA2's approach?

All I know is when I read that I thought of:
https://encrypted-tb...aASDYigSADWwrGU