207 réponses à ce sujet

[Rusty Sandusky]

Damn it, Massively! What is it about you that causes people to make quote pyramids?

[Iakus]

[quote]Mcfly616 wrote...

[/quote] your reasons for not getting invested with the next game aren't exactly relatable to "it would be very hard for them to do worse". [/quote]

It's not a question of whether I would get invested.  It's whether or not I should. 

As in, why should I trust Bioware again, after what they did to Shepard and Mass Effect in general in ME3?  Why should I make a character, when that same character can be taken away?  Be it in a literal or figurative sense.  Why should this character take up a cause, when that cause can be rendered irrelevant or futile in the last few moments?

In other wrdrs, why should I bother? 

[quote]
Each game in the trilogy is one of the best games of the last decade (each garnering numerous awards). Sorry, but something that 'can't be any worse' doesn't receive that type of praise throughout the videogame industry.
[/quote]

Bioware cashed in on fan trust and thier good name.  What do they have left?

[quote]
If anything, it's going to be difficult to meet the level of success of the previous games[/quote]



Are you familiar with the phrase "Once bitten, twice shy"?

If nothing else, MENext marketing will be very interesting.  I want to see how they're going to try to coax back fans they chomped down on.

[Iakus]

StreetMagic wrote...

ThisOnesUsername wrote...
Yeah, about that. Aliens: Colonial Marines managed to sell around 1.3 million copies despite being an awful game (I have played it)

You can always bet on someone buying Aliens related stuff, in the hopes it'll finally not be complete ass. All because of the first two movies.

There were only two movies

Don't try to tell me different 

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

ThisOnesUsername wrote...
Yeah, about that. Aliens: Colonial Marines managed to sell around 1.3 million copies despite being an awful game (I have played it)

You can always bet on someone buying Aliens related stuff, in the hopes it'll finally not be complete ass. All because of the first two movies.

There were only two movies

Don't try to tell me different 

Hey, I'm definiely not unwilling to acknowledge the existence of Fincher's assembly cut of Alien 3. It's surprisingly decent. 

[Mcfly616]

iakus wrote...

Why should I make a character, when that same character can be taken away?  Be it in a literal or figurative sense.  Why should this character take up a cause, when that cause can be rendered irrelevant or futile in the last few moments?

In other wrdrs, why should I bother? 

Maybe you shouldn't. Maybe you shouldn't have children either. Maybe you shouldn't bother raising and training a young puppy into a loyal dog. Maybe you shouldn't bother trying anything, with the possibility of failure and the knowledge that all of it can be taken from you at any time. No one has control over such things.

Bioware cashed in on fan trust and thier good name.  What do they have left?

what does "cashing in" have to do with being critically acclaimed and widely hailed? I think someone in this thread has already established that the two don't necessarily go hand in hand. (Aliens: Colonial Marines. Cashed in on its name. Worst reviewed game of the year. Zero awards)

Modifié par Mcfly616, 17 décembre 2013 - 04:31 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

ThisOnesUsername wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

You saying something is good doesn't make it good though either.

Who determines that, then? Critics? Awards?

I'm pointing out the subjective nature of statements made here.

No one can really objectively determine that beyond mass appeal or mass opinion. And even then it can be subjective.

Precisely, especially the bolded. IMDB and Metacritic are depressing representations of this. 

The only concrete, semi-"objective" figure we can go by is sales, which is amusing in itself.

Yeah, about that. Aliens: Colonial Marines managed to sell around 1.3 million copies despite being an awful game (I have played it)

Even this can be hard to truly discern, especially with some of the new phases of DRM that more or less force you to purchase the game to play it. 

You either buy the (original copy) game (thus satisfying the bottom line for the devs and publishers), or you don't and thus have no standing to make a judgement or critique.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Mcfly616 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Why should I make a character, when that same character can be taken away?  Be it in a literal or figurative sense.  Why should this character take up a cause, when that cause can be rendered irrelevant or futile in the last few moments?

In other wrdrs, why should I bother? 

Maybe you shouldn't. Maybe you shouldn't have children either. Maybe you shouldn't bother raising and training a young puppy into a loyal dog. Maybe you shouldn't bother trying anything, with the possibility of failure and the knowledge that all of it can be taken from you at any time. No one has control over such things.

This is an improper comparison and a strawman. 

There is a distinct difference between an abstraction such as a cause or movement or idea, and something physical and concrete. 

More of an appeal to spite than anything else.

[durasteel]

iakus wrote...
There were only two movies

Don't try to tell me different 

If you watch Alien 4 intending to take it seriously, you'll hate it. If you watch it as a spin-off action-comedy, especially if you have a beer or two first, you'll think it is hilarious. I thought it was just horrible when I saw it in the theater, but when I bought the whole collection, as a pack, on blu-ray, I watched it again for the first time. I laughed a lot, and enjoyed the over-the-top silliness because I aproached it as, basically, a B-movie.

It helped that I had a crush on Winona Ryder back when we were both a lot younger.

[durasteel]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
...
Even this can be hard to truly discern, especially with some of the new phases of DRM that more or less force you to purchase the game to play it. 
...

It is interesting to me how YouTube has basically taken the place of the old-school playable demo. Now intead of loading a 30 minute segment of the game from a PC Gamer disc, we just watch gameplay footage online. I would have thought that the era of broadband would have expanded the use of demos, but clearly it didn't.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

 Why should this character take up a cause, when that cause can be rendered irrelevant or futile in the last few moments?

You had a character whose cause was something besides saving the galaxy? 

[JamesFaith]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

 Why should this character take up a cause, when that cause can be rendered irrelevant or futile in the last few moments?

You had a character whose cause was something besides saving the galaxy? 

You donť know?

His character was only planned for long life with LI after some saving of galaxy. 

[Stalker]

I never understood the affection to the Shepard character. He was only what I made him out to be. That's like missing the character of an Elder Scrolls or Fallout game. I have no problems playing with someone completely different in the next title...

The only thing I can admit is that "it won't be the same", because the main Mass Effect story is over. Everything that happens before or after will always be just a spin-off in the same universe.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

 Why should this character take up a cause, when that cause can be rendered irrelevant or futile in the last few moments?

You had a character whose cause was something besides saving the galaxy? 

Mine was.

Saving the galaxy wasn't his primary goal. If not for the morality chain of an LI, the Reapers could have it and he wouldn't bat an eyelash.

[Dean_the_Young]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

 Why should this character take up a cause, when that cause can be rendered irrelevant or futile in the last few moments?

You had a character whose cause was something besides saving the galaxy? 

He had a character who would only consider saving the galaxy relevant if he/she walked away with an idealized happy ending?

I'm impressed. I can do a decent evil/sociopathic character playthrough, but I've never managed to roleplay that level of shallow.

[Stalker]

StreetMagic wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

I never understood the affection to the Shepard character. He was only what I made him out to be. That's like missing the character of an Elder Scrolls or Fallout game. I have no problems playing with someone completely different in the next title...

The only thing I can admit is that "it won't be the same", because the main Mass Effect story is over. Everything that happens before or after will always be just a spin-off in the same universe.

I disagree there. As much as I like TES games, they're not like Bioware games. They're not as character driven. They're environment driven. And the protagonist even more a blank slate. Down to often being prisoners or travelers waking up from amnesia (Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim... all the same).

It's the same in the aspects that matter.

Shepard is not his own character. He/She is a projection of every player: male/female, black/white/asian, straight/gay/bi, tolerant/racist, paragon/renegade, friendly/hostile. Even if you roleplay him as some character you came to like, what's holding you from doing the exact same thing in the next game? What's the difference?

I don't see a reason for any serious affection there. 

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 17 décembre 2013 - 06:26 .

[Sir DeLoria]

JamesFaith wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...
 Why should this character take up a cause, when that cause can be rendered irrelevant or futile in the last few moments?

You had a character whose cause was something besides saving the galaxy? 

You donť know?

His character was only planned for long life with LI after some saving of galaxy. 

So was mine:lol:

[Stalker]

StreetMagic wrote...
I don't see much in Shepard him/herself either. I said in my first post here (probably a few pages back) that "Shepard" is really about the other characters. Your experience of Shepard is formed by who you ran in your squad the most, which character's traits meshed well with your own, which character you wanted to talk to first in between missions.. this stuff gives more life to Shepard. Not Shepard by him/herself.

TES doesn't have that much (they come close sometimes). The environment gives more life to your character there. It's all about those moments investigating a room or uncovering some murder scene and trying to find the context on why some random corpses are lying around or whatever. The TES experience doesn't revolve much around dialogue and character like Bioware titles do.

Haven't you just confirmed my statement then? The environment and characters (no reason for distinction here) give protagonists of ME and TES life. The protagonists themselves are exchangeable. The next game with new characters will (hopefully) give life to the new protagonist just as well. Sure it won't be the same, but that's the point of new stories, isn't it?

[wright1978]

Shep had a combination of 2 things going for him/her. He/she had a big element of player characterisation(slashed back by autodialogue/dreams etc in ME3 unfortunately). Secondly he/she spanned 3 games rather than 1. I doubt the next protaganist will have the same multi-game timespan to get attached to & i have my doubts after ME3 whether they'll carry on down the road of less player characterisation of the protaganist. If i do end up liking enough about what i hear about ME4 to buy it I doubt the next protaganist will evoke the same level of attachment from me anyway as once bitten twice shy after ME3.

Modifié par wright1978, 17 décembre 2013 - 08:02 .

[Thesandman87]

AlanC9 wrote...

Different is fine. I like TNG better than TOS, and DS9 better than either.

hearasey, you can like TOS or TNG the best, DS9 is never a valid option, turn in your communicator and phaser, and please exit to the left

on a more serious note, honestly it won't be the same and seeing how quality seems to be suffering, ME3, DA2, and ToR anyone, I am more adopting a wait and see approach, I jumped into ME1 because I loved KoTOR so much, and got DA because of ME1, but since EA now fully controls Bioware I'm not so sure of quality anymore.

[clarkusdarkus]

It's not just Shepard, But rather The Shepard!!

In all honesty i prefer to create the hero in games rather than use a gonk looking one which is why i cant get into The Witcher, So aslong as you can create the new guy/girl/alien then im
Good with it as i'll treat it for what it is, A corridor shooting action game with RPG elements, If it was 2007 Bioware then my answer would be different.