46 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Shepard: "You mean asari can reproduce with their own race?"

Man I really hate this question, but I'm just thankful that I can avoid it altogether so Shepard doesn't totally derp biology there.

[Derpy]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Shepard: "You mean asari can reproduce with their own race?"

Liara: "It wasn't always like that, Shepard. Back in ancient times, the Goddess Athame would visit worthy Asari Matrons and give them wondrous gifts of precious Asari babies. Then when we discovered interstellar travel and met other species we were introduced to the miracle of reproduction."

"...I should go."

"...I'm done here."
I think I'm going to go gouge my eyes out now. Seriously, TMI bro, TMI. 

[DarthLaxian]

General TSAR wrote...

You just opened Pandora's box.
..............
Prothean intervention I guess. 

SPOILER (you have been warned - but this one is IMHO needed for the topic at hand, so I have marked it (just in case someone here has not yet finished ME3))




they had a PROTHEAN-ARCHIVE (Beacon!) for christ's sake (!) - it was probably in there (along with a lot of technology that kept the Asari in power for centuries/millenia (who knows if the didn't kill of younger species that they thought incapable of being integrated into a galactic society, before meeting the Turians and the Salarians?))

greetings LAX

[vervurax]

You really should read this: http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Asari
They reproduce through melding, which would require both partners to be willing. I don't imagine how Thessian animals would "want to" meld with an Asari. Before discovering other species they were reproducing with their own people, so trying to join minds with a Salarian doesn't really sound so crazy. Remember that the melding doesn't imply reproduction, it's a matter of choice.

[Han Shot First]

KaiserShep wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Shepard: "You mean asari can reproduce with their own race?"

Man I really hate this question, but I'm just thankful that I can avoid it altogether so Shepard doesn't totally derp biology there.

That was by far the dumbest line uttered by any character in the entire series.

Thankfully it is entirely skippable.

[SwobyJ]

Honestly, while I think Shepard IS pretty derp with that quote, I don't skip it.

1. Looking at his history, it appears he (and most humans at the beginning point of ME1, actually) has a very limited knowledge of aliens.

2. He sees weird aliens as weird aliens. WE may be nerds that accept aliens of all sorts, but a military man, likely not so much, even in 'da futur' and knowledge at his fingertips.

3. He does know that asari are all 'female', so he didn't know how they reproduced. The presumption is that they might either just create offspring themselves individually, or 'mate' with other beings. Because, again, all 'female'.

Is it ignorant? Yes, but I see ME1 Shepard as intentionally a somewhat ignorant (but effective) soldier, same as I see ME2 Shepard as a somewhat naive (but inspiring) leader, and ME3 Shepard as a somewhat dazed (but awe-inducing) legend.

He loses ignorance, gains exposure to moral complexities (to the point where some of us rationalize letting the Reapers continue).
He loses the total automatic soldier role, gains exposure to being a leader himself, even apparently a possible legend to the entire galaxy. To do the latter two outcomes, he has to at least partially shed the 'do the job, don't ask questions' soldier role of before, and the possible ignorance that comes with it.

Different Shepards for different times. So you don't like ME1 Shepard come ME3 or maybe even back in ME2. So what. For all you know, the next protagonist will blow all ME1-3 Shepards away and expose them as total neanderthals (even at the best of his times). There's kind of a trend going on, at least I think so.

So ME1 Shepard was confused and even outright rude about the Asari. So what. Most humans would have been. They had a 'reputation'.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 24 janvier 2014 - 07:23 .

[shodiswe]

Obviously, Asari could reproduce witheachother... Unless there was a second sentient species that evolved on Thessia that eventualy went extint because they stopped mating with their own people and eventualy the last member of that species died from old age or whatever...

[snackrat]

Pff. I actually figured they were already doing it with their own wildlife. I mean, is that really such a leap? Zoophilia is totally a thing that exists, why should the sexually-expressed asari be different in that regard? Maybe that poor genetic template ruined some of the scrambling in their species for enough members that when two asari reproduce, they might randomise with the same space-sheep sequence and BOOM! Ardat-Yakshi!

[JusticarDoom]

This thread scares me

[Navasha]

Look at our own species..   Is there anything left that humans haven't tried?

They don't make warning labels like this for no reason.

[Derpy]

JusticarDoom wrote...

This thread scares me

This^

[Nitrocuban]

The Protheans showed them how to...
I guess duty on Thessia was pretty popular amongst Prothean empire soldiers during that time
:3

[SerriceIceDandy]

Does their attractiveness work on gay men? Steve seemed to show no interest in the citadel DLC, but James on the other hand...

[gisle]

Melding is a conscious process that needs the other party to focus and consent -- Ardat-Yakshi possibly only exempt from the latter --, which pretty much rules out non-sapient species. Whoever discovered they could meld with salarians could have done so in an effort to understand the species and/or break the language barrier, or just curiosity as melding is a part of their own culture for way more than reproduction -- sharing ideas and memories, a way to say goodbye, etc... Also, seeking genetic diversity was a problem before interstellar travel, which had asari settle down far from where they were born in an effort to help it. Maybe some was holding out hope that the salarians could help this.

Sex and reproduction both use melding (the Retribution novel specifies what role it servers in the former), but melding is a versatile tool.

That's my take on it given what information has been in the games, novels and codex entries.

[MisterJB]

I suspect they can do it with thessian animals.
It's not like you'd need sapience in order to use someone or something else's genetic code to randomize your own and create another unholy spawn of Cthulhu AKA asari.

[gisle]

They'd need focus to meld, and some interaction is needed to help the partner focus as far as canon material have shown for first-time cases. They could probably communicate that in non-verbal ways, but it calls for even more intelligence to understand it without spoken communication. Put it that way, a dog can't speak, but that doesn't mean it could understand and use sign language to compensate.

Modifié par Gisle-Aune, 25 janvier 2014 - 07:25 .

[SwobyJ]

DrunkShepardFTW wrote...

Does their attractiveness work on gay men? Steve seemed to show no interest in the citadel DLC, but James on the other hand...

AFAIK, it can hypothetically work on anyone. However, for say homosexual human males, they'd have to appeal in far more ways than simply physical appearance and demeanor.

Technically to Bioware (even though there may be more true silly reasons behind this), FemShep isn't 'lesbian' if she romances Liara. Asari, or at least some asari, are really just that attractive to certain people. This is especially probably the case because asari are more about melding of minds and matter, than any explicit sexual activity (even if the other party often interprets it as that).

I see that as a copout, but I can also see some more interesting storylines some out of it with the asari in the future, so whatever

Modifié par SwobyJ, 25 janvier 2014 - 07:51 .

[Mangalores]

Gisle-Aune wrote...

They'd need focus to meld, and some interaction is needed to help the partner focus as far as canon material have shown for first-time cases. They could probably communicate that in non-verbal ways, but it calls for even more intelligence to understand it without spoken communication. Put it that way, a dog can't speak, but that doesn't mean it could understand and use sign language to compensate.

In a way the question is if the actually need the meld to reproduce or get pregnant. Overall their reproduction happens completely asexual in a way. They meld, it somehow scrambles their reproductive system so their offspring gets a more randomized genetic makeup than being solely a copy of the mother and that's it.

It appears more that they do use the life experiences/emotions/personalities they touch via melding to somehow modify their offspring. In a way the next step would be that that could happen cumulatively and they just decide to have a child with that gathered life experiences at some point in time and then become pregnant.

In a way their reproductive process sounds very clinical and I'm not sure if fanboys would really get their money's worth out of the experience. Sure, we got the naked blue butt scenes but when Asari melded with Shepard for other purposes they just mindfried him and he/she didn't show much capacity to do anything beyond passing out or throwing up. Might be the memory transfer though.

Modifié par Mangalores, 25 janvier 2014 - 08:56 .

[gisle]

(Sorry, can't quote because only the quick reply feature works for me)

I'm pretty sure they do use genetic memories, specifically, and I have not seen or heard any canon examples of asari having children out of the blue (no pun intended) without a father. Ardat-Yakshi are considered sterile, after all, and their disease affects melding.

As for the second part, you're going off into a tangent without any canon information to base it on. If there is, I'd really like to see it. As far as canon examples are concerned, it's the pessimistic version that is using it for randomization, and there's Liara's romanticized version as told in ME1. I think parental influence play a larger role than their genes or species -- Aethyta's father was around during her upbringing, after all.

The "green alien babe" trope may have been the initial idea, but I doubt it's what Bioware intended for the asari in the end; ME2 and ME3 did a good job graying out the black and whites ME1 presented. Many asari raise their young alone when the father's short-lived, so their relation with the kid's father may be asking a good non-asari friend a favor more so than marriage -- if it's anything like it sounds like, tracking the father down for child support may be impossible, even. I find the ME aliens interesting for the facts and how Bioware portray them, not for what these "fanboys" you refer to does.

[Mangalores]

Gisle-Aune wrote...

(Sorry, can't quote because only the quick reply feature works for me)

I'm pretty sure they do use genetic memories, specifically, and I have not seen or heard any canon examples of asari having children out of the blue (no pun intended) without a father. Ardat-Yakshi are considered sterile, after all, and their disease affects melding.

As for the second part, you're going off into a tangent without any canon information to base it on. If there is, I'd really like to see it. As far as canon examples are concerned, it's the pessimistic version that is using it for randomization, and there's Liara's romanticized version as told in ME1. I think parental influence play a larger role than their genes or species -- Aethyta's father was around during her upbringing, after all.

Well, sure. The baseline however is that mindmelding _is also_ how they reproduce. That is canon. What the difference is between a mind meld that "just" exchanges thoughts or memories and one that is done for reproduction we do not know but they use the mind meld to get something non genetic from their partner and then that process somehow affects the genes of the to be child. Genetic memories is major pseudoscience nonsense so I hope BW doesn't refer to that anywhere.

The complete DNA set is Asari and during melding they use the meld to alter one set of the genes, that's the Codex info on the matter.

My speculative part just derives out of the fact the melding is a conscious act by an Asari. They do it to also to get the thoughts and memories from indivdiuals as evidences by Liara and Shiala and obviously do not attach anything intimate to it ( Shiala has essentially a gun to her head and just says "Oh, well, just let me show you").

Doesn't have to be true but their reproductive system is obviously triggered by something the Asari also use consciously so I do not see it as an as far jump. The question to me would be more why it should be limited to a singular exchange instead of them using the entirety of all mind meld exchanges to affect their child's development => the compositie of their life experiences via exchanges of people they loved? It's not like there is an obvious biological factor limiting this.

So them being able to get pregnant without a mind meld is off a tangent but that their reproductive system is completely self sufficient and governed by conscious actions is essentially how it has to work based on the Codex/canon info.

Of course, Aethyta "Krogan" antics could be mainly behavioural by growing up with one as her father, but the underlying biological aspect like differing appearance from their mothers is explained as genetic mutations via mind melding

The "green alien babe" trope may have been the initial idea, but I doubt it's what Bioware intended for the asari in the end; ME2 and ME3 did a good job graying out the black and whites ME1 presented. Many asari raise their young alone when the father's short-lived, so their relation with the kid's father may be asking a good non-asari friend a favor more so than marriage -- if it's anything like it sounds like, tracking the father down for child support may be impossible, even. I find the ME aliens interesting for the facts and how Bioware portray them, not for what these "fanboys" you refer to does.

What you are suggesting is even more leaning towards my speculation than I thought. 

Modifié par Mangalores, 26 janvier 2014 - 03:36 .

[Red Panda]

Gisle-Aune wrote...

Melding is a conscious process that needs the other party to focus and consent

Melding is a versatile tool.

Petrovsky in the Omega DLC wasn't too willing. But I guess that wasn't what normal Asari do.

The possibilities of violating someone's mind as they are strangled are truely terrifying.

[gisle]

^Aria is a manipulative woman, however, and allegedly 1,000 years old. I'm sure some asari could force it or "tune in" without mutual focus, but those probably trained to do so. Some part of Retribution also negates the possibility of her being an A-Y, so she's something of her own. I'm not trying to paint a pretty picture of them -- definitely not, there's good and bad of all sizes and shapes in the ME universe --, just seeking a factual discussion of it without cynicism or assumptions about other fans.

---

Genetic memory may be pseudo-science nonsense, but it's ingrained enough in the ME setting's "reaility" so that going away from it may lead to inconsistency. Maybe this 'genetic memory' simply refer to specific thoughts that could just be as significant as a 'seed' would be for a Minecraft world.

It does make sense how you put it, but for all we know, the process can only be triggered by a specific set of thoughts during a meld, while still not making every meld risky. The only thing I see is in the way of it being entirely self-triggered -- meld or no meld -- is how the Ardat-Yakshi are considered sterile; all we know is that it doesn't harm the asari beyond making the meld cause the mother of all strokes.