122 réponses à ce sujet

[Cryos_Feron]

does tech vulnerability also increase the ammo damage of every shot with your gun? for example incendiary ammo. that would be good news for her.

yesterday I played her and found sticky grenade a bit underwhelming - very small radius and the damage was good but not noticeably higher than a javelin shot with high penetration. so why would I use them - the animation takes about the same time. also, it was not easy to stick them and get the tech explosion. played without Geth Scanner for extra grenades and the phantoms etc. often see you and are moving too fast

[Indoctornated]

^ No. Just tech burst & fire explosions from ammo.

[Kushiel42]

does tech vulnerability also increase the ammo damage of every shot with your gun? for example incendiary ammo. that would be good news for her.

yesterday I played her and found sticky grenade a bit underwhelming - very small radius and the damage was good but not noticeably higher than a javelin shot with high penetration. so why would I use them - the animation takes about the same time. also, it was not easy to stick them and get the tech explosion. played without Geth Scanner for extra grenades and the phantoms etc. often see you and are moving too fast

 

1) Nope.

 

2) Were you using a sniper rifle? If so, were you scoping while the stickies went off? There's a bug where they suffer the same damage penalty as hipfiring the sniper rifle you're using if you're not scoped when they detonate, and most of those hipfire penalties are stupidly big.

[SpaceV3gan]

The Executioner works wonders on her.

A BSNer once recommended it to me, can't remember his name though. I tried, loved it, but I never had the chance to say thanks.

[PatrickBateman]

The Executioner works wonders on her.

A BSNer once recommended it to me, can't remember his name though. I tried, loved it, but I never had the chance to say thanks.

Agree, it's a great gun on her. I run her 5/6/6/6/3 with the Executioner (heavy barrel and power amp) with either incindiary or disruptor ammo.

[Cryos_Feron]

1) Nope.

2) Were you using a sniper rifle? If so, were you scoping while the stickies went off? There's a bug where they suffer the same damage penalty as hipfiring the sniper rifle you're using if you're not scoped when they detonate, and most of those hipfire penalties are stupidly big.

yes, I know about the scope thing.

but we are only talking about the ammo damage here. so the total damage can not get huge.

and getting the fire- or tech explosion with nimble enemies like phantoms is hard (for me).

I really wanted to like this kit, but I am a little disappointed.
if at least sabotage was able to remove the complete shields (cerberus) , then you could use the javelin without phasic Ammo.

[Cryos_Feron]

I thought about the stickies again.

In case you are using a potent sniper rifle or maybe even the crusader/executioner,  you already do great puctual damage.

So what you are missing is AOE damage, in order to hit several enemies.

 

Those grenades would be very useful if their explosion had a wider radius

(to make up for this, the DETECTION could still be like 2m - but the explosion must be wider).

[PatrickBateman]

There is a radius evolution for the sticky nades you know.....

[Cryos_Feron]

yes - but percentage-wise on the small base-value.

 

Anyways, I will take it now - that way I am still making 2200 damage and have a good chance of hitting more than 1 enemy

[Deerber]

does tech vulnerability also increase the ammo damage of every shot with your gun? for example incendiary ammo. that would be good news for her.

yesterday I played her and found sticky grenade a bit underwhelming - very small radius and the damage was good but not noticeably higher than a javelin shot with high penetration. so why would I use them - the animation takes about the same time. also, it was not easy to stick them and get the tech explosion. played without Geth Scanner for extra grenades and the phantoms etc. often see you and are moving too fast

 

No, it does not.

 

You seem to think that firing your gun or using the grenade are either/or things, but they are not. Use the grenades to hide your very long reload, and get the best of both worlds. Also, the one thing that grenades have over a Javelin shot (other than no need to recharge) is the AoE. I know it's small, but if you see several enemies together close enough for one to blast them all, then the grenades will actually be much more effective than a Javelin shot. Reliably finding groups of enemies clustered together is something that you'll learn with experience. The faster you're able to rush the spawns, the better stickies will become.

 

Agree, it's a great gun on her. I run her 5/6/6/6/3 with the Executioner (heavy barrel and power amp) with either incindiary or disruptor ammo.

 

Why no 4/4 split? Do you melee on her?

 

yes, I know about the scope thing.

but we are only talking about the ammo damage here. so the total damage can not get huge.

and getting the fire- or tech explosion with nimble enemies like phantoms is hard (for me).

I really wanted to like this kit, but I am a little disappointed.
if at least sabotage was able to remove the complete shields (cerberus) , then you could use the javelin without phasic Ammo.

 

Actually, the damage of something like a Javelin + phasic ammo can get *huge*. It can strip a Phantom's barriers in and on itself, so go figure...

 

Regarding Phantoms, in my experience it is better not to try and stick the nade on them, it's too hard, and not worth it. Just stick it some meters in front of them, and you'll see them blowing up just fine That goes with almost all mooks, really.

 

Would you like to share your build? Cause she's a very powerful kit when used right, maybe we can show you. First thing, for example, would be not to use the Javelin on her...

 

yes - but percentage-wise on the small base-value.

 

Anyways, I will take it now - that way I am still making 2200 damage and have a good chance of hitting more than 1 enemy

 

You're gonna be surprised by how much the radius evolution can change your ability to actually hit things with them

Oh, and you're doing *way* more than 2.2k of damage with each one, if you do things the right way.

[PatrickBateman]

I put the 5th rank into TC re-charge speed, Executioner with heavy barrel adds a bit of weight.

[Quarian Master Race]

 

2) Were you using a sniper rifle? If so, were you scoping while the stickies went off? There's a bug where they suffer the same damage penalty as hipfiring the sniper rifle you're using if you're not scoped when they detonate, and most of those hipfire penalties are stupidly big.

The grenades themselves don't suffer any damage penalty, just the ammo damage they apply. It doesn't actually matter all that much, because a Javelin, Mantis, Widow or BW for example is still going to apply a lot more ammo damage hipfired than any non sniper weapon is capable of (even Crusader or Executioner), due to their base damage being so high in the first place and ammo damage being a percentage of that. If you learn to quickscope the grenades with one of those weapons, they do immensely more ammo damage than with any other weapon, and their priming the target for their own explosion is nearly guaranteed.

 

 

 

Regarding Phantoms, in my experience it is better not to try and stick the nade on them, it's too hard, and not worth it. Just stick it some meters in front of them, and you'll see them blowing up just fine That goes with almost all mooks, really.

 

Would you like to share your build? Cause she's a very powerful kit when used right, maybe we can show you. First thing, for example, would be not to use the Javelin on her...

I agreed with your post until these two points. If using a tech ammo, you should absolutely stick mooks if they are clustered or are sub bosses like phantoms or goons, because then you get the tech explosion, which can cover a hell of a lot more radius than even a fully radius specced sticky grenade can. If you can't hit the little guys in the spawn then just stick them to a brute or scion. You can devestate geth especially with disruptor stickies and sabotage because they are so absurdly slow and like to cluster together. Alternatively, a radius sticky in my experience generally won't kill a phantom or goon in one go on gold and plat without the tech explosion with most builds (though it does leave them near dead and staggers for an easy finish). 

And why would you not use the Javelin on her? It does retarded damage, gives you free wallhax (important for a character where grenade gear is best option), applies ammo well (important for ensuring the grenades self prime and detonate), benefits massively from her cloak, and like all singleshot weapons on her it works seamlessly with cloak and using grenades for hiding reloads. Only downside is the required L2P for using it in optimal sticky grenade range, but that's not really a downside is it?

[GordianKnot42]

First off... necrolicious.

Secondly: Reegar shotty infiltrator all the way.

[Staggerhappy Boshtet]

Would you like to share your build? Cause she's a very powerful kit when used right, maybe we can show you. First thing, for example, would be not to use the Javelin on her...

 

http://kalence.drupa...!4206151!!909C3

 

That´s my build that I use. Suggestions are welcome.

[Quarian Master Race]

http://kalence.drupa...!4206151!!909C3

 

That´s my build that I use. Suggestions are welcome.

Okay, given your manifest this is how I would build her with the same weapon loadout.


http://kalence.drupa...1!13O55333!E0EA

first off, 3 points in fitness vs 10% weapons damage. You won't really miss the former as it only gives you 150 shields ( for perspective, that's about 1 marauder or assault trooper bullet), but with the BW at such a low level you are going to want all the damage you can get to make sure you get over OHK thresholds. If you really want shields, even a paltry cyclonic 1 or 2 can give you the same or better results. For the same reason, I would also go 4a with weapon damage passives over the 10% extra power damage. Both specs have their merits, but most of your damage is going to be coming from the rifle most of the time if you are sniping with her. Weight capacity is irrelevant on an infiltrator because all powers will be used from cloak.

I also changed your duration cloak to a damage one. This is probably going to be the most significant difference in our builds. Basically, If you are already going with a heavy 2 gun loadout, Duration is never going to be of much use outside of devices, since you will want to break cloak by firing ASAP to avoid long cooldowns. Comparatively an extra 40% damage is going to help you get over OHK thresholds, benefit your grenades, and is generally a lot more useful in increasing your damage, while 5 seconds is still plenty of time to relocate if you get into trouble.

Slightly modified sabotage, going with 4b over 4a. I don't find the extra duration very useful because hacked enemies are idiots most of the time and only two enemy factions have them anyway, while I comparatively like backfire's ability to strip organic shields and finish off enemies that the rifle didn't quite get in one shot. This isn't a really big deal though.

Grenades I didn't change. I too prefer the damage specs for stickies due to the poor returns for the radius specs, but both have their merits. The Radius spec is better vs mook spawns, the damage is better for directly sticking them to armor. Remember, they benefit from cloak too. Ideally, with a BW you should cloak>sabotage>shoot3X then hide/ cancel the reload with a grenade and cloak should be ready again. Of course, if you are rushing spawns, you should lead with the grenades, to ensure that you hit as many targets before they disperse. Just try to make the grenades go off while you are in cloak, as if they don't you are missing out on a large chunk of damage.

Gear you didn't put, so I just went with what I prefer for a gold build. Grenade gear is easily your best option even though you only have it at level 2. Disruptor ammo, while not quite as efficient as Phasic, will enable you to OHK most gold humanoids (though stronger ones like Phantoms, pyros, goons hunters etc will need headshots). More importantly, it gives you access to tech bursts via the grenades, which in conjunction with Sabotage 6b can be boosted in damage multiplicatively by 50%. Her tech combos do huge damage over a wide area, and you can do the same thing with Incendiary, though in the BW's case I would use disruptor to help deal with the shieldgate mechanic. Phasics are also a good option(likely best, actually), since they will net you OHK body shots on most gold mooks, and you will still be able to do tech bursts against organic targets using sabotage (wait for the backfire effect to prime, 1.5 seconds after cast).

Weapon amp is obvious, and I put on an adrenaline mod because I prefer it, though really you could use cyclonics, power amp (for the grenades) or shield power cells depending on your preferences. Finally, I changed your weapon mods a bit. I think a bit more piercing on the rifle for double hits and more than .25m of cover piercing is more useful than extra clips, given you should ideally be hitting ammo boxes for more grenades rather frequently anyway. For the sidearm, I swapped the piercing barrel for a damage one, since you shouldn't be using a Locust against armor when you have a Black Widow.

Now, go and vanquish the enemies of the Flotilla and Homeworld. Keelah se'lai.  


 

[Staggerhappy Boshtet]

Thanks for the headsup QMR! Too bad I can only like your post once

[Cryos_Feron]

No, it does not.

You seem to think that firing your gun or using the grenade are either/or things, but they are not. Use the grenades to hide your very long reload, and get the best of both worlds. 

 

.....

 

Actually, the damage of something like a Javelin + phasic ammo can get *huge*. It can strip a Phantom's barriers in and on itself, so go figure...

......

 

Would you like to share your build? Cause she's a very powerful kit when used right, maybe we can show you. First thing, for example, would be not to use the Javelin on her...

 

 

Oh, and you're doing *way* more than 2.2k of damage with each one, if you do things the right way.

 

I did not know that you can reload and throw nades at the same time (??) - will try this tonight.

 

 

Yes, I love Phasics III on my Javelin. But when I run out of them I don't want to stop using my Javelin. That's why I am always looking for alternatives.

 

 

Why should I not use the Javelin on her? The way you put it, one could think that the Javelin is "not right" and that this is a general fact.

 

Well, for me it IS "right" - because I feel very comfortable with the Javelin (which I don't with the Crusader or Executioner).

And the stats are everything but bad...  those 25% bonus on TC 6b are not bad, too.

 

Besides, it let's me one-shot-kill most things with Disruptor ammo + Sabotage (maybe it is also because the Javelin seems to have 10% shield gate penetration?).

 

Anyway, it also offers a high base-damage which is not bad for the stickies - even off-scope.

[LemurFromTheId]

I did not know that you can reload and throw nades at the same time (??) - will try this tonight.

 

It's called reload hiding. If you use a power with sufficiently long animation after emptying your gun but before the reload starts, the weapon will reload itself "in the background". For a more accurate and technical explanation look here.

 

Reload hiding with a grenade and then reload canceling normally is much more efficient than reload canceling with a grenade.

[The NightMan Cometh]

This is my build : http://kalence.drupa...!21N55343!E45AG

 

I already know what everyone is going to say. Put more into Sabotage for Exploding Hack..I know..It's funny and all but the Geth / Atlases I Sabotage  die so damn fast and I am spamming it so quick ..they really don't make past the initial glowing orange stage because Black Widow   &  Head Shots..  Put more into Sticky's...honestly, I don't really use them at all if ever....They are for the the Oh -she-ite moments like missing a Dragoon when he is charging me or if I side step a Brute..chuck 1 on his back...Why the Cyclonic?...Ehh...Why not I have 255 Level 1's..what else should I use? power amps wont help..only other viable choices are Adren Mod or Shield Cells...I use Adren Mods on Drell / the faster characters...Shield Cells I tend to use with all Geth characters... FQI is the character I use almost every time I play now along with both AsariDepts.

[Mgamerz]

Put on a hack all the things mod and spec into sabotage. Let all the enemies do the work for you. I mean you like seeing a banshee sync kill a dragoon right?

[Cryos_Feron]

This is my build : http://kalence.drupa...!21N55343!E45AG

 

 

I know where you are coming from,

 

but I usually max out every power I use

and spec out of others completely (=  "all or nothing")

 

psychologists should analyze this - I am sure that it means something ;-)

[Deerber]

I did not know that you can reload and throw nades at the same time (??) - will try this tonight.

 

 

Yes, I love Phasics III on my Javelin. But when I run out of them I don't want to stop using my Javelin. That's why I am always looking for alternatives.

 

 

Why should I not use the Javelin on her? The way you put it, one could think that the Javelin is "not right" and that this is a general fact.

 

Well, for me it IS "right" - because I feel very comfortable with the Javelin (which I don't with the Crusader or Executioner).

And the stats are everything but bad...  those 25% bonus on TC 6b are not bad, too.

 

Besides, it let's me one-shot-kill most things with Disruptor ammo + Sabotage (maybe it is also because the Javelin seems to have 10% shield gate penetration?).

 

Anyway, it also offers a high base-damage which is not bad for the stickies - even off-scope.

 

See what Aedolon said. It's a very very useful piece of information.

 

Actually, it might be a good idea to stop using a Javlin when you're out of Phasics III. It's sad, I know, but it is what it is. I guess disruptors IV might be an acceptable substitute... Maybe. Somewhat.

 

And sorry, you're the second one to perceive what I said about the Javelin as an objective thing, so it's probably my fault for how I worded it. It's a ****** awesome gun, and it fits her quite well. I just don't like having to scope to throw nades, and if I'm not gonna do that then I might as well use another gun. Just my feelings on the matter, if you feel differently then you can make an efficient use of her even with a javelin. It's just gonna be harder.

 

However, as awesome as it is, it has no shield gate penetration. No gun has that. What you're talking about is probably the ammos letting you bypass shieldgate. Or backfire completing the job, dunno.

[Quarian Master Race]

Actually, it might be a good idea to stop using a Javlin when you're out of Phasics III. It's sad, I know, but it is what it is. I guess disruptors IV might be an acceptable substitute... Maybe. Somewhat.

 

And sorry, you're the second one to perceive what I said about the Javelin as an objective thing, so it's probably my fault for how I worded it. It's a ****** awesome gun, and it fits her quite well. I just don't like having to scope to throw nades, and if I'm not gonna do that then I might as well use another gun. Just my feelings on the matter, if you feel differently then you can make an efficient use of her even with a javelin. It's just gonna be harder.

 

However, as awesome as it is, it has no shield gate penetration. No gun has that. What you're talking about is probably the ammos letting you bypass shieldgate. Or backfire completing the job, dunno.

Disruptor IV works just fine on the Javelin on gold at least and you hardly notice the difference except against boss shield/barriers (which the tech bursts can help with anyway). I can't think of a trash enemy OTOH that you can't kill in one shot both in and out of cloak, maybe possessed captains. Phantoms actually take more damage because of the phasic bug as well, I think enough to bodyshot them if you get a double hit (not that one should ever do that).

You don't "have" to scope to throw nades with the Javelin at all (I usually don't because they're better utilized as reload hides) unless you are OCD about not leaving any damage on the table. Even with the hipfire penalty, Javelin's single projectile ammo damage (and thus what is applied by the grenade) will still outdamage any non sniper weapon by quite a margin due to it doing around twice the base damage of the highest single shot ones (crusader and executioner). Goes for Widow, BW, Kishock (which doesn't even have a penalty) and Mantis as well. Actual ammo damage upon application is fairly insignificant, anyway, at least on gold and plat bosses. What you really want is high proc chance.

Projectile weapons ignore shieldgate, which makes them comparatively good on her with IA.. I like the Kishock in particular and it is very effective with the grenades and synergizes well with cloak, though it obviously isn't good for a min-max setup (none of the projectile guns really are).

 

[Deerber]

You don't "have" to scope to throw nades with the Javelin at all (I usually don't because they're better utilized as reload hides) unless you are OCD about not leaving any damage on the table.

 

I am I thought that much was known
 

And what's that phasic bug you're talking about?

[Quarian Master Race]

I am I thought that much was known
 

And what's that phasic bug you're talking about?

IIRC Phasics are bugged and don't do any extra damage to power blocking effects or apply the regen penalty to them. Phantom/ banshee/ praetorian bubbles would be examples.

http://forum.bioware...ubble-oddities/

Doesn't really matter much to an infiltrator equipped with a Javelin vs phantoms since a double hit headshot would kill them without any ammo in most cases on gold. Javelin vs banshee the barrier is typically long gone by the time they've stopped and gone into ranged phase to pull up the bubble. Easiest to notice vs Praetorians when idiot pugs fire powers at them because you won't instantly gib the barrier off in one or two shots anymore.