122 réponses à ce sujet

[LemurFromTheId]

However, as awesome as it is, it has no shield gate penetration. No gun has that. What you're talking about is probably the ammos letting you bypass shieldgate. Or backfire completing the job, dunno.

 

That was changed a long time ago, wasn't it? After breaking shields, 10% 25% of the remaining damage will bleed through. It's possible for Javelin to OHK shielded mooks without phasics/disruptors if they only have a small amount of shields remaining. A headshot if needed, of course.

 

EDIT: Thanks for the correction, D-man!

[Mgamerz]

Kishock ignores shield gate.

[LemurFromTheId]

Kishock ignores shield gate.

 

Reported!

[Cryos_Feron]

However, as awesome as it is, it has no shield gate penetration. No gun has that. What you're talking about is probably the ammos letting you bypass shieldgate. Or backfire completing the job, dunno.

 

I heard this in a youtube video some days ago (10% penetration).

 

But the guy might very well be wrong about that - probably he is.

[Deerber]

IIRC Phasics are bugged and don't do any extra damage to power blocking effects or apply the regen penalty to them. Phantom/ banshee/ praetorian bubbles would be examples.

http://forum.bioware...ubble-oddities/

Doesn't really matter much to an infiltrator equipped with a Javelin vs phantoms since a double hit headshot would kill them without any ammo in most cases on gold. Javelin vs banshee the barrier is typically long gone by the time they've stopped and gone into ranged phase to pull up the bubble. Easiest to notice vs Praetorians when idiot pugs fire powers at them because you won't instantly gib the barrier off in one or two shots anymore.

 

Well... I know about that, but since we were talking in general I didn't think you'd take something so specific that it's only true when Phantoms bubble. You shouldn't bubble them anyway with a QFI, or you're wasting nades. Just pop them heads, in which case phasics are superior.

 

Also, if you bothered to read the first sentence in the thread you linked, you'd know that bug only affects Phantoms' bubble. Or was it found that it affects others bubbles too, later in the thread?

[Deerber]

That was changed a long time ago, wasn't it? After breaking shields, 10% of the remaining damage will bleed through. It's possible for Javelin to OHK shielded mooks without phasics/disruptors if they only have a small amount of shields remaining. A headshot if needed, of course.

 

 

I heard this in a youtube video some days ago (10% penetration).

 

But the guy might very well be wrong about that - probably he is.

 

 

Err, sorry, I worded it poorly. Shield gate penetration is set at 25% on gold/platinum, and there are no guns that alter that value apart from projectile guns that ignore shieldgate altogether.

[Quarian Master Race]

Well... I know about that, but since we were talking in general I didn't think you'd take something so specific that it's only true when Phantoms bubble. You shouldn't bubble them anyway with a QFI, or you're wasting nades. Just pop them heads, in which case phasics are superior.

 

Also, if you bothered to read the first sentence in the thread you linked, you'd know that bug only affects Phantoms' bubble. Or was it found that it affects others bubbles too, later in the thread?

same thread on reddit, and is consistent with my own anecdotal experiences. 
http://www.reddit.co...ubble_oddities/

and yeah, it's not a huge disadvantage (or a real disadvantage at all in solos where you don't have "helpful" pugs), but it's there. A cloaked headshot with either Disruptor or Phasic on a Javelin X is going to result in melon chunks with her, at least on gold anyway. 

[Deerber]

same thread on reddit, and is consistent with my own anecdotal experiences. 
http://www.reddit.co...ubble_oddities/

and yeah, it's not a huge disadvantage (or a real disadvantage at all in solos where you don't have "helpful" pugs), but it's there. A cloaked headshot with either Disruptor or Phasic on a Javelin X is going to result in melon chunks with her, at least on gold anyway. 

 

That's pretty weird, as Corlist specifically edited the thread on here to say that it only works that way with phantoms. We should ask him, I guess...

 

Also, the latest statement depends on how much DR the ****** got. I say the moar the damage, the better the chances to blow her head off

[LemurFromTheId]

Err, sorry, I worded it poorly. Shield gate penetration is set at 25% on gold/platinum, and there are no guns that alter that value apart from projectile guns that ignore shieldgate altogether.

 

Ah yes, 25% of course... no idea where that 10% came from.

[Deerber]

Ah yes, 25% of course... no idea where that 10% came from.

 

I think 10% was the initial value when they changed it from 0, if I recall correctly. It was later changed into 25%.

[Cryos_Feron]

what is your sequence of   stickies/sabotage/shooting   to make sure the sticky-explosion gets the cloak bonus?

[Quarian Master Race]

I think 10% was the initial value when they changed it from 0, if I recall correctly. It was later changed into 25%.

Yes, I believe you're correct.

I was pretty pissed when I fired up lolSP a few months ago and it still had 100% shieldgate. You can't even OHK a Rocket cheater with Widow/Javelin headshot if it has a single bar of shields left.

Given, MM still has 70% increase in fire rate instead of 50%, which is pretty amazing. Cloak is still in its pre-nerf state as well.

[NuclearTech76]

what is your sequence of   stickies/sabotage/shooting   to make sure the sticky-explosion gets the cloak bonus?

Cloak, sabotage, sticky, shoot, sticky for free reload if bad enough to need it.

[Quarian Master Race]

what is your sequence of   stickies/sabotage/shooting   to make sure the sticky-explosion gets the cloak bonus?

depends upon the target(s), distance, equipped weapon and a number of other factors. For single shot weapons you can generally get away with cloak-sabo-shoot-reload hide with a grenade if you are close enough and all will fit into the cloak's damage window. Further away, you may want to lead with the grenade. This will still give you the oppourtunity to hide the reload with either sabotage or another grenade, which will give you huge burst damage if you've a tech ammo equipped. If you are nuking spawns, you may also want to lead with grenade to ensure you do maximum damage within the grenade's small radius before targets begin seperating.

The exception would be charge weapons, because if the weapon is already charged you get a free shot and grenade before you will start decloaking, thus will almost always lead with that. For this reason I like the Kishock and Arc Pistol on her quite a lot.

For most sustained fire weapons you want to get the grenade and sabo off before opening fire. There are some exceptions, for instance the BW or Wraith   where you can seamlessly work sabotage in between shots.

[Bud Halen]

depends upon the target(s), distance, equipped weapon and a number of other factors. For single shot weapons you can generally get away with cloak-sabo-shoot-reload hide with a grenade if you are close enough and all will fit into the cloak's damage window. Further away, you may want to lead with the grenade. This will still give you the oppourtunity to hide the reload with either sabotage or another grenade, which will give you huge burst damage if you've a tech ammo equipped. If you are nuking spawns, you may also want to lead with grenade to ensure you do maximum damage within the grenade's small radius before targets begin seperating.

The exception would be charge weapons, because if the weapon is already charged you get a free shot and grenade before you will start decloaking, thus will almost always lead with that. For this reason I like the Kishock and Arc Pistol on her quite a lot.

For most sustained fire weapons you want to get the grenade and sabo off before opening fire. There are some exceptions, for instance the BW or Wraith   where you can seamlessly work sabotage in between shots.

 

Just to verify/summarize:

 

The applied ammo effect damage for 'nades actually stuck to an enemy is determined by weapon base damage and any hip-fire penalties.

A charged whale gun or Arc won't change this damage amount?  Or is that 100% wrong?

 

Thanks...

[Deerber]

Just to verify/summarize:

 

The applied ammo effect damage for 'nades actually stuck to an enemy is determined by weapon base damage and any hip-fire penalties.

A charged whale gun or Arc won't change this damage amount?  Or is that 100% wrong?

 

Thanks...

 

Doing a quick search, I've come up with a post from Peddro saying that he seemed to recall that Arc Pistol charge bonus applies to base damage. If that is true, then there is a chance that the stickies will do more damage if your Arc is charged up. I say a chance, because they might work differently from real ammo application, we don't know.

[Quarian Master Race]

Just to verify/summarize:

 

The applied ammo effect damage for 'nades actually stuck to an enemy is determined by weapon base damage and any hip-fire penalties.

A charged whale gun or Arc won't change this damage amount?  Or is that 100% wrong?

 

Thanks...

AFAIK the applied ammo damage will be the same as that of a single non-charged shot from any charged weapon, i.e. charging the weapon before the grenade impacts makes no difference either way. I'm reluctant to state this as fact because I've never thoroughly tested it, but it would be easy to do with a weapon like the Arc Pistol which has vastly different damage between charged and non-charged modes. Kalence seems to think that the Kishock does the same ammo damage either way, but the Arc's changes....interesting. Either way I don't think it applies to stickies.

Anyway, in the kishock's case it is comparatively among the best weapons in this regard because it does huge damage per shot and furthermore is unaffected by hipfire penalties. For the arc pistol it isn't much, though it is important to note that even the by far best weapon in terms of applying single projectile ammo damage (scoped Javelin) will only do like 900 something per grenade with incendiary IV, which isn't even enough to get a gold Cannibal down to half health, let alone make a dent in something like an Atlas' 25000+ Armor points in terms of TTK. 

I generally don't bother with worrying about applied ammo damage when choosing a weapon because it is pretty insignificant, especially considering that it only applies to the single target which is stuck. Snipers are the best weapons if you really are concerned with that though, as even with hipfire penalties applied the higher damage per shot ones will still do more ammo damage than any other weapon (due to shotguns applying only a single pellet), nevermind that avoiding the penalty is easy if you are using the grenades to reload hide (or using a multishot sniper where you will probably be in scope for a while after throwing them anyway).

[Bud Halen]

AFAIK the applied ammo damage will be the same as that of a single non-charged shot from any charged weapon, i.e. charging the weapon before the grenade impacts makes no difference either way. I'm reluctant to state this as fact because I've never thoroughly tested it, but it would be easy to do with a weapon like the Arc Pistol which has vastly different damage between charged and non-charged modes. Kalence seems to think that the Kishock does the same ammo damage either way, but the Arc's changes....interesting. Either way I don't think it applies to stickies.

Anyway, in the kishock's case it is comparatively among the best weapons in this regard because it does huge damage per shot and furthermore is unaffected by hipfire penalties. For the arc pistol it isn't much, though it is important to note that even the by far best weapon in terms of applying single projectile ammo damage (scoped Javelin) will only do like 900 something per grenade with incendiary IV, which isn't even enough to get a gold Cannibal down to half health, let alone make a dent in something like an Atlas' 25000+ Armor points in terms of TTK. 

I generally don't bother with worrying about applied ammo damage when choosing a weapon because it is pretty insignificant, especially considering that it only applies to the single target which is stuck. Snipers are the best weapons if you really are concerned with that though, as even with hipfire penalties applied the higher damage per shot ones will still do more ammo damage than any other weapon (due to shotguns applying only a single pellet), nevermind that avoiding the penalty is easy if you are using the grenades to reload hide (or using a multishot sniper where you will probably be in scope for a while after throwing them anyway).

 

And my favorite part is the AoE you get from self-detonating TBs/FEs.

I use an Executioner on her for similar reasons (only 4 ranks into TC naturally).  I also boost her power passives, fully devoted to Sticky juice.

 

If the FE/TB can go off under the benefit of both Sab AND Cloak bonus...holy hell.  Damn near kills a gold Ravager with a single 'nade.

And the AoE blasts all unprotected surrounding mooks.

[Deerber]

And my favorite part is the AoE you get from self-detonating TBs/FEs.

I use an Executioner on her for similar reasons (only 4 ranks into TC naturally).  I also boost her power passives, fully devoted to Sticky juice.

 

If the FE/TB can go off under the benefit of both Sab AND Cloak bonus...holy hell.  Damn near kills a gold Ravager with a single 'nade.

And the AoE blasts all unprotected surrounding mooks.

 

Combos don't benefit from cloak in any way...

[Bud Halen]

Combos don't benefit from cloak in any way...

 

Yeah, this is more about the entire destructive explosion -- from an overall view.

The vast majority is coming from the 'nade damage anyway and not from the combo.  But the Sabbed combo contribution is quite nice indeed.

[Quarian Master Race]

And my favorite part is the AoE you get from self-detonating TBs/FEs.

I use an Executioner on her for similar reasons (only 4 ranks into TC naturally).  I also boost her power passives, fully devoted to Sticky juice.

 

If the FE/TB can go off under the benefit of both Sab AND Cloak bonus...holy hell.  Damn near kills a gold Ravager with a single 'nade.

And the AoE blasts all unprotected surrounding mooks.

Executioner applies ammo well and has good proc chance.

In my experience gold Ravagers are killed by a single cloaked grenade>sabotage and fire explosion. In fact on the builds linked above, with damage specs on the stickies and power amp they are doing 5610 of the Ravager's 8100 armor points by themselves, and that with my preference for weapon damage specs in passives (you can clear 6000 damage per nade otherwise). Then you have the damage from ammo application, Sabotage backfire and the tech burst/FE (the latter two of which get the 1.5x tech damage multiplier). As a final bonus, the swarmers are neatly nuked from existence this way

[Cryos_Feron]

...

This will still give you the oppourtunity to hide the reload with either sabotage or another grenade, which will give you huge burst damage if you've a tech ammo equipped.

why is that?

Does sabotage boost the ammo damage of the normal shooting?

I thought that this (sadly) wasn't the case,
but I would like that...

[Quarian Master Race]

why is that?

Does sabotage boost the ammo damage of the normal shooting?

I thought that this (sadly) wasn't the case,
but I would like that...

Sabotage does nothing for ammo damage, but tech explosions detonated by the ammo powered (Incendiary, Disruptor or Cryo) grenades get the 1.5x multiplier. 

Just remember that Incendiary ammo only primes on health/armor and cryo only on health. Disruptor primes on every defense type.