85 réponses à ce sujet

[Ziegrif]

The dynamic double trouble of a villainous tag team coming for the heroes booty?

Works for me.

[Akernis]

Krypplingz wrote...

Akernis wrote...

-Snip, snip-

Or an ally-turned antagonist, already was TWICE in Bioware games.
-----
Which ones were that?

KOTOR
Bastilla. 

SWTOR
I think the female smuggler can have a romantic encounter with one of the antagonists. (And kill him afterwards).

Right, did not know about the SWTOR one.
But Bastilla is a more special case, seeing as not only does she turn evil but you have to as well to continue the romance.
It is still not a protagonist-antagonist romance since she is loyally on your side again, both are just evil now (which I thought were very well done by the way, one of the few games where I enjoyed the evil ending, especially because of that).

Modifié par Akernis, 17 décembre 2013 - 12:18 .

[Nightdragon8]

sure as long as the protagonist is allowed to "steal" away the LI of the antagonist. Which if you do, makes the antagonist go into super berserk mode and a really hard boss option.

[Red Panda]

What if we could simply defeat the villain by orchestrating a bad break-up? Brilliant!

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Ziegrif wrote...

The dynamic double trouble of a villainous tag team coming for the heroes booty?

Works for me.

That was my thoughts exactly. People tend to put this in the wrong perspective. Im not sure if people even read the original post 

Lets say that in act 1, two assassins try to kill you. With lines like "With the bounty on your head, we can leave this accursed war" (To live happily ever after). 

Im talking about having 2 minor antagonists that has no morals, but that doesent mean they cant love eachother. Im baffled by the black and white view some people has on evil here. "EVIL PEOPLE CANT LOVE!" or "Immoral people cant love" is a pretty damn faulty (and ignorant) argument. 

The thing is that a deep love between 2 villains you encounter, opens a pletoria of great options. And Im not talking about a major impact on the main story. Rather a medium to long sidequest.

[Sc2mashimaro]

 Sooo... the title made me think of something a little different than the OP. I don't know how the OP's vision would work, but I like what popped in my head which was this: more autonomous moves by NPCs, including antagonists and party members. I loved the whole Garrus/Tali romance in ME3 because it made the NPCs and party members are mere puppets that wait for the PC to do something. The PC's choices should certainly still be important, but I think they mean more in a world where the characters appear to make dynamic decisions...

[KainD]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...
Im baffled by the black and white view some people has on evil here. "EVIL PEOPLE CANT LOVE!" or "Immoral people cant love" is a pretty damn faulty (and ignorant) argument. 

It's even the opposite actually. Evil/immoral people love a lot deeper and are more commited. And that's because they have less distractions, as they don't care about anyone else. 

Not sure who I am quoting here but, there's this quote: ''If a Chaotic Evil loves you, REALLY loves you, they will defend you with a fury that even the bravest "hero" could never match ... if you are in their heart, then you're a part of their inner world, and their inner world is everything to them.''  

This is why I personally find ''evil'' romances the most appealing ones. They are the most reliable and carring people once you earn their trust, and all you have to do is screw everyone else except for that person - simple. 

Modifié par KainD, 17 décembre 2013 - 04:30 .

[Star fury]

Akernis wrote...

Right, did not know about the SWTOR one.
But Bastilla is a more special case, seeing as not only does she turn evil but you have to as well to continue the romance.
It is still not a protagonist-antagonist romance since she is loyally on your side again, both are just evil now (which I thought were very well done by the way, one of the few games where I enjoyed the evil ending, especially because of that).

You can turn Bastila again to the Light side.

And I agree, the Dark side ending is incredibly more satisfying than the Light side one
- instead of a pesky medal you are emperor and rule the galaxy with Bastila. Long live lord Revan!

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

The_Huntress wrote...

Kaiser Arian wrote...

Most of the antagonists have no Romance. Either they're too busy with pursuing their goals or if they're so interested in sex they may just rape their victims.
Only the classy antagonists have their romance subject, that she/he is most likely in agreement with the acts and ideas of the antagonist (typically another "bad" person).

Love gone wrong is a compelling base for the bad guys.  Leandra (Hawk's mother) was caught in one such plot.

For this antagonist, think of all the hard tales from Origins.  Just how far will a person go to recover a lover made tranquil for a crime they did not commit? 

It need not always be romantic love.  How far would a mother go to protect her children?  If I could weave a spell that would remake the world in a much more peaceful existance at the cost of 5 billion people whom I do not know ... it is tempting.  Not just my children, but everyone for the reast of time would never know war or hatred or heartache.  Show me the switch and let's get it done.  Could you usher in 7 years of Armagedon if it would end agression forever? 

Good stories...

As I've not encountered a serious objection to my post in this thread, therefore it is owned by me and I call myself the victor! 

[DarthLaxian]

ShallowChasm wrote...

 I think this would be a cool idea, depending on the personality of the antagonist. My issue is that I feel like the main antagonist won't even be human, and if they are, tearing the veil and allowing demons into the world, causing mass chaos and potentially starting an apocalypse doesn't leave much room for romance. I understand the need for a more "human" antagonist, and I agree it would be a nice touch, but I'm not sure how well it would translate into the story.

Also, if it was kind of like DA:O where you have Loghain as a sort of mini-antagonist and the Archdemon as the main, I'd assume the "mini-antagonist" would be somehow connected to the Templar/Mage war, and therefore a romance would be kind of moot (In the case of a Templar/Chantry antagonist, romance is either restricted heavily or outright forbidden. I haven't really thought too much about a mage antagonist, so I really can't give a theory on that *shrug*)

Just my thoughts on the matter. Apologies if they don't really make sense. It's early and this is being written as coffee is brewing, so my mind is kind of cluttered 

hm...

on the contrary:

exactly this makes me think the main antagonist/antagonists are not demons/monsters this time (humans/elfs/dwarfs are capable of great evil and we know some people who would profit from a crisis (like say Tevinter - if the Qunari are threatened by the rifts for example (i would say the magisters face the least amount of danger from them, as they know the most powerful magics and if they are the ones doing it, they probably control even where rifts are forming or the mages themselves (or even the Templars to justify them coming down on the mages)...or the elfs - weakening everyone so that they can establish a new country/take revenge etc. ...)

it would be nice to fight someone who - from his/her/their point of view does what he thinks is best/necessary (hell, we have enough examples in the real world, from dropping the nuclear bomb(s) on Japan (not necessary for me and totally unjustified but most americans look at this very differently!) to fighting the vietnam war or even the war in Afghanistan/Iraq) without being totally evil and without compassion (hell, i would love being able to be kind to the antagonist (without knowing it for example) and then being shown kindness in return etc.

greetings LAX
ps: Antagonists with a real personality, likes and dislikes etc. are the best (mindless beasts are nice sometimes, too but i would love to fight someone i can actually hurt (by being cruel for example), confuse (by being kind) etc.

[Icy Magebane]

When I play video games, I'm not particularly interested in who my enemies are dating... It's strange enough seeing things that your PC isn't present for, and thus having knowledge beyond personal experience. Having intimate details about the antagonist is not only unnecessary, it's also unrealistic, unless you see this person often... like in the case of a traitor or double agent.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Kaiser Arian wrote...

Most of the antagonists have no Romance. Either they're too busy with pursuing their goals or if they're so interested in sex they may just rape their victims.
Only the classy antagonists have their romance subject, that she/he is most likely in agreement with the acts and ideas of the antagonist (typically another "bad" person).

So let's have a classy one. Those are always nice.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 17 décembre 2013 - 10:18 .

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Icy Magebane wrote...

When I play video games, I'm not particularly interested in who my enemies are dating... It's strange enough seeing things that your PC isn't present for, and thus having knowledge beyond personal experience. Having intimate details about the antagonist is not only unnecessary, it's also unrealistic, unless you see this person often... like in the case of a traitor or double agent.

What about when books have chapters about other characters the main one isn't present for? Or movie scenes where they show what the other characters are doing? Or games with those scenes as well?

Seems like a strange thing to be hung up on.

[Icy Magebane]

@The Flying Grey Warden - A fair point, but this is a relatively new medium that's more interactive than a book or movie could ever be. In books and movies, you are being told a story, not living through one. In a game, limiting the amount of knowledge the PC has to what he or she witnesses has the potential to make the game a more personal and realistic experience. It's a bit like the Elder Scrolls model. There really aren't any cutscenes or cinematics, and you only know what you experience first hand.

Now that I think about it, maybe this series isn't really about that kind of experience... Maybe I just want to play TES but with good writing. Oh well, I'm still not interested in who my enemies are dating or whether they like cream in their coffee.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Star fury wrote...

Akernis wrote...

Right, did not know about the SWTOR one.
But Bastilla is a more special case, seeing as not only does she turn evil but you have to as well to continue the romance.
It is still not a protagonist-antagonist romance since she is loyally on your side again, both are just evil now (which I thought were very well done by the way, one of the few games where I enjoyed the evil ending, especially because of that).

You can turn Bastila again to the Light side.

And I agree, the Dark side ending is incredibly more satisfying than the Light side one
- instead of a pesky medal you are emperor and rule the galaxy with Bastila. Long live lord Revan!

Shame KOTOR2 pretty much ignored the DS ending if you choose it

[BouncyFrag]

But does that men we'll get a clichéd antagonist LI vs protagonist LI fight scene? I vote for a bubble bath, pillow fight, tables and ladders match. While we are at it let's throw it in a cage suspended over a lava pit directly below the massive tear in the fade.

[Killdren88]

I rather we not have it at all. Do we really need to make the Antagonist sympathetic? Do we really need to see what their love life is like? I don't care about their love life. I care about how they are screwing everyone else over.

[Beerfish]

I want to steal his girlfriend and kick sand in his face at the end of the game.

[DarthLaxian]

Icy Magebane wrote...

When I play video games, I'm not particularly interested in who my enemies are dating... It's strange enough seeing things that your PC isn't present for, and thus having knowledge beyond personal experience. Having intimate details about the antagonist is not only unnecessary, it's also unrealistic, unless you see this person often... like in the case of a traitor or double agent.

of course it is "interesting" - if you plan on having intrigue, taking of hostages (what better hostage then the loved one of the enemy?), bribing people, spying on then, poisoning them (having them poisoned - not doing everything yourself, are you?) or having them killed/assassinated otherwise (hiring the crows, sending agents after them etc.)

so yes, please let me get to know my enemy (if i wish to) before going in for the kill (maybe i can talk them down, force them to give up, threaten them more effectively etc.)

greetings LAX

[shedevil3001]

if they hired eric winter to do a li voice over, i wouldn't care what storyline they came up with, i'd be swooning like a love struck teen, now that guy has an amazing voice and the smile that can make all bad things dissapear

[Killdren88]

DarthLaxian wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

When I play video games, I'm not particularly interested in who my enemies are dating... It's strange enough seeing things that your PC isn't present for, and thus having knowledge beyond personal experience. Having intimate details about the antagonist is not only unnecessary, it's also unrealistic, unless you see this person often... like in the case of a traitor or double agent.

of course it is "interesting" - if you plan on having intrigue, taking of hostages (what better hostage then the loved one of the enemy?), bribing people, spying on then, poisoning them (having them poisoned - not doing everything yourself, are you?) or having them killed/assassinated otherwise (hiring the crows, sending agents after them etc.)

so yes, please let me get to know my enemy (if i wish to) before going in for the kill (maybe i can talk them down, force them to give up, threaten them more effectively etc.)

greetings LAX

Real villians would not care if you took their bed fellows hostage. They can get another one.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Killdren88 wrote...

Real villians would not care if you took their bed fellows hostage. They can get another one.

Supposing the antagonist wasn't truly a villain, though? Supposing the Inquisitor was already in the wrong, and just decided to take it up to eleven? Or supposing the Inquisitor was dealing with someone who had their moral compass intact, but somehow opposed the Inquisitor anyway? (Plus or minus the Inquisitor being a dick.)

[Former_Fiend]

I've been lead to believe that the identity of the antagonist is going to be a mystery to be solved. The only reason for it to be a mystery is that we're going to be interacting with them prior to them being revealed as the antagonist.

With that in mind, there's no reason why they can't have a relationship with someone.

[eyesheild21]

Not a bad idea but if my inquisitor is anything like my warden then he is such a bad a## that he will just woo the antagonists lover away from him and have her join the inquisition.