13 réponses à ce sujet

[JasonShepard]

Update:

Right.

I have now reposted in the Off-topic forum, with an update based around the Chinese Room thought experiment. Meaning that The Question of Synthetic Intelligence is now here. (Let's hope this one doesn't mysteriously vanish...)

Update:

Okay, I've got a reply!

Ninja Stan is happy for me to repost the thread, but warned me that we need to keep things within a Mass Effect context to avoid the risk of being transferred to the Off-Topic forum in the future. So I'm probably going to edit the OP a bit before reposting. Considering Christmas is about to happen, I don't expect to get a repost up until the New Year.

A question to the people that were active in the thread - how happy would you be to discuss the topic in a more general sense within the Off-Topic forum? I usually don't spend much time in the Off-Topic forum, and it seems like it's mostly forum games there. (5 word sentences, that sort of thing.)

Still don't really know what happened to the original thread. Was anyone active on the thread around when it disappeared?

A big thank-you to Ninja Stan for getting back to me.

***

2 days ago, I created a new thread on the ME3 Campaign Forum. This thread was titled:

The Question of Synthetic Intelligence - with Rational Dentists, Ghosts in the Machine, Philosophical Zombies and Alan Turing chatting with computers

The OP of this thread was a casual philosophical discussion exploring whether or not synthetics - in the real world or in the Mass Effect universe - could be considered to be sentient and to experience consciousness.

The thread proved fairly popular, stretching to at least 7 pages (last time I saw it) of comments on the topic. I've had a couple of direct comments from people saying that they were enjoying the discussion.

***
The Problem:

When I logged into BSN this morning (11am GMT/ 6am EST), I found a message from BioWareMod01 informing me that the thread had been moved to the Off Topic forum since the conversation had derailed from the topic of Mass Effect. This message was sent at 7am GMT (2am EST).

The thread is not in the Off Topic forum. Nor is it in the ME3 Campaign Forum.

As far as I can tell, the thread titled "The Question of Synthetic Intelligence" no longer exists. At all.

10 hours ago I sent a message to BioWareMod01 explaining that the thread had disappeared.
5 hours ago I sent a second message, asking permission to recreate the thread in the ME3 Campaign Forum.
I have not recieved any acknowledgement of these messages.

***

This thread was not offensive. It was inspired by events within the Mass Effect series. The topic was being discussed by fans of the Mass Effect series. I've been informed by a friend that, about an hour before it disappeared, the topic of discussion was the Geth, which is very much  on topic for Mass Effect.

And on a personal level, I invested a fair amount of time and effort into writing the OP.
As a member of BSN, I do my best to be polite to other members at all times, to be polite towards the people at Bioware, and to contribute towards discussions. This has been my first ever direct contact with a moderator on these forums - in the almost 4 years since I joined up, I have done nothing to incur moderator wrath.

I am here because I am a fan - both of Dragon Age and Mass Effect - and because I enjoy discussing these games and the related topics.

And I would like my thread back. Please.

JasonShepard

Modifié par JasonShepard, 21 décembre 2013 - 05:28 .

[JasonShepard]

On a related note:

I question the decision to move the thread in the first place.

I realise that it is your decision to make (that is, it is the decision of the BioWare moderators to make). However, I believe the thread was justified in existing in the ME3 Campaign Forum.

Although the philosophical question of intelligence - artificial or otherwise - exists separate from Mass Effect, my thread was inspired by events from within the Mass Effect series. My OP was framed within the context of the Mass Effect Universe, and made consistent references towards Mass Effect.

Perhaps the discussion had been derailed away from Mass Effect. Since the thread is currently unavailable, I have no way of checking this myself. I have no way of checking whether the posters on the thread were warned that the discussion was moving towards topics that would get the thread itself moved. However, even if it were the case that the thread had begun talking about non-Mass Effect issues, those issues were presumably still related to the content of the OP, which was inspired by Mass Effect.

The entire discussion was inspired by Mass Effect.

And I believe that is a compliment to the writers and developers at BioWare: That the Mass Effect Universe can inspire a discussion of such questions; questions that many of us has asked at some or other point in our lives.
There is also the simple fact that many fans of Mass Effect within the forum were more than willing  to discuss these questions; questions that were raised by Mass Effect and explored within the thread.

Because of this, I personally believe that my thread's place is within the Mass Effect forums. Not the BSN Off-Topic Forums.

Modifié par JasonShepard, 17 décembre 2013 - 10:03 .

[ruggly]

Have you checked the forums tab in your profile? If it still exists, you should just be able to click on it from there to find it.

Never mind, didn't fully read your second post to see that you wrote it was unavailable.

Modifié par ruggly, 18 décembre 2013 - 12:23 .

[JasonShepard]

Yes, I have. There's no sign of it there (and it was there yesterday).

EDIT: No worries. 

Modifié par JasonShepard, 18 décembre 2013 - 12:25 .

[ruggly]

That's whack.

[Sc2mashimaro]

I was very disappointed to find that it was gone

It was really cool to have a high-brow discussion about the topic, since most of the time topics about synthetic intelligence descend into people calling each other "space racists" and "idiots" in alternating turns, rather than discussing the merits (or lack of merits) to considering synthetic life "living".

[Obadiah]

Still no answer on what happened to the thread or if we can repost?

*SHAKES HEAD*

For a choice between moderated and unmoderated forums, I rather the moderated forums, but this kind of moderation is just frustrating/annoying. Anyone know a good sci-fi forum I could visit?

[JasonShepard]

I find The Escapist to be tough but fair, and since it's a general gaming website I'm sure they'll talk sci-fi. I'm more familiar with BSN though - both the people and the conversation topics - which is why I'm here.

I am still asking questions about the thread. If there comes a point where I give up on getting an answer, I will just repost.

Modifié par JasonShepard, 19 décembre 2013 - 05:20 .

[Reorte]

I really, really hope that there isn't a policy on BSN to call threads off-topic if they are discussing general issues raised by their games. I can't regard that as anything other than anti-intellectual. This is not what moderation should be. If the thread had degenerated since I last saw it better to just lock it or remove the offending posts than move it without any notification, or delete it altogether.

[JasonShepard]

Okay, I've got a reply!

Ninja Stan is happy for me to repost the thread, but warned me that we need to keep things within a Mass Effect context to avoid the risk of being transferred to the Off-Topic forum in the future. So I'm probably going to edit the OP a bit before reposting. Considering Christmas is about to happen, I don't expect to get a repost up until the New Year.

A question to the people that were active in the thread - how happy would you be to discuss the topic in a more general sense within the Off-Topic forum? I usually don't spend much time in the Off-Topic forum, and it seems like it's mostly forum games there. (5 word sentences, that sort of thing.)

Still don't really know what happened to the original thread. Was anyone active on the thread around when it disappeared?

A big thank-you to Ninja Stan for getting back to me.

Modifié par JasonShepard, 19 décembre 2013 - 10:29 .

[Obadiah]

Er, did Ninja give an indication of what part of the thread was non-ME context related?

My suggestion is to post it in the off topic section and broaden it with other fictional references. It would be a more interesting discussion. But you are correct, it probably won't get nearly as much attention there. That way if we start going deep into Turing tests and rooms that speak Chinese the mods won't freak.

Modifié par Obadiah, 20 décembre 2013 - 03:50 .

[JasonShepard]

No, though if I had to guess then topics like Turing Tests and the Chinese Room won't have helped. Maybe we should have referred to it as the Turian Room?

[Ninja Stan]

[quote]Obadiah wrote...

Er, did Ninja give an indication of what part of the thread was non-ME context related?
[/quote[
Having not seen the original thread, I can't say.

[quote]My suggestion is to post it in the off topic section and broaden it with other fictional references. It would be a more interesting discussion. But you are correct, it probably won't get nearly as much attention there. That way if we start going deep into Turing tests and rooms that speak Chinese the mods won't freak.
[/quote]
True. It is possible to have a mostly ME3 related discussion, but participants would have to steer things back to ME3 game and lore with relative frequency. Having the thread in the OT forum means you can branch off more freely, but as you say, it may have less exposure there.

[JasonShepard]

Right.

I have now reposted in the Off-topic forum, with an update based around the Chinese Room thought experiment. Meaning that The Question of Synthetic Intelligence is now here. (Let's hope this one doesn't mysteriously vanish...)

Modifié par JasonShepard, 21 décembre 2013 - 05:28 .