86 réponses à ce sujet

[Basher of Glory]

When I played the game the first times after it's release I wondered, why they must bring in that romance-thing in EVERY game now. I mean, I understand, that it's kinda neat to have some flirting or more going on in an RPG with "adventurers", who are thrown into a situation and must handle it in one way or another.

In preparation of ME 2 I started some replays and still, I can't get over it.

Isn't Shepard different?
1) Commander (= Lieutenant Colonel) of the Alliance Fleet
2) Spectre (= important representative of humanity)
3) Career soldier

I guess, in every modern army it would be a great breach of discipline to fraternize with subordinates, even in peace times. Now, how the hell of a lot stricter this breach would be avengend if committed during a mission at death's doors?

Let's say, a male Shepard has a liaison with Ashley Williams. In Virmire he decides to rescue Ashley and let Kaigan die.
Who would ever believe him, that this tough call was made after an objective assessment of the situation?
Wouldn't this leader loose the respect of his entire crew immediately and hence be disqualified as officer, spectre and representative?

I'd really liked to see a conversation line like
"We met at the wrong time, but let's not forget about this. When all is done, we can continue..."

In my eyes a "true" Shepard must fend off all temptations and has to bear only his mission in his (her) mind.

Opinions?

Modifié par Baher of Glory, 20 janvier 2010 - 07:35 .

[Sialater]

Actually, if you stick your interest at the site of the nuke, it's entirely justifiable, professionally speaking, to rescue them, not the other. You can't know the Geth or Sovereign can't disable it, no matter what Joker says.

And you can go the all professional route if you think your Shepherd wouldn't fraternize.

Also, the big love scene happens when you've stolen the Normandy. Fraternization is the LEAST of your worries at that point.

Modifié par Sialater, 20 janvier 2010 - 07:38 .

[rayvioletta]

if you romance Ashley or Kaiden then they mention how such a romance is against the rules, etc. but yes, it is unprofessional, but also entirely realistic that it's an option, rules aren't always followed to the letter after all

[Fishy]

Sialater wrote...

Actually, if you stick your interest at the site of the nuke, it's entirely justifiable, professionally speaking, to rescue them, not the other. You can't know the Geth or Sovereign can't disable it, no matter what Joker says.

And you can go the all professional route if you think your Shepherd wouldn't fraternize.

Also, the big love scene happens when you've stolen the Normandy. Fraternization is the LEAST of your worries at that point.

Yeah but kaiden was still a Higher officer than Ashley ..

[RyuKazuha]

If you think it's unprofessional, just turn both of them down. That is also an option you get. ^^

[the last assassin]

I agree that it is unprofessional, that is why when on my first canon playthrough, I saved alenko instead of Williams, Alenko was at the bomb site, and I had to make sure that the bomb went off no matter what, so I rescued him at the bomb site instead of ashley.

[Basher of Glory]

I'm sure that we have lots of (ex-)soldiers here on these boards.

What would happen in a today's army, if a high ranking officer has love affairs with subordinates

a) in peace times

during important missions?

[PaladinXR]

You don't need a soldier to tell you that. If you get caught, you get punished. Either dishonorable discharge or perhaps a lesser punishment (demotion). It's like that with any job. Most jobs don't even want you to date coworkers on the same level as you.

That being said, it happens. You can't expect people to be forced into close situations with others and not to develop bonds.

Modifié par PaladinXR, 21 janvier 2010 - 06:17 .

[KBGeller]

Fortunately to err is to be human. So, it all works out.

[Apophis2412]

And Shepherd is a Spectre. The rules of the Alliance military don't apply to him.

[justinprince]

but he's also a Spectre so the "I do what I want don't question me" attitude will supercede the Commander in the Alliance

[Andorfiend]

Yes it's unprofessional. That's why you have the option of politely quashing the romance on that basis. At multiple junctures actually.



It does happen from time to time. And you do get punished for it. If you get caught. Although I think an Officer can resign their commison if they really want to pursue a relationship over their career.



The punishment depends on the relative ranks and positions (in the service, get your mind out of the gutter.) Relationships between officers or between enlisted individuals are alright, as long as you're not in the same chain-of-command. But the Captain does not get to shag his junior officers or enlistees. Ever. In peace or war. Even if they really wanted to, you can't prove the Captain didn't use the (immense) power of the office over them to coerce them into it.

[Andorfiend]

Of course strictly speaking Liara wasn't a crewmember, she was a civilian who happened to be tagging along. So Shep was okay knocking boots with her. Or Wrex for that matter.

[Kimarous]

1) At the time of "doing the deed", it was at during a full-blown "screw the rules" moment. Yes, you had a "thing" going on, but absolutely nothing comes of it romantically until the break for Ilos. Heck, one of your first dialogue options when they enter your quarters is having them drop the rank crap. As far as you two are concerned, your careers are finished as it is.



2) As Andorfiend mentioned, Liara isn't a technical member of your crew, let alone your government. Combined with a Spectre's *Palpatine voice* UNLIMITED POWERRRRRR! */palpatine*, I see no reason why you can't "Kirk it up" with her.



3) As far as ME2 is concerned, you technically aren't working for the Alliance anymore, but rather the shadow organization of Cerberus. Still a Spectre, you are virtually devoid of regulations and law. Do you really think the Illusive Man cares who you boink?

[nov_pl]

But Sheppard's like 007, it's in his/her blood

[Apophis2412]

One thing I dodn't understand that if it is unprofessional for Shepherd to start a relationship with Kaiden/Ashley/Liara, why people are okay with romances in the other BW games.



Isn't the Warden romancing Alistair or Leliana just as unprofessional?

[Karstedt]

Professionalism is overrated... seriously. There are a LOT if incompetent professionals out there.

[Basher of Glory]

Folks, let me say one thing: I live on this planet, too. I know about stuff, which is "forbidden" but will happen anytime and anywhere in any organization.
I don't deny the fact, that Shepard was in an outlaw position after (s)he stole the ship.
But (s)he was still the leader of the crew and as such (s)he should even more be an example of integrity. Even more, because the entire crew was bound to him / her for better or for worse. Let him / her make one small mistake and the rumours will start "... perhaps (s)he should use the head more than his / her **** ".
Uncertainty among the crew would be the result and the start of serious scrutinizing his / her right to lead.

@ Apophis2412
Please read my OP. IMO it is always unprofessional when a leader goes beyond the required distance to his / her followers, subordinates, teammates etc.
But "adventurers" are certainly not career soldiers and thus, they may have some flaws.

But especially in DA:O Whynne tries to remind the Warden, what his / her responsibilities are, right?

@ Karstedt:
Your statement is funny in my eyes. It's something like "there is a lot of salty sugar out there", right?
An incompetent person has given evidence the (s)he is NOT professional!

Modifié par Baher of Glory, 21 janvier 2010 - 02:23 .

[Willowhugger]

Uncertainty among the crew would be the result and the start of serious scrutinizing his / her right to lead.

At that point in my game, my Renegade had executed dozens of criminals without trial and my crew was blindingly loyal enough to follow me into Hell.  We were also pursuing a threat to all existence everywhere.

Really, seeking a little human comfort might improve my reputation with them.

[mepilot]

rayvioletta wrote...

if you romance Ashley or Kaiden then they mention how such a romance is against the rules, etc. but yes, it is unprofessional, but also entirely realistic that it's an option, rules aren't always followed to the letter after all

A Shep/Kaiden romance is not against the rules, unless Shep is male (don't ask don't tell!).  Officers are allowed to date other officers.  You just can't have officer/enlisted, Ashley is enlisted I believe.  Of course, this is the ME version so the use of the word 'fraternise' may mean or relate to rank too...

[SargeantRenegade]

Baher of Glory wrote...

Folks, let me say one thing: I live on this planet, too. I know about stuff, which is "forbidden" but will happen anytime and anywhere in any organization.
I don't deny the fact, that Shepard was in an outlaw position after (s)he stole the ship.
But (s)he was still the leader of the crew and as such (s)he should even more be an example of integrity. Even more, because the entire crew was bound to him / her for better or for worse. Let him / her make one small mistake and the rumours will start "... perhaps (s)he should use the head more than his / her **** ".
Uncertainty among the crew would be the result and the start of serious scrutinizing his / her right to lead.

Don't forget that this is science fiction.  Crew reactions to Shepard's actions can be dropped into convenient plotholes for the sake of a good story.

But especially in DA:O Whynne tries to remind the Warden, what his / her responsibilities are, right?

She also reverses her opinion and endorses whatever relationship you get into, on the grounds that "it's important to enjoy things while they last."

Everybody has responsibilities, or regulations to follow.  A romantic entanglement can act as a motivation for a leading character, whether it's professional or not.

[Xaenn]

I'm pretty sure the whole topic of "lack of professionalism" is irrelevant.

#1 It's a video game.
#2 Object of the game is to give you choices to get more immersed into the game itself, if you don't want to, don't. Putting in complaints or dislikes about something as such is pointless.
#3 Ashley actually makes a comment on removing your rank and taking your spot as commander or ranking officer, although I believe it to be a joke, but at least there is mention of some serious action towards lack-there-of professionalism.
#4 There is a lot of reasons why people fight, hope, love, survival, so on, people need a reason to keep fighting, to keep morale up, to remember why they are doing what they are doing.

If you were facing annihilation, and on the way home you J-walked, would you report yourself? lols. The thought of that sounds ridiculous.

Modifié par Xaenn, 21 janvier 2010 - 02:51 .

[Andorfiend]

mepilot wrote...

A Shep/Kaiden romance is not against the rules, unless Shep is male (don't ask don't tell!).  Officers are allowed to date other officers.  You just can't have officer/enlisted, Ashley is enlisted I believe.  Of course, this is the ME version so the use of the word 'fraternise' may mean or relate to rank too...

Nope. You're right that Officers can date other officers, but not in the same chain of command. And Kaiden is Shepard's direct subordinate. So that would be a big old No.

[Valmy]

If Eisenhower could have sex with his secretary and lead the Western Allies in World War II I think I will be fine. Besides, unlike Ike, Shepard is not even married.

Modifié par Valmy, 21 janvier 2010 - 04:21 .

[Sialater]

Professional, smeshional. YOU STOLE A PROTOTYPE WARSHIP. You and your crew are all headed for courts martial if you didn't pull off the saving of the Citadel. Not to mention the fact that, the minute you became a SPECTRE, you're not really in the same chain of command any more if it follows the ranking system of CIA/MI5 operatives (at least according to Hollywood).



What happens in the captain's quarters... well, stays in the captain's quarters.



Just like with the fraternization of the Grey Wardens in DA:O (if you're a female warden, it doesn't count if it's Zevran, Lelianna, or Morrigan), you're kinda IT for decision making.