1814 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

MassEffectFShep wrote...

iakus wrote...

Daemul wrote...

This topic is ridiculous, why does Shepard living or dying matter? Seriously, is this all people care about? This has to be a joke.

Because people foolishly thought they'd have a say in the fate of the character they spent five years playing.

I mean, what did they think this was, a role playing game?

seriously.

I never got much say in the other 2 games, a binary choice that impacted everyone else but my character. Why would the third one be different?

[rekn2]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

MassEffectFShep wrote...

iakus wrote...

Daemul wrote...

This topic is ridiculous, why does Shepard living or dying matter? Seriously, is this all people care about? This has to be a joke.

Because people foolishly thought they'd have a say in the fate of the character they spent five years playing.

I mean, what did they think this was, a role playing game?

seriously.

I never got much say in the other 2 games, a binary choice that impacted everyone else but my character. Why would the third one be different?

i would say youre wrong seeing as how you can kill shep in me2 which stops him from even seeing me3.

idk, looks to me like an overwelming majority thought me3 needed more choices that had relevance. in the end whos to say

[Dean_the_Young]

iakus wrote...

Daemul wrote...

This topic is ridiculous, why does Shepard living or dying matter? Seriously, is this all people care about? This has to be a joke.

Because people foolishly thought they'd have a say in the fate of the character they spent five years playing.

I mean, what did they think this was, a role playing game?

If it took the finale for them to realize that the Bioware RPG character they had been playing for five years had been on rails the whole time, then they deserve to be called out for being foolish. ME3 ends with a greater say in Shepard's fate than ME1 or ME2.

A Bethesda game Mass Effect was not, and never has been. Players have had about as much choice and say in Shepard's fate or path throughout the series as a ball falling towards the ground.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

rekn2 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

MassEffectFShep wrote...

iakus wrote...

Daemul wrote...

This topic is ridiculous, why does Shepard living or dying matter? Seriously, is this all people care about? This has to be a joke.

Because people foolishly thought they'd have a say in the fate of the character they spent five years playing.

I mean, what did they think this was, a role playing game?

seriously.

I never got much say in the other 2 games, a binary choice that impacted everyone else but my character. Why would the third one be different?

i would say youre wrong seeing as how you can kill shep in me2 which stops him from even seeing me3.

idk, looks to me like an overwelming majority thought me3 needed more choices that had relevance. in the end whos to say

I don't really think it counts if the fate of the character is completely ignored in ME3. It's like pointing to the fact that Morinth can murder you and saying "See, different fates!".

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

iakus wrote...

Daemul wrote...

This topic is ridiculous, why does Shepard living or dying matter? Seriously, is this all people care about? This has to be a joke.

Because people foolishly thought they'd have a say in the fate of the character they spent five years playing.

I mean, what did they think this was, a role playing game?

If it took the finale for them to realize that the Bioware RPG character they had been playing for five years had been on rails the whole time, then they deserve to be called out for being foolish. ME3 ends with a greater say in Shepard's fate than ME1 or ME2.

A Bethesda game Mass Effect was not, and never has been. Players have had about as much choice and say in Shepard's fate or path throughout the series as a ball falling towards the ground.

While I think this is true, I also think it's important to point out: since when has RPG been synonymous with "decide whether your character lives or dies?". I don't remember KotOR or Baldur's Gate 1 allowing such options. I think an RPG should have the ability to choose what significant choices it gives the player instead of expecting them to always provide a PC lives scenario.

[rekn2]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Honestly, clarity to the issue would be helpful, though I personally don't take it seriously.

I don't much of anything seriously from BW anymore. They've proven that they aren't worth my intelligent thought.

[Iakus]

[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...

Because people foolishly thought they'd have a say in the fate of the character they spent five years playing.

I mean, what did they think this was, a role playing game?[/quote]
If it took the finale for them to realize that the Bioware RPG character they had been playing for five years had been on rails the whole time, then they deserve to be called out for being foolish. ME3 ends with a greater say in Shepard's fate than ME1 or ME2.

A Bethesda game Mass Effect was not, and never has been. Players have had about as much choice and say in Shepard's fate or path throughout the series as a ball falling towards the ground.

[/quote]

Actually, it has been noted that ME1 and ME2 leave Shepard in pretty much the same spot regardless of choice.  The expectaton was that, since there will not be an ME4 (now a potentially erroneous assumption) teh developers will have free reign to go wild, creating all sorts of different outcomes for Shepard, the crew, and the galaxy.  In this game, our choices will matter.

And yet, the choice to survive, prettym uch the most basic chocie a person can make, was denied the player.  Like as Mac Walters described it, a tv character that we have been watching, but not participating in the stroy ourselves.  I find this a betrayal of the Mass Effect trilogy at its most basic level.  And it's not even the biggest complaint I have!

[Mcfly616]

iakus wrote...

.

And yet, the choice to survive, prettym uch the most basic chocie a person can make, was denied the player.  Like as Mac Walters described it, a tv character that we have been watching, but not participating in the stroy ourselves.  I find this a betrayal of the Mass Effect trilogy at its most basic level.  And it's not even the biggest complaint I have!

since when are we prompted with a choice as to whether we would like to live or die? Can't remember that ever happening in a videogame, let alone life in general.....and I've "participated" in both.


We may have some say as to the paths we walk through life. But, aside from suicide, nobody controls when their time is up. Shepard was at the end of the road. He played the cards he was dealt. That's life.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 22 décembre 2013 - 05:06 .

[Iakus]

Mcfly616 wrote...
 since when are we prompted with a choice as to whether we would like to live or die? Can't remember that ever happening in a videogame, let alone life in general.....and I've "participated" in both.

DAO
Fallout 3 
Jade Empire (though the "sacrifice" option is as much a joke as the "Refuse" option in ME3)
Chrono Trigger (specifically, ressurecting Chrono is optional)
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain 

We may have some say as to the paths we walk through life. But, aside from suicide, nobody controls when their time is up. Shepard was at the end of the road. He played the cards he was dealt. That's life.

No, not life.  A game.  A game they stacked against the player.

[Iakus]

StreetMagic wrote...

That said, I don't think you necessarily "die" in ME3. Unlike Iakus. He seems pretty hung up on this as a fact. I only share his frustration in the sense that the presentation sucks.

In part this is accurate.  The presentation was so horribly done one wonders why they bothered at all.

But the endings themselves are horrible.  Forcing Shepard to die in virtually all of them and a horribly presented "breath" in one simply magnifies the badness.  Shepard can't even score a Lee Everette-style heroic sacrifice.

And Bioware acting clueless as to why people feel this way makes me wonder if they've completely lost touch.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

iakus wrote...

Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain 

Props on mentioning Legacy of Kain, but shouldn't that be a perfect example of the lose-lose scenario? Aside from subsequent games completely ignoring your ending choice, the player is left to either sacrifice Kain to restore the pillars or refuse the sacrifice in order to rule his "corrupt and failing empire".

On one level, Soul Reaver completely ignored the player choice and on another, they forced the player into two extremely bad choices. I suppose the only think going for Blood Omen in this regard is that they reveal at the very beginning that the death of all the guardians will restore Nosgoth, compared to Shepard's out of the blue sacrifice.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 22 décembre 2013 - 05:41 .

[Iakus]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

iakus wrote...

Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain 

Props on mentioning Legacy of Kain, but shouldn't that be a perfect example of the lose-lose scenario? Aside from subsequent games completely ignoring your ending choice, the player is left to either sacrifice Kain to restore the pillars or refuse the sacrifice in order to rule his "corrupt and failing empire".

On one level, Soul Reaver completely ignored the player choice and on another, they forced the player into two extremely bad choices. I suppose the only think going for Blood Omen in this regard is that they reveal at the very beginning that the death of all the guardians will restore Nosgoth, compared to Shepard's out of the blue sacrifice.

My impression was always that the sacrfice option was simply rendered noncanon by the sequels, and Kain went on to become the "dark god" of Nosgoth.


Ooh, and how can I forget "Deus Ex: Human Revolution.  The game ME3 is compared to (badly) so much?

[dreamgazer]

Fallout 3

*only after a DLC retcon.

[Ravensword]

dreamgazer wrote...

Fallout 3

*only after a DLC retcon.

Apparently, Fawkes couldn't be bothered to go into the highly irradiated chamber b/c reasons. At least Bethesda retconned the Wanderer's death, but then Sarah Lyons died in his/her stad.

[dreamgazer]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Spec Ops: The Line.

That's an example of where it's done exceptionally well.  

Of course, it's also rather dark, no matter which choice you make.

[dreamgazer]

StreetMagic wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Spec Ops: The Line.

That's an example of where it's done exceptionally well.  

Of course, it's also rather dark, no matter which choice you make.

I keep hearing about that. I gotta play it.

You have to deal with some kinda sticky TPS controls and the game itself clocks in at a pretty short length, but the narrative is really well-executed.

[rapscallioness]

StreetMagic wrote...

The only thing I don't like about the "deaths" is a matter of differing values. I reject any kind of value system/worldview that makes a big deal about sacrifice. As if that's some special passage to get anything significant done. Anyone who talks like that can blow it out their ass. Killing (and survival) gets more done than sacrifice.

ME3 kind of pounds these ideals in your head, well before the ending (with Victus son, with Mordin, with Thane, with Legion, with the Krogan leaving flamethrowers in the rachni cave, etc. Sacrifice paving the way for others). It's like the whole Mass Effect universe turned into a Turian's wet dream. "Duty! Honor! Sacrifice! I'll gladly throw myself into the fire like cannon fodder" By the end, the player might feel Shepard needs to do the same thing.

There's probably a word for this type of worldview, but I don't know what it is. I usually just make fun of it by calling it "Catholic". A kind of self-flogging mentality. Maybe Hindus and Wiccans think this way too. Beats me. I'm probably just being an assh*le.

I don't think  you're being an azzhole. Prolly cuz I agree. Lol! The idea of being a martyr, and the idealization of it, I find to be very unhealthy and unnatural even. I mean, you know, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, but being a martyr has become quite glamorized. The Ultimate thing you can do. Bleh. Imo, the greatest way you can honor the, as I see it, miracle that is Life, is by doing everything w/in your power to actually live.

But it's a weird idea that's pretty deep in our heads now. ME3 was pretty heavy w/the "Sacrificial Lamb" thing, and being roped to the cross. At least in DA, they do bring up the idea that no, Andraste did not willing go to the flames. Or Aveline saying I understand sacrifice, but I will not be a sacrifice. Even Merrill challenges the idea in a long convo w/Sebastian.

[rapscallioness]

As far as what ME3 may, or may not have learned--well, BW in general--the one thing I hope they do different from now on is making sure they have a good wind down at the end. No more abrupt endings. I would prefer for them to wind it down and wrap it up. The EC I think did this. The EC may not have been all that great, but it did give a moment to wrap it up and wind it down.

If they had done something similar to the EC in the Original cut, I don't think there would have been nearly has much back lash. It was such an emotional story to have such a screeching end in the original version.

I like a bit of denouement to a story.

[rapscallioness]

It's still a very good series. In fact, I'm doing another playthru now w/ a freshly rolled Shep. All dlc included. (I haven't gotten the Omega, I just don't know if it's worth my 15 bucks.)

ME1-ME3. Ack, I just hope I can import her face cuz I suck at trying to recreate it. And I desperately hope that keeping Maelon's data registers in ME3 cuz.....you know...if I hear Bakara coughing again, I'm gonna friggin' RAWR!

[rekn2]

its why i dont like me3. in me2 you can bring a small group of elite people into a mission and get things done. they have intelligence operatives back home (normandy) relaying tactical information to their front soldiers. perfect!

never once in me2 did i feel the SM was actually suicidal. i had a damn fine team backing me up and trusted every one of them, their skill and competence PROVEN beforehand. i get a lot of flak on the bsn for questioning peoples intelligence. i did this multiple times for my squad mates in me3. i did this for the so called "leadership" of me3. i did this for the other NPCs as well.