1814 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

Countless people have demanded 'ambiguity' and shilled it's supposed maturity. This is it. This is exactly what it looks like.

I hope none of the people even slightly upset about Shepard not being clearly alive are the same people who shriek at the idea of the BioWare writers 'telling' the player anything. Which is tragically, a great deal of people.

Modifié par David7204, 23 décembre 2013 - 05:21 .

[Steelcan]

That abomination doesn't actually exist

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

Countless people have demanded 'ambiguity' and shilled it's supposed maturity. This is it. This is exactly what it looks like.

Actually, ambiguity looks differently in other settings and situations, and it very easily could have looked differently here with a few minor tweaks.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Countless people have demanded 'ambiguity' and shilled it's supposed maturity. This is it. This is exactly what it looks like.

There are appropriate times for ambiguity in themes or in the morals of characters.  This iant ambiguity, its a cop out.  The intent of the breath scene seems pretty clear.  Denying the final reveal is just pointless, its not ambiguous really, it only is for those who want Shepard to be dead

[David7204]

If the breathe scene was clear, we wouldn't have countless people whining about it, now would we? We wouldn't have the demands to show Shepard.

So obviously, it isn't considered clear it all.

Modifié par David7204, 23 décembre 2013 - 05:24 .

[Iakus]

David7204 wrote...

More or less. Showing that Shepard is definitively alive with a clear 'happy' ending would have sent too strong of a message that Destroy is the 'right' choice. And that's clearly something they wanted to avoid.

A stupid decision? Maybe. But no result of laziness. Well, not with the Extended Cut, at least.

Which is why I firmly believe that there should have been outcomes (if certain conditions were met) in all three choices (not just Destroy)  that allowed Shepard to live.


It was a mistake to tie Shepard's (hinted at) survival to a certain color.

Modifié par iakus, 23 décembre 2013 - 05:25 .

[dreamgazer]

Pretty sure they wanted a placeholder, just in case.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

If the breathe scene was clear, we wouldn't have countless people whining about it, now would we? We wouldn't have the demands to show Shepard.

So obviously, it isn't considered clear it all.

.  I doubt that anyone actually believes its anyone besides Shepard, minus a few IT loons.  They may bemoan the ambiguoty of the identity, but Im willing to say they know exactly who is being shown taking a breath, and it isntrandom grunt #15853

[angol fear]

crimzontearz wrote...

No, their approch is clearly an artistic research. Even minimalism is an aesthetic (while for Mass Effect it clearly isn't minimalism). You may dislike it, you have the right to dislike it, but when you make fun of art, you are making yourself ridiculous and what you say can't be taken seriously because of these jokes.

I am making fun of their stance not of art. Get it right

Also, the ending WAS minimalist especially the OE, and the breath scene is STILL minimalist in its delivery, which as you said is in contrast with the rest of the ME's approach which makes it all the more aggravating.

Ok, let's say that you're making fun of their stance and not art . (but if you really knew what art is, you wouldn't make fun of their stance).
Now, the rest of Mass Effect has taken this approach : for instance, did you notice the religion theme? Did you see how it was used in Mass Effect 1? Why would they repeat what they have said in the first game? The ending didn't change the approach.
Also, you should know the difference between using implicit and being minimalist. That's not the same thing at all!

[David7204]

So tell me. If people are sure it's Shepard and sure he or she is alive, why exactly do I see people complaining that Shepard wasn't shown alive?

[dreamgazer]

StreetMagic wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Pretty sure they wanted a placeholder, just in case.

What do you mean?

In case they actually do want to revisit Shepard's story.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

So tell me. If people are sure it's Shepard and sure he or she is alive, why exactly do I see people complaining that Shepard wasn't shown alive?

.  Because they feel cheated out of the final confirmation,or because they want to complain about something because they dont like the endings, or maybe they hate that its so obvious in ita intentbut doesnt go the whole way so they hate it out of spite.

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

So tell me. If people are sure it's Shepard and sure he or she is alive, why exactly do I see people complaining that Shepard wasn't shown alive?

Because it could be a depiction of Shepard's last breath before dying, according to a few in this discussion.

Read back through the thread to see where their concern stems from.

[crimzontearz]

I never asked for ambiguity david. Never will either

[KaiserShep]

David7204 wrote...

So tell me. If people are sure it's Shepard and sure he or she is alive, why exactly do I see people complaining that Shepard wasn't shown alive?

As an example, take the reveal of Keyser Soze. When Kujan realizes the deception after looking at the wall, we get the scene of Verbal Kint actually showing that all of his mannerisms and gimped stride were in fact a clever ruse. Instead of this scene, imagine Kujan ran out of the building, and Verbal simply wasn't there. We don't see the change in his gait or being picked up by Kobayashi. He's just gone. The message is largely the same, but it lacks some of the satisfying imagery.

I accept the breath scene as confirmation of Shepard's survival, but even I have to admit that the scene doesn't strike that chord that instills satisfaction either.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 23 décembre 2013 - 05:40 .

[Iakus]

David7204 wrote...

So tell me. If people are sure it's Shepard and sure he or she is alive, why exactly do I see people complaining that Shepard wasn't shown alive?

Because Shepard was shown grievously injured even before walking into a ginormous fireball.

Absolutely nothing different plays out in 3100 EMS Destroy that's different from 3099 EMS Destroy that explains why Shepard should be alive.

Shepard is seen partly buried in rubble, alone, not getting up, in a part of the Citadel never explored by organics.  No one would even know where to look.

Shepard was apparantly written off as dead by everyone but the LI.

Shepard is alive right now.  But long-term prognosis is very grim.  Heck short-term prognosis is very grim.  As a ssequel hook, it might work.  But this is the end of Shepard's story. 

Shepard's story ends, best-case, being shown alone, hurt, and abandoned.

You see the problem so many people have with this?

[dreamgazer]

StreetMagic wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Pretty sure they wanted a placeholder, just in case.

What do you mean?

In case they actually do want to revisit Shepard's story.

I see. I guess TV shows do that often (if they don't know a season will be renewed or not, they give themselves various outs).

It's a very common thing. 

Shepard's journey against the Reapers came to a close, and that's how I'd prefer they ended his/her story, but they could pull a Halo 4 if they really wanted to.  Hell, they could bullshit their way around a version of Shepard being resurrected in all the ending states. 

[Steelcan]

The implication of the scene is that Shepard survives, the LI if on the Normandy apparently knows this. You have to be intentionally wanting a dark ending to think Shepard croaks right after that. It may defy logic but that's not really important in ME.

[crimzontearz]

Ok, let's say that you're making fun of their stance and not art . (but if you really knew what art is, you wouldn't make fun of their stance).
Now, the rest of Mass Effect has taken this approach : for instance, did you notice the religion theme? Did you see how it was used in Mass Effect 1? Why would they repeat what they have said in the first game? The ending didn't change the approach.
Also, you should know the difference between using implicit and being minimalist. That's not the same thing at all!

You are AGAIN misunderstanding. Bioware's stance on defending the ending, JUST.THAT.

I am not talking about any other theme.

That said using the implicit is nulled by WORD OF GOD, which has been contradictory. Furthermore, this is a storytelling medium, a visual one at that, while the author intent is obvious it means squat if it is received the wrong way, and it has.

I paid to be told a story, and I am told to "headcanon" the fate of the protagonist, so even on pure principle I could not accept that.

[KaiserShep]

We have to head-canonize our way through every ending. While Shepard's fate is much clearer in those endings, the idea that the reapers will be continually benevolent for all time certainly is not. Renegade control is the exception, however, since the Shepard AI clearly has bad intentions.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 23 décembre 2013 - 05:47 .

[Iakus]

StreetMagic wrote...

I can only hope they just want us to feel alone and abandoned for the time being (see my previous post about Eve and her rite to become shaman).

If they actually want "alone and abandoned" to be the final, definitive conclusion though, I might have to laugh. That's so depressing it's funny.

You would have thought a dlc designed to add "clarity and closure" would have added something to that...