1814 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

StreetMagic wrote...

I get the feeling dreamgazer prefers Eraserhead to the Straight Story.

I prefer Mulholland Drive above both. 

(Actually, in that instance, I prefer The Straight Story).

[crimzontearz]

I have no issues with accents


It's when they butcher my language and expect me to suspend my disbelief about it that I get cranky (without even getting into the whole cultural side of things)

[Zazzerka]

In America, they use my "language" to sell steaks. I laugh about it.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

iakus wrote...

And there we have the difference between a movie, where we are passive observer's watching Michael's life play out, and a video game with a choice-based narrative, where we can shape Shepard's life.

Plenty of great gaming stories have involved the player as a passive observer. You listed one a while back via Legacy of Kain and 99% of that story is pretty downer, but still better than most other gaming narratives I've seen.

Why should we be forced to have a tragic outcome regardless of Shepard's circumstances?  

In an ideal world? You probably wouldn't. But this certainly wouldn't be the first RPG where the game limits you to outcomes some might find generic. Baldur's Gate 1 did a pretty bad job here. KotOR doesn't let the player have a heroic sacrifice. Witcher 2 has Geralt focusing on reconnecting with his past, etc.

On some level, forced outcomes are part of the norm. It's just the type of forced outcome that changes.

[KaiserShep]

StreetMagic wrote...

I'd kind of like the survival horror though, if it was localized. Like in Batarian space. Their life must suck. I'd like to play the Batarian version of Mad Max.

Lol, yeah the batarians were pretty much the MEU whipping boys to the very end.

[crimzontearz]

In America, they use my "language" to sell steaks. I laugh about it.

accent....not language


I also live in Boston which means I get all sorts of 3d 4th and 5th gen individuals trying to speak in Italian with me......spoiler alert....I am nit nice to them

[Zazzerka]

This feels like one of those "privilege" dilemmas.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Eryri wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

I'll take that if you ask me. Good emotional payoff allows me to bear with other shortcomings

I prefer more logic to my endings, not more magic fairies appearing out of nowhere to make everything better without reason. Plenty of other films with happy endings have failed miserably.

I agree to a point. I suppose it depends on how skillfully it's handled. Films like the Avengers are still satisfying despite being a load of old nonsense when looked at rationally. Perhaps because of the quality of other elements such as humour and characterization.
My ideal ending would be both logically satisfying and emotionally uplifting, but I'll usually settle for daft but happy if it's all that's on offer. Next down the list would be a logically consistent but depressing ending. Finally, the worst of all possible worlds would be something that makes no sense, but is still a downer. Which unfortunately is largely what we got.

I can agree with this to a point as well. The big deal here is that the Avengers opens up as popcorn entertainment and follows all the way through. There's certain things I never expect to happen, like the writers killing Iron Man or Captain America, because they want a franchise from this thing.

I can enjoy the Avengers as popcorn entertainment, especially since it does poke fun at itself. Citadel dlc aside which did hit me with an Avengers vibe, Mass Effect never really embraces that style.

[dreamgazer]

I choose to stay out of Avengers ending discussions, because Whedon. But ... yeah.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Bittersweet TV Shows Series that worked: ever watch the series Fringe? If you haven't it's a good one.

Justified is another TV series that hits in morally gray areas. My favorites character? Boyd Crowder.

Another interesting one is Dexter. It hits in the morally gray areas.

A bittersweet ending that didn't work? Mass Effect 3. One reason is that it dragged out for too long and the entire action stopped -- if Shepard had fired the crucible at Anderson's death scene after Hackett called and died I think I could have lived with it -- they even could have thrown in the breath scene for the high EMS. I know -- you wanted choices, but sometimes choice doesn't work.

The reason it didn't work was Starbrat's information dump and the three choices from hell. That brought the plot to a standstill. That's why the ending didn't work. And there really was no need for the choices anyway -- all the endings were virtually identical except for the color of the explosions on your screen: you died, the relays exploded, and the Normandy crashed. The End.

[spirosz]

Eraserhead was a strange film.

[CynicalShep]

Holly, this thread is still going

[dreamgazer]

Fringe is great, aside from the last half-season. It's an example of the vague super-weapon done noticeably worse than ME3. But I know what bittersweet part you're talking about, Julia, and I agree.

Not touching Dexter. It's a solid show that lost its luster after four seasons, then ended pathetically.

[jtav]

There's nothing about gaming as a medium or even the create-your-own protagonist that says things must end happily for the protagonist. I'll be picking up Papers, Please later, and I'm betting that's going to be a lot more bleak than ME.

The "problem" is that ME has always been rather pulpy. You beat up bad guys, save good guys, and romance the person of your choice. There are approximately three difficult moral decisions if you play properly. And then suddenly, you've got a heck of a moral trilemma tight at the end. I happen to like that better, but it's not something most players are prepped for.

[Iakus]

[quote]BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Plenty of great gaming stories have involved the player as a passive observer. You listed one a while back via Legacy of Kain and 99% of that story is pretty downer, but still better than most other gaming narratives I've seen.[/quote]

But Mass Effect was not one of these games.  For five years they touted how our choices shape Shepard's story.  Each was different.


[quote]
Why should we be forced to have a tragic outcome regardless of Shepard's circumstances?  
[/quote]

In an ideal world? You probably wouldn't. But this certainly wouldn't be the first RPG where the game limits you to outcomes some might find generic. Baldur's Gate 1 did a pretty bad job here. KotOR doesn't let the player have a heroic sacrifice. Witcher 2 has Geralt focusing on reconnecting with his past, etc.

On some level, forced outcomes are part of the norm. It's just the type of forced outcome that changes. [/quote]

Funny thing, KOTOR was going to have a "heroic sacrifice" ending where Revan went DS but could still destroy the Star Forge.  But it got dropped.

But here, it doesn't have to be an ideal world.  It just has to be one where Bioware doesn't simply say whatever it takes to keep fans invested.  Bioware claimed Mass Effect was different.  That there was no canon.  That there would be miltitudes of possible endings.  Yet Shepard's outcome is as focused as a laser.  

[spirosz]

Losing Shepard wasn't my problem and I wasn't prepared for the execution that was expressed through what was build up, compared to being prepared for those "themes" (which were fine) - I've seen them in other games and done very well, so.

[eyezonlyii]

StreetMagic wrote...

Never deny a cannoli. That's going too far, man.

my boyfriend broke up with me. then took me for my first cannoli. We got back together.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Dexter I only saw two seasons. I agree about the last half of the fifth season of Fringe, hey it was great for 4.5 seasons, but yeah, that bittersweet part was done right.

An older HBO series that runs three seasons is Deadwood. Very morally gray. Supposed to be set in Deadwood SD during its goldrush.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

iakus wrote...

But Mass Effect was not one of these games.  For five years they touted how our choices shape Shepard's story.  Each was different.

Apologies. I overlooked the "choice-based narrative" bit from your post, focusing on the movies vs. games bit.

But here, it doesn't have to be an ideal world.  It just has to be one where Bioware doesn't simply say whatever it takes to keep fans invested.  Bioware claimed Mass Effect was different.  That there was no canon.  That there would be miltitudes of possible endings.  Yet Shepard's outcome is as focused as a laser.  

Yes, Bioware certainly claimed a lot of things and in quite a few cases, failed to deliver. This is where it becomes important to weigh in on whether what Bioware says holds water.

You have plenty of situations where Bioware goes out of their way to deny players perfectly viable options. Having to make a decision on the Rachni Queen instead of simply leaving her in the cage, ME2 and Cerberus, Arrival, etc. None of these scenarios might be ideal, but simply homing in on what Bioware claims doesn't really help us.

[AlanC9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The reason it didn't work was Starbrat's information dump and the three choices from hell. That brought the plot to a standstill. That's why the ending didn't work.

Is the plot coming to a standstill, or is Shepard finally discovering what the actual plot is?

[Nightdragon8]

crimzontearz wrote...

I have no issues with accents


It's when they butcher my language and expect me to suspend my disbelief about it that I get cranky (without even getting into the whole cultural side of things)

thats more of a failing of the Voice acting and Actor in general comunitiy more than that of BW's fualt.

You are basicly saying that they should get blastd for having too many of one ethiic background, when no one wants to step up and let them use there voice for a reasonable price.

So its about supply and demand, BW may have the demand, but if no one is supplying they have to do other things.

[Redbelle]

Here's the thing about Bioware. They make great first games...... but the sequel's tend to lack something unless they've had an overhaul.

Thinking back to KOTOR, the sequel...... wasn't bad, but there was alot of cut content and ultimately, it didn't carry the same sheen or flow as the original. And both games from a control/graphic perspective are incredibly similar.

DA has had a great first game and then DA2 just copied the style of game, apart from a few tweaks here and there. While also mimicking how it, as a sequel, performed in the public arena. In much the same way as KOTOR2.

Then there's the ME series. And this is the one time..... (Ignoring the BG series) that BW bucked the trend. ME2 was better in nearly all respects to ME1. And when you look at ME2 and comare it to ME1 it's clear that BW threw nearly everything out, kept the good stuff, and then rebuilt it from the ground up to create a platform to create more ME.

Then ME3 happened and though it's not bad, it lacks the sheen in some of the gameplay.

The short of this train of thought is that when BW create something from scratch, it's amazingly good. But when they lean on the support of an existing game engine to support a sequel, things don't seem to line up properly. And right now..... my attention is on DA:I. It's a sequel..... but I think BW had to redevelop alot to bring this installment of DA into existance. I'm hoping it'll buck the curse of BW sequel's.