1814 réponses à ce sujet

[crimzontearz]

Oh yeah Halo 4 and Walking Dead were pretty gud.

She said that to
me once. ...about being a machine -SOB-

[Rusty Sandusky]

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...
Let's just pretend as if Assassin's Creed 3 didn't happen, mmk?

But Haytham

Ratonhnhaké:ton>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Modifié par ThisOnesUsername, 28 décembre 2013 - 02:52 .

[Mr.House]

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...
Let's just pretend as if Assassin's Creed 3 didn't happen, mmk?

But Haytham

Sadly that does not last too long, thus we are stuck with monotone naive moronic Connor.

[AresKeith]

ThisOnesUsername wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

good games, like list a few?

Halo 4, Dishonored, Borderlands 2, Deus Ex (mac), Darksiders 2, The Witcher 2 EE

NO.

I liked Halo 4 

Modifié par AresKeith, 28 décembre 2013 - 03:05 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

AresKeith wrote...

ThisOnesUsername wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

good games, like list a few?

Halo 4, Dishonored, Borderlands 2, Deus Ex (mac), Darksiders 2, The Witcher 2 EE

NO.

I liked Halo 4 

Yeah, Halo 4 was good.

It wasn't the same as the Bungie Halo's, mainly because I think my general interest in that series has waned quite a bit. MP wasn't what it used to be either.

Regardless, I really like where they're taking the series.

[AresKeith]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

ThisOnesUsername wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

good games, like list a few?

Halo 4, Dishonored, Borderlands 2, Deus Ex (mac), Darksiders 2, The Witcher 2 EE

NO.

I liked Halo 4 

Yeah, Halo 4 was good.

It wasn't the same as the Bungie Halo's, mainly because I think my general interest in that series has waned quite a bit. MP wasn't what it used to be either.

Regardless, I really like where they're taking the series.

Speaking of Bungie, I'm still very interested in Destiny

[Karlone123]

I know new teams come with new ideas, but I did not like how they shoehorned the the whole thing between the Geth and Quarians in ME2 and made it the the main storyline within the last 10 minutes of the game. That was very poor. I found ME3 to be quite sloppy on how it was made, how storyarchs were pieced together and some ended with no resolution at all. Just because ME3 is a Mass Effect game does not make it an excellent game by default.

I love the series up until ME3, Now I am not saying ME3 did not have its good moments cause it did. Mainly in the dlcs which made the game feel less underwhelming. I did not like the lack of player control over dialogue as I wish I could have chosen an opinion myself as Shepard would often contradict himself quite a few times. I hope in the future players can have more choice and more control to express the character we are playing. I am quite shocked Bioware did not see this as a problem, I do not know if they thought we would we enjoy constant dialogue from the player character.

Another problem I have with the game is the dialogue we engaged in was not so interesting, I enjoyed listening to Ashley talk about her family, I liked listening to Kaidan criticise the galaxy lack action over Saren and Garrus talk about prefering quick action over doing things "by the book". And Shepard responding to those conversations were plentiful and varied as opposed to to the more narrow views Shepard could have in ME3. That is a loss. If Bioware names ME3 as its best product as of late, then I will be wary on how they will make ME4. I hope Mass Effect does something new and distance itself from the ideas behind ME3. Bioware did deserve to be proud of themselves for making ME1 and ME2.

Modifié par Karlone123, 28 décembre 2013 - 05:16 .

[crimzontearz]

"Should" is a strong word.

And I stand by it

Speaking of Bungie, I'm still very interested in Destiny

I was too until the last interviews

[Invisible Man]

destiny did seem interesting to me, though honestly didn't keep track of it after the initial trailers. to many other things to mess around with that I have here & now.

Modifié par Invisible Man, 28 décembre 2013 - 12:52 .

[crimzontearz]

My problem with it is the constant push for socialization. That is not what I play a game for. And the last interviews are rather contradictory about how much can be done by oneself and how much requires "forced" co op

So I'm gonna wait

[Linkenski]

Karlone123 wrote...

I know new teams come with new ideas, but I did not like how they shoehorned the the whole thing between the Geth and Quarians in ME2 and made it the the main storyline within the last 10 minutes of the game. That was very poor. I found ME3 to be quite sloppy on how it was made, how storyarchs were pieced together and some ended with no resolution at all. Just because ME3 is a Mass Effect game does not make it an excellent game by default.

I love the series up until ME3, Now I am not saying ME3 did not have its good moments cause it did. Mainly in the dlcs which made the game feel less underwhelming. I did not like the lack of player control over dialogue as I wish I could have chosen an opinion myself as Shepard would often contradict himself quite a few times. I hope in the future players can have more choice and more control to express the character we are playing. I am quite shocked Bioware did not see this as a problem, I do not know if they thought we would we enjoy constant dialogue from the player character.

Another problem I have with the game is the dialogue we engaged in was not so interesting, I enjoyed listening to Ashley talk about her family, I liked listening to Kaidan criticise the galaxy lack action over Saren and Garrus talk about prefering quick action over doing things "by the book". And Shepard responding to those conversations were plentiful and varied as opposed to to the more narrow views Shepard could have in ME3. That is a loss. If Bioware names ME3 as its best product as of late, then I will be wary on how they will make ME4. I hope Mass Effect does something new and distance itself from the ideas behind ME3. Bioware did deserve to be proud of themselves for making ME1 and ME2.

Luckily ME2 is the one that ended up on most VG Journalists "Top 10 of the decade"... alright I only remember IGN's list, but I hope Bioware took note of that and realised that despite the big-scaleness and blockbusterness of ME3 something was not as satisfactory for the majority about it, and they will reconsider some fundamental things for ME4 instead of keeping the trend.

But I'm still pretty sure Bioware overrates how much people actually value the third installment compared to the others. It's just a gut feeling from watching several interviews after ME3 from Bioware. Hopefully the next ME game has a 2+ year dev cycle and not 1.5 like ME3 because we need dat polish and we've had enough rushed writing.

[dreamgazer]

Mass Effect 3 raked in plenty of awards, if you actually care about that kind of thing.

[crimzontearz]

as for learning lessons here is a lil nugget

http://www.p4rgaming...ferent-endings/

Lesson to learn

Be ****ing humble, admit you were DEAD wrong

[dreamgazer]

crimzontearz wrote...

as for learning lessons here is a lil nugget

http://www.p4rgaming...ferent-endings/

Lesson to learn

Be ****ing humble, admit you were DEAD wrong

Old sport, that's a satirical website.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

dreamgazer wrote...

Mass Effect 3 raked in plenty of awards, if you actually care about that kind of thing.

I don't. Especially when I see the same games winning the same awards every year (CoD).

I won't say that I believe BW or EA was pandering for good reviews, but I will say that I believe that many game sites and magazines enjoy supporting the big names.

[crimzontearz]

......who you calling old????

[crimzontearz]

Damn google I knew I copied the wrong freaking article's link, I meant to post the "you do not need answers" interview...crap

[crimzontearz]

I've seen it before but I know it was discredited (it was on another site tho) I meant to post the "you do not need to know" interview

[Xamufam]

This article talks about player agency choices how a game should end, resolving conflicts, tying up loose ends, fulfilling player expectations & it's mac walters
http://www.nowgamer....me_endings.html

The End: BioWare Talks About Game Endings

Samuel Roberts

We speak to BioWare about endings in video games.

Published on Jul 22, 2011

The ending of a videogame should be the most satisfying part of the experience – a reward, as it were, for your struggles – but it still has the capacity to go completely wrong.

We speak to acclaimed RPG developers Bethesda and BioWare about being progressive in tying up a game’s loose ends, while tracking down the endings that make us satisfied, sad or just plain old enraged…

The ending of a game sees players at their most opinionated. Realising that the experience is over, it’s the time to judge whether a game was worth the money you paid for it or not.

Your judgement, however, is affected by the method with which the developer just chose to end the playthrough. In a situation where the ending is much worse than the overall experience, you’re probably sad or perplexed.

In a scenario where a mediocre game ended really well, on the other hand, you’ll probably go away thinking the product is much better than it actually was.

Just in those two familiar circumstances, you can see how important it is to get this part of the design right. “For me, a great videogame ending is one that doesn’t have a frustrating boss battle,” says Emil Pagliarulo, lead writer on Fallout 3.

“Seriously. It is my single least favourite thing in videogames, period. It’s just so predictably annoying. And you can always tell when it’s coming. Like, ‘Okay, I’m 2/3 of the way done with the game, and I’ve fought the miniboss, and the bigger miniboss. And hey! Look! Suddenly there are ammo crates everywhere! Guess it’s time to fight the big mega boss!’ Ugh."

"It’s almost like you can read the developers’ minds at that point. They’re thinking they need to challenge the player, and have an ending sequence that forces you to use all the skills you’ve acquired. What they don’t realise is that an ending like this may be logical, but it’s very rarely fun."

Red Dead's contraversial ending was enough to spoil the game for many.

Pagliarulo cites a problem that has plagued games pretty much since their inception: a boss battle is the still the preferred way to end a game, despite being as long-in-the-tooth an idea as rainbow suspenders.

“So, what I want for an ending,” he continues, “is for the story to end in a cool way, to maybe throw a couple of twists my way, make me feel like a badass, and, above all, not be annoying or frustratingly difficult.”

Fallout 3’s ending certainly reflects that attitude. In the game’s final moments, the player has to choose whether to survive or sacrifice their character in an effort to save the Capital Wasteland.

Mass Effect 2’s lead writer, Mac Walters, has a slightly different approach to this aspect of game development. Walters is one of the masterminds behind Mass Effect 2’s classy multi-stranded ending sequence, during which all or none of the characters in your party – including Shepard, the hero – can perish depending on the choices you made earlier in the game. Essentially, the ending is there to reflect you, the player, and the petulant or well-conceived nature of your actions.

“A successful game ending shares some elements with good endings in other mediums,” he says. “They should resolve the conflicts of the main character, tie together any loose ends, complete the story you started to tell, and leave the player satisfied and entertained. However, a successful game ending has a few additional elements.”

Walters goes on to share his three rules on creating a great ending, the first of which is about the player’s relationship to their past experiences within the game: “The ending should reflect the way the player chose to play the game."

For many, Portal's ending is the best part of the game.

"By this point in the story, the game should have had a plethora of player choices to help ensure that the final chapter reflects the decisions made by the player. If the game refuses to acknowledge any of these choices, it takes away from a player’s sense of agency."

"Their control over the world feels diminished. This is true for all stages of a game, but it can be felt even more intensely in the final moments.”
Walters also values the idea that if a story offers choice as part of its overall make-up, its ending should also do so right down to the final moments: “Players want to be able to end their individual experiences in their own way."

"Obviously, every option isn’t available, but if we tried, most of us could come with at least one or two plausible and exciting versions to the ends of their favourite movies.”

Lastly, he believes that it’s about satisfaction with what’s actually happening to the characters in the dying throes of the experience: “It’s important that players feel as though the time and effort they spent ‘beating’ the game is recognised."

"While a high score can achieve this well enough, more sophisticated, narrative-based games need to have rewards and benefits tied to the narrative. A simple acknowledgement by an important character can suffice, or the game itself can chronicle the deeds of the main character.”

As endings in certain high-profile games become tethered to interactivity and don’t necessarily punish the player with rock-hard boss fights, their emotional impact is heightened. It can be simple, but effective – a stretch of gameplay amid cut-scenes, a choice to be made or even a QTE.

"You're going to miss this arse!" - Don't worry Chloe, you'll be back...

Hell, Mass Effect 2 let players choose which of their characters were useful for certain dangerous tasks within the story’s final suicide mission, something that can easily lead to their deaths without a good deal of careful management.

So, it’s an area in which developers are creatively improving all the time, even if so many of them are still getting it wrong. Pagliarulo believes that there’s been a shift towards borrowing ideas from more popular forms of storytelling entertainment in order to hone the idea of capping off a game properly.

“I think it really depends on the game, and what it’s trying to achieve. But I’ll tell you, I think game narratives are getting much savvier in their resolutions, much closer to film or literature endings."

“I think game stories are now at the ‘plot twist’ stage of evolution. Not every great work of fiction, be it film or literature, needs a plot twist, and sometimes putting your entire fictional focus on a twist can end in disaster.” Think every project directed by M Night Shyamalan.

“But when a plot twist pays off, it’s so incredibly memorable. So it seems game writers are trying to do more of that stuff. I think it started with Knights Of The Old Republic, and the jaw-dropping plot twist in that game, and how it was presented so cinematically."

"That got a lot of game writers to sort of re-evaluate what their fiction could accomplish. So of course now you’ve got games like Heavy Rain, where the ending is like a plot twist on steroids, determined by the player’s actions throughout the game.”

Heavy Rain’s method of ending is somewhat similar to that of Fallout 3 and Mass Effect 2, at least in being a summation of the player’s relationship with the game to that point, but the difference is that the entire plot of Heavy Rain can be completely shifted by the events of the ending – huge spoilers abound, here, for anyone who wants to sample the delights of the hit PS3 interactive movie.

The plot surrounds a father whose child has been kidnapped by a serial killer; by the end, depending on many of your decisions made in key moments throughout the game, the story will transform.

The father can save the child, the father can let the child die and then proceed to commit suicide, the serial killer can get away with it, the serial killer can die, the serial killer can be arrested, one of your characters can go completely insane in a number of different ways – because there are at least 20 endings in Heavy Rain, its ability to map itself to your experiences is quite remarkable. Whatever ending you get feels like your ending. There’s a crucial sense of ownership there.

Heavy Rain was a game driven by its climatic ending, and paid off well.

Still, one thing bothers us about the construction of these flexible endings is that they’re essentially jigsaws made out of fragmented bits of cut-scenes, later pieced together in response to your actions. We ask Pagliarulo if, with this in mind, it’s difficult to remain tonally consistent across all possible combinations of ending.

“It’s funny, because we thought we had handled it well. We felt pretty happy with the fact that there are, when you look at it mathematically, thousands upon thousands of combinations of the ending. But really, they’re little changes."

"So no, it wasn’t that difficult, because we planned for it early on. But in retrospect, I think players would have appreciated us tracking some bigger, more specific moments, like how you affected certain settlements, or completed certain quests.”

Heavy Rain, then, is a red herring in reflecting all possible outcomes, and since the game is purely narrative-driven, it’s not a surprise the developer, Quantic Dream, invested so much time in getting this aspect of the game right.

That’s not to say constructing an effective denouement is any easier for other developers, however. For Bethesda and Pagliarulo, circumstances and fan reaction ensured that they’d have to produce two entirely different endings: “When we came up with the original ending, we were really happy with it."

"We were really interested in closing our story, and that seemed like the most logical way. Our thinking was that, hey, 95 per cent of games don’t let the player continue once it’s over, so why should Fallout 3? So we really approached it more from a story perspective."

"There’s a big set piece battle with Liberty Prime marching to the water purifier, and then the final confrontation with Colonel Autumn, to sort of resolve that whole thing, but none of it is really any harder that the rest of the game. It wasn’t a boss battle. It was just meant to be a logical and natural end to the story.”

Borderlands anti-climatic ending was its biggest disappointment.

Still, we live in the DLC age where developers can respond to fan criticism within mere months, and that changed everything for Bethesda: “Once fan reaction started rolling in, we realised that the ending players really wanted is the one where the game doesn’t end at all."

"In a giant, open-world game, like the kind Bethesda specialises in, the sort of ‘non-ending’ is actually more preferable. So with the Broken Steel DLC, we effectively changed the fiction to support the gameplay."

"We did a bit of a retcon, which normally you try to avoid at all costs because it can weaken your fiction. But in this case, that was entirely the point – we cared too much about the fiction, and not enough about the player’s experience. So we rectified that, and learned a lot from doing so.”

Fallout 3 is remarkable in that it shows the importance of matching an ending appropriately to the game’s genre, viewing it as key to player’s satisfaction, even if it comes at the expense of story.

That’s where the original BioShock fell down: while the final battle with an ADAM-mutated Fontaine would have made sense in many other games, it was particularly mismatched to an intelligent, story-driven FPS supported by inventive environmental design and complex gameplay systems. It didn’t capitalise on nearly enough of what were clearly the game’s merits, even though it was 100 per cent correct in terms of storytelling sensibilities.

Walters is proud of the way BioWare has handled endings to its various RPGs. “The first real ending I was actively involved in creating was Jade Empire’s,” he says. “I think we achieved several successful endings, including the unexpected – and my personal favourite – ‘agree with the main villain and hand it all over’ version."

"Mass Effect was a bit trickier because we had a matrix of endings to contend with, and variations within that matrix. The key element to the different endings was the decision of whether or not to save the Citadel Council, but that decision was influenced by your Paragon and Renegade scores.” These opposing moral counters unlock options that can completely change the direction of the narrative.

“You could also choose to kill Saren in combat, or convince him to kill himself,” Walters continues. “And then you had to choose between Anderson and Udina for a crucial leadership position. Overall, I think we achieved a very satisfying ending, regardless of which path you chose to get there.”

For BioWare, though, it was building a franchise with Mass Effect, meaning that there’s not just one ending to consider – there was the second game and, finally, the end of the franchise to consider: “With Mass Effect 2, all I can say is that the sheer complexity of the endings was enough to send a few developers over the edge on a several occasions.

Bethesda claimed there were over 50 endings for Fallout 3, which wasn't entirely true.

Going forward, we’ll continue to perfect our craft as storytellers – and story-enders. Even now we’re beginning work on BioWare’s first end to a trilogy, and we’ll need to take everything we’ve learned and apply it.”

Mass Effect 3’s ending will have to deal with more variables than perhaps any other game ever made, but it’s a challenge the BioWare team relishes. “In some ways, much of Mass Effect 3 needs to fulfil the same expectations as a single game ending: resolving conflicts, tying up loose ends, fulfilling player expectations,” Walters says.

“And the choices! Everything you’ve done up until the beginning of Mass Effect 3 and throughout the game will impact the story. Its ending may just be the most diverse ending ever.”

Interestingly, however, we saw that Mass Effect 2 did end with a boss battle, of sorts, against a giant Terminator-esque creature, in spite of its other braver ideas. What’s telling is how that’s the hardest part of the ending to be emotionally invested in – much more fascinating is watching what eventually happens to the diverse cast of characters, all of whom have spent the last 30 hours surrounding you in battle.

We don’t universally fault the idea of a final boss, however. For many players, this is still the number one satisfying way for a game to end, which means developers do little wrong in pandering to this audience.

As we’ve ascertained from talking to two of the developers looking to break from traditional design mentality, though, the potential is there for something altogether more provocative, contextual and personalised, almost certainly a better alternative to repeating an attack pattern until the last pixels of a health bar disappear for good.

Modifié par Troxa, 28 décembre 2013 - 05:27 .

[dreamgazer]

Care to TL;DR the portion of that article that you want us to read?

[Mr.House]

crimzontearz wrote...

Damn google I knew I copied the wrong freaking article's link, I meant to post the "you do not need answers" interview...crap

Uh huh.

[crimzontearz]

Oh can it, house.

[Mr.House]

crimzontearz wrote...

Oh can it, house.

I haven't had my coffee yet.