1814 réponses à ce sujet

[Mangalores]

chris2365 wrote...

 Don't know if this has been posted, but here is a quote from Mac during the 2013 New York Comic-Con: 
http://www.complexma...er-white-moment

Complex: What are your thoughts on all the people who complained about the third game’s ending?

Mac Walter: It’s been 18-19 months since it came out and my thoughts on it are that we addressed it the best we could in the extended cut. We’re obviously not going to be changing anything now. We’re only going forward. But you know what’s interesting? The only view I’ve had on it was, well, I was watching Breaking Bad, and that deals with (spoiler alert) the main character dying. And in no way do I think that anybody was surprised that he died. It was set up, even from the get-go, that this was a character that was going to die. But the interesting difference there is that that’s not a character that people had control of. They didn’t have any say at any point at what would happen to Walter White. Period.

And I think that’s one of the things we really underestimated, which was how much ownership people would take over a character that they could do that. You know, you’ve been given free choice to make all these decisions with this character, with the fates of millions of people, and then, you don’t get to choose your own fate. And I’m not saying that our decision was wrong or right. I think we just underestimated the impact that would have on certain players. To be fair, I get people, especially at the Cons, who will say, “I loved it. It was heart-wrenching, but I felt it was right for my Shepard.” And to me, that’s why it was the right path. But because there was no choice, it was going to be right for some people, and for others, in the middle, and other people were obviously very upset about it. In hindsight, I don’t think there was anything we would have changed about that, but it is a really good lesson learned.

Reading over the bolded parts (my own emphasis), it seems they still haven't adressed the fact that the theme of the ending was bothersome to some fans. Most wouldn't mind if they had to do a sacrifice, but it was the context (Catalyst and all) that was annoying to most.

They say they learned their lesson, but wouldn't change anything in hindsight. I just hope the lesson learned was the right one moving forward. I guess we'll know in due time.

I generally get the feeling they mainly computed that killing the protagonist is bad, not that the ending is bad. I am a staunch believer in the later as I already made clear.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

@iakus: Beats me. You're one of the guys who freaked out, so you have a better understanding of the phenomenon than I do. Bio's never struck me as being committed to the kind of narrative freedom that you say you want for your PC, so I don't know why you guys never collided before. 

Perhaps because Bioware's endings never forced the protagonist to be a complete monster before?

Still, DA:O starts treading that line pretty darn close, with the potential implications behind the Dark Ritual. Of course, the other option is to sacrifice the player or Alistair. Or Loghain, who does provide a convenient out in that scenario in terms of being more tempting to sacrifice.

[ruggly]

JamesFaith wrote...

ruggly wrote...

I haven't heard anything about a new Star Wars IP from Bioware. Last thing they did Star Wars related was release an expansion for SWTOR.

Few months ago EA announced that they are preparing 3 games from Star Wars universe and mentioned BW with Visceral Games and DICE.

Ah, well cool then.

[Iakus]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

@iakus: Beats me. You're one of the guys who freaked out, so you have a better understanding of the phenomenon than I do. Bio's never struck me as being committed to the kind of narrative freedom that you say you want for your PC, so I don't know why you guys never collided before. 

Perhaps because Bioware's endings never forced the protagonist to be a complete monster before?

Still, DA:O starts treading that line pretty darn close, with the potential implications behind the Dark Ritual. Of course, the other option is to sacrifice the player or Alistair. Or Loghain, who does provide a convenient out in that scenario in terms of being more tempting to sacrifice.

It may come close to the line, but it didn't cross it.   It didn't offer such insane options as

Kill all demons, but you slaughter all the elves as well.
Die, but give your memories to a pride demon so it can rule Thedas
Force everyone on Thedas to submit to the Qun.  Oh, and become abominations to help overcome physical limitations.

in DAO, the person being sacrificed is well aware of what is being asked of them, and does so of their own free will.  Whether it's the Warden, Alistair, or Loghain.  HEck even Morrigan tells you what the Dark Ritual will entail.

[AlanC9]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Still, DA:O starts treading that line pretty darn close, with the potential implications behind the Dark Ritual. Of course, the other option is to sacrifice the player or Alistair. Or Loghain, who does provide a convenient out in that scenario in terms of being more tempting to sacrifice.

I'm on record as supporting the DR being both canon and leading to a horrible disaster. Regrettably, Bio went a different way.

[Invisible Man]

I don't really have anything against killing off the protagonist if it's done right, and not simply because a cheap dramatic death adds cheap drama to the story. and killing the protagonist seems to have become more common place, both in the past & now currently, imho. my main issue is with the lack of quality in mass effect's final ending itself.

Modifié par Invisible Man, 31 décembre 2013 - 02:54 .

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Still, DA:O starts treading that line pretty darn close, with the potential implications behind the Dark Ritual. Of course, the other option is to sacrifice the player or Alistair. Or Loghain, who does provide a convenient out in that scenario in terms of being more tempting to sacrifice.

I'm on record as supporting the DR being both canon and leading to a horrible disaster. Regrettably, Bio went a different way.

If Dragon Age hadn't gone with an import system, I could have accepted that.  The Dark Ritual isn't my favorite outcome, but it doesn't kill the game for me, like RGB.

[Iakus]

Invisible Man wrote...

I don't really have anything against killing off the protagonist if it's done right, and not simply because a cheap dramatic death adds cheap drama to the story. and killing the protagonist seems to have become more common place, both in the past & now currently, imho. my main issue is with the lack of quality in mass effect's final ending itself.

In games that celebrate player choice, I've seen the inevitable death of the protagonist handled well exactly twice.  And in one case it's shown that this may not have been the end of the story (a whole lot better than the breath scene too)

If you're going to say "your choices matter" and then burn the player character, you better be 110% certain of your writing.  There is zero room for error.  Basically if there's any doubt, jsut don't do it.

Modifié par iakus, 31 décembre 2013 - 04:32 .

[durasteel]

AlanC9 wrote...
Remember, in the Dark Energy plot the Reapers were the good guys all along, just doing their best to save the universe. Although I suppose it was going to end with one of those fake Bio choices where the bad consequences don't actually happen.

I don't think it's fair to compare the starting outline of the dark energy plot to the finished (and then extended) haywire reaper god AI plot in the actual game.  One must assume that the dark energy plot would have been refined a great deal during development. 

In my opinion, the end of ME3 was the worst writing I've seen in a BioWare game.  Something caused it to deviate from the norm, and I can only hope that the something in question has been correctly identified by studio pros and will be avoided and prevented in the future. 

[AlanC9]

durasteel wrote...

I don't think it's fair to compare the starting outline of the dark energy plot to the finished (and then extended) haywire reaper god AI plot in the actual game.  One must assume that the dark energy plot would have been refined a great deal during development. 

Why must one assume that? And "refined" how, exactly? Either the Reapers have a beneficial purpose, or they do not.

[Armass81]

Its been almost 2 years, how many times have we had this conversation about the endings? How many times have we trodden the same paths?

Will it ever end?

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
I'm on record as supporting the DR being both canon and leading to a horrible disaster. Regrettably, Bio went a different way.

If Dragon Age hadn't gone with an import system, I could have accepted that.  The Dark Ritual isn't my favorite outcome, but it doesn't kill the game for me, like RGB.

I didn't want an import system either. Though I'd have no personal problem with only some subset of saves being eligible for importing, I can see how this might be unfair to the majority of players since they don't replay.

[CrutchCricket]

Armass81 wrote...

Its been almost 2 years, how many times have we had this conversation about the endings? How many times have we trodden the same paths?

Will it ever end?

Nope.

In the end, we have no choice in our paths.

Pick the color of your response (which affects precisely dick) or refuse to comment.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 31 décembre 2013 - 04:44 .

[dreamgazer]

Armass81 wrote...

Its been almost 2 years, how many times have we had this conversation about the endings? How many times have we trodden the same paths?

Will it ever end?

I hope not!

[spirosz]

dreamgazer wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

Its been almost 2 years, how many times have we had this conversation about the endings? How many times have we trodden the same paths?

Will it ever end?

I hope so!

[dreamgazer]

spirosz wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

Its been almost 2 years, how many times have we had this conversation about the endings? How many times have we trodden the same paths?

Will it ever end?

I hope not!

[Iakus]

Armass81 wrote...

Its been almost 2 years, how many times have we had this conversation about the endings? How many times have we trodden the same paths?

Will it ever end?

Depends on whether Bioware intends to go back to making entertaining games, or continue making games that are more fun to complain about than play.

[spirosz]

J. Reezy wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

spirosz wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

Its been almost 2 years, how many times have we had this conversation about the endings? How many times have we trodden the same paths?

Will it ever end?

I hope not!

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...


Depends on whether Bioware intends to go back to making entertaining games, or continue making games that are more fun to complain about than play.

Oh, please.

[Invisible Man]

honestly I think this will only end when bioware starts locking threads that incessantly chat about the endings, but I don't see that happening any time soon. seeing as this is likely what bioware wants. also honestly I like a good discussion, even if we've already hashed out the content, even many, many times over.

Modifié par Invisible Man, 31 décembre 2013 - 05:03 .

[CrutchCricket]

He's got a point. I haven't timed it, but I think the time I've raged about the ending on here overtook the time I spent playing ME3 singleplayer long ago. And I'm not even the most vocal.

On the other hand, can't say it's been fun though...

[dreamgazer]

spirosz wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

spirosz wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

Its been almost 2 years, how many times have we had this conversation about the endings? How many times have we trodden the same paths?

Will it ever end?

I hope not!

[Invisible Man]

if we want to avoid this discussion, I think our only option is to go into cyro-sleep for 50,000 years or so.

---edit
unless mass effect becomes a timeless epic, and is discussed by classes in university or lectured upon by people with letters following their names.

Modifié par Invisible Man, 31 décembre 2013 - 05:12 .