1814 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

rapscallioness wrote...

I would have preferred of the Crucible had simply helped us attain a conventional victory. Weaken the Reapers to such an extent that we could then go in and curb stomp them.

I prefer to do the curb stomping. Or, at least watch the war assets I gathered do their own curb stomping.

As it was, the Crucible stole my kill.

The problem with that scenario is whether the Reapers would be prepared for that and just jump away to regroup. 

You'd have to weaken and disorient them in a very specific way to earn that curb-stomping. 

[CronoDragoon]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

The Crucible is more like an OP weapon in rapscallions scenario.

Right. So I don't see the difference. I mean I see the obvious difference in wiping them out totally and wiping them out piecemeal, but the weapon is still the reason you win, not strategy or "willpower."

rapscallioness wrote...
No, I don't see that. The Crucible did everything.

Other than literally everything that came before in ME3 you mean? Did the Crucible dock itself?

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 18 décembre 2013 - 08:06 .

[CrutchCricket]

dreamgazer wrote...
The problem with that scenario is whether the Reapers would be prepared for that and just jump away to regroup. 

You'd have to weaken and disorient them in a very specific way to earn that curb-stomping. 

Crucible acts as Interdictor, simulating planetary mass and preventing lightspeed.

Rather surprised no one's reasearched that tech in ME yet.

[rapscallioness]

dreamgazer wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

I would have preferred of the Crucible had simply helped us attain a conventional victory. Weaken the Reapers to such an extent that we could then go in and curb stomp them.

I prefer to do the curb stomping. Or, at least watch the war assets I gathered do their own curb stomping.

As it was, the Crucible stole my kill.

The problem with that scenario is whether the Reapers would be prepared for that and just jump away to regroup. 

You'd have to weaken and disorient them in a very specific way to earn that curb-stomping. 

That would have been nice.

It actually just seemed too easy to defeat the Reapers with the Crucible. When it came down to it, it wasn't much of a challenge.

[rapscallioness]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

The Crucible is more like an OP weapon in rapscallions scenario.

Right. So I don't see the difference. I mean I see the obvious difference in wiping them out totally and wiping them out piecemeal, but the weapon is still the reason you win, not strategy or "willpower."

I see what you mean, good point.

The Crucible is a weapon like my Mattock is a weapon, but in the end you would still need strategy and will power. Which is what I would have preferred after the Crucible weakened (and disoriented) them to such an extent I could implement some kind of strategy.

[dreamgazer]

CrutchCricket wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...
The problem with that scenario is whether the Reapers would be prepared for that and just jump away to regroup. 

You'd have to weaken and disorient them in a very specific way to earn that curb-stomping. 

Crucible acts as Interdictor, simulating planetary mass and preventing lightspeed.

Rather surprised no one's reasearched that tech in ME yet.

And we're assuming that the Reapers wouldn't be able to counteract this, given that they designed the relays themselves?  The Crucible acts instantaneously as is; this would not. 

[CrutchCricket]

dreamgazer wrote...

And we're assuming that the Reapers wouldn't be able to counteract this, given that they designed the relays themselves?  The Crucible acts instantaneously as is; this would not. 

Counteract what? This has nothing to do with the relays.

You can't safely jump to lightspeed if you're near a planetary mass. Unless the Reapers can override this feature within themselve's they'd be stuck just like any other ship. And I'm assuming there's a reason you can't just override this and it would involve smashing into things at the speed of light.

[dreamgazer]

CrutchCricket wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

And we're assuming that the Reapers wouldn't be able to counteract this, given that they designed the relays themselves?  The Crucible acts instantaneously as is; this would not. 

Counteract what? This has nothing to do with the relays.

Then how will this affect all Reapers?

[rapscallioness]

lol! Yeah. But still the way I see it could have been done is very simply: the Crucible instantaneously zaps them; weakens; and then your war assets kick in and kick butt.

It also would have made the gathering of all these war assets more relevant. As it is, I don't feel like I really needed all these war assets. All I ever needed was the Crucible. (Except for the EMS statistics).

It's fiction, they couyld have come up with something that was more than flipping a switch, and was as plausible as one beam getting destroy/control/synthesis.

I wish they had. I don't feel like I earned my victory. I feel more like it was handed to me.

[rapscallioness]

Ah, well. What's done is done. Right?

[CrutchCricket]

dreamgazer wrote...
Then how will this affect all Reapers?

How are they going to retreat if they can't jump to lightspeed?

[wright1978]

I accept the crucible as a contrivance device as a means of short cutting to victory. However i feel that if it was ever to do anything other than blow up reapers that should have been a choice during the construction phrase as various blueprints emerge & any negative consequences equally should have been built in as balancing choice checks at the same time.

[Armass81]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Armass81 wrote...
So do you think that ME should be just small character stories in a static universe?

I think what Street is getting at is that there's a middle ground between Reapers and a game filled with nothing but loyalty missions. Imagine a Collector plot without the Reapers lurking behind them. That's still a worthy main adversary to a stand-alone ME game. You're still saving hundreds of thousands of lives.

Yes it is. Its good for a game set in ME universe. The problem was that the game in question was MASS EFFECT 2. The middle parter of the trilogy in a story about the reapers. And it didnt really advance the plot, or it did it so poorly they had to conjure up a super weapon just so we had some convoluted way to beat a legion of nearly invincible death machines in the end.
 

Modifié par Armass81, 18 décembre 2013 - 08:44 .

[rapscallioness]

Tbh, I really believe they thought we would appreciate something out of the ordinary. A different approach.

And while yes, I do like the concept and the different perspective w/the Catalyst and all that. I would have liked a bit of both. The philosophical and the good old fashioned kick to the gonads.

So, I don't want them to think that all I want was 'Splosions. You know? I just would have liked a lil more meat to go w/my salad.

[dreamgazer]

CrutchCricket wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...
Then how will this affect all Reapers?

How are they going to retreat if they can't jump to lightspeed?

I get that part of your scenario, but I don't understand your method of application.

How is this getting to all Reapers without using the relays they designed?

[TigusVidiks]

KaiserShep wrote...

TigusVidiks wrote...
Not even going into the fact that they humanized all the alien species, striping them of their own cultures and streamlining them with human culture. I mean, Turians soldiers saluting? really?

I can't say that this is a reasonable complaint, since the turians, from the very beginning, were based largely on the Romans. By this logic, just about every species out there is "stripped" of anything that makes them sufficiently alien by having them share similar mannerisms as a human being, like shaking hands, nodding their heads, use of certain slang terms, etc.. In truth, making them as alien as alien could be would make them unapproachable to the player. 

There's a difference. You can make an analogy when writing a story, with political and sociological similaries to human history, even when not aplied to human subjects.  That is different of making the cultural marks the same. 
The romans didn't salute as human modern armies do, extending their arm in a 22º angle and taking their stretched hand into their forehead.  That is a gesture, among the most cultural specific things you can have. It's beyond anyone's imagination that you would actually find an alien race that used the same gesture as military salute.
Shaking hands is a compliment, that can be learned as a form of respect towards others. A military salute is an institutionalized and binding gesture, part of military protocol. - again, too cultural specific.
In ME1 Salarians and Turians were shown with enough care that you never saw this streamlined humanization.  You would find them talking to each other near the C-sec corridors and they would talk, you would understand their conversation, but they alwasy felt alien, even in their dialogues. That vanished completely.

Edit:
In fact, not even all human armies do, its more specific to ocidental armies.

Modifié par TigusVidiks, 18 décembre 2013 - 08:54 .

[Armass81]

KaiserShep wrote...

TigusVidiks wrote...
Not even going into the fact that they humanized all the alien species, striping them of their own cultures and streamlining them with human culture. I mean, Turians soldiers saluting? really?

I can't say that this is a reasonable complaint, since the turians, from the very beginning, were based largely on the Romans. By this logic, just about every species out there is "stripped" of anything that makes them sufficiently alien by having them share similar mannerisms as a human being, like shaking hands, nodding their heads, use of certain slang terms, etc.. In truth, making them as alien as alien could be would make them unapproachable to the player. 

This is the reason IMO why mix of alien tropes works best. Too alien and you push the audience away(unless alien interaction is not required in the story), too familiar and it becomes Star Trek rubber head terratory, which at least to me is ridiculous. Have both, Rubber heads and Starfish aliens in douses and some intelligent gerbils and it becomes a balanced setting.

Modifié par Armass81, 18 décembre 2013 - 08:52 .

[wright1978]

Armass81 wrote...

Yes it is. Its good for a game set in ME universe. The problem was that the game in question was MASS EFFECT 2. The middle parter of the trilogy in a story about the reapers. And it didnt really advance the plot, or it did it so poorly they had to conjure up a super weapon just so we had some convoluted way to beat a legion of nearly invincible death machines in the end.
 

Disagree ME2 did a great job as a middle chapter, expanding upon some of the key arcs during the breathing space pre harvest(Geth, Genophage/Turians, Quarians) whilst introducing the Reaper servants trying to get a head start for their masters. Without ME2 Tuchanka and Rannoch arcs wouldn't make half as much sense. I think reaper invincibility was a problem introduced in ME1 & hence the need for a superweapon to dispose of them in 3.

[Armass81]

wright1978 wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

Yes it is. Its good for a game set in ME universe. The problem was that the game in question was MASS EFFECT 2. The middle parter of the trilogy in a story about the reapers. And it didnt really advance the plot, or it did it so poorly they had to conjure up a super weapon just so we had some convoluted way to beat a legion of nearly invincible death machines in the end.
 

Disagree ME2 did a great job as a middle chapter, expanding upon some of the key arcs during the breathing space pre harvest(Geth, Genophage/Turians, Quarians) whilst introducing the Reaper servants trying to get a head start for their masters. Without ME2 Tuchanka and Rannoch arcs wouldn't make half as much sense. I think reaper invincibility was a problem introduced in ME1 & hence the need for a superweapon to dispose of them in 3.

As a standalone game I agree its a decent game, tough it could be  better especially the collector part of the plot and the last boss. As a middle parter of the trilogy it failed in its job of advancing the reaper problem plot tough and screwed with many other things too which were set up in ME1, like choices. The DLCs did more than the main game in that regard.

Oh and introducing plethora of new characters and have them be killable in suicide mission. Not too smart, especially since it was that some people, unrealistically, wanted many of them back as squaddies in the next game. Was not going to happen, unless Bioware had 2 -3 more years to develop.

In retrospect, if they were going to iclude the collector plot as it was, they should have done a ME quadrilogy or kvintology, not trilogy.

Modifié par Armass81, 18 décembre 2013 - 09:14 .

[wright1978]

Armass81 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Disagree ME2 did a great job as a middle chapter, expanding upon some of the key arcs during the breathing space pre harvest(Geth, Genophage/Turians, Quarians) whilst introducing the Reaper servants trying to get a head start for their masters. Without ME2 Tuchanka and Rannoch arcs wouldn't make half as much sense. I think reaper invincibility was a problem introduced in ME1 & hence the need for a superweapon to dispose of them in 3.

As a standalone game I agree its a decent game, tough it could be  better especially the collector part of the plot and the last boss. As a middle parter of the trilogy it failed in its job of advancing the reaper problem plot tough and screwed with many other things too which were set up in ME1, like choices. The DLCs did more than the main game in that regard.

Oh and introducing plethora of new characters and have them be killable in suicide mission. Not too smart, especially since it was that some people, unrealistically, wanted many of them back as squaddies in the next game. Was not going to happen, unless Bioware had 2 -3 more years to develop.

In retrospect, if they were going to iclude the collector plot as it was, they should have done a ME quadrilogy or kvintology, not trilogy.

I have to disagree as ME1 is so focused on the immediate threat that it has no time to flesh out the things it reveals. So having a game before  the full out invasion was very necessary imo. Getting to understand the migrant fleet, develop the geth as more than a one note  villain, develop cerberus as more than a one note villain, explore the genophage etc these all helped immensely.

I'll agree that ME3 had to many squaddies. I'll also agree that they maybe should have expanded it to a quadrilogy once they realised that the story could have done with the additional breathing room.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Maybe next time Bioware should PLAN AHEAD

Words of wisdom.

I fail to see what planning ahead would do to fix glaring issues such as autodialogue, crappy emotional railroading, and comic book writing

Which game had the comic book writing again?

Was it the one with: "You're just a machine, and machines can be broken?"

Comic book:

"I am Omega!"

"Do you remember the old days when we could slap omni-gel on everything?"

"You are not Saren!" (no s*** Sherlock.)

"Tell your friends we're coming for them. Never mind. I'll tell them myself."


Worse:

"You mean Asari can reproduce with their own race?"

"No light! They said there would be a light."

[Bourne Endeavor]

StreetMagic wrote...

ME2 didn't get to the core issues because they knew it was trouble even back then. Hold it off as long as possible. It was a good policy. The core issues suck. Mass Effect is like a beast eating itself, starting at the tail. It's plot destroys it's own world and setting. It works against itself. Best to stave it off and enjoy the world as much as possible.

I believe this could have been avoided had BioWare attempted to bridge the trilogy together better. For instance, if we found out about the Crucible in ME2 and the Arrival plotline was at the forefront, it could very well have worked to foreshadow ME3 instead of seemingly being at odds with it. Another angle I thought might suffice was for Cerberus to maintain their ambiguity. Perhaps with the Council stonewalling you again, TIM's attempt to cease control via Udina is less about "Derperus motives" and him actually trying to help, just in an extreme manner.

Whether indoctrination comes into play is another possibility, and while the aforementioned is hinted at. BioWare too easily deviated from any narrative justification so they could rush back into "shooty bits." I'd argue that was their greatest flaw as the series progressed: an assumption people would be bored if they couldn't shoot something very five minutes.

Alas, we likely have EA to thank for that.