1814 réponses à ce sujet

[SlottsMachine]

I'm frustrated that this thread is still open. I have failed.

[txgoldrush]

J. Reezy wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

The problem with ME3 bashers and anti enders is that they do not criticize based on what ME3 is, but they criticize based on what they want it to be, grossly ignoring the many aspects that define what ME3 is.

>Implying you know more about what Mass Effect 3 is compared to the people you're criticizing

Nope

See, now you're learning. Humility isn't THAT hard.

Its "yep", I do know more about ME3, but that's only because I pay attention.

Its funny how posters with hundreds of posts here miss the point entirely.

Criticizing criticizers for missing the point is fair game. You may not like it but it is what it is.

[txgoldrush]

StreetMagic wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...


No, Renegade Shepard can champion Victus's sacrifice. I have had that happen without Garrus. Here I sanother example.

Good catch. I vaguely remember that being there. I'm glad there are distinct options here. I don't think that scene works the same with Garrus though. Like there's more autodialogue (don't hold me to that .. I haven't played with Garrus in awhile).

General rule...Renegade Shepard is more willing to accept other peoples sacrifice than a Paragon would, although a Paragon still realizes sacrifice is necessary.

Like Mordin, if a Renegade Shepard allows him to cure the genophage, instead of "don't go" (Paragon), he would say "good work".

[Iakus]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

The Chris l'Etoile postings a bit old, but they contain pretty relevent information:

http://www.holdtheli...e-reapers.4229/

Very very interesting.

[Stalker]

Well, it seems to me that many at BioWare don't really care that much about artistic vision and quality of their products anyway. Sure they are a large company that consists of many more or less ambitious people with variable skill, but it's a fact that the core of BioWare was ripped apart and replaced. Something like that rarely ends positive, especially not under the EA banner.

And regarding the OP: there is no lesson to learn. They made a ****-ton of money and those who stayed obviously agreed with the way ME3 was handled. As you said, they even defended it.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 03 janvier 2014 - 10:39 .

[TheRealJayDee]

iakus wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

The Chris l'Etoile postings a bit old, but they contain pretty relevent information:

http://www.holdtheli...e-reapers.4229/

Very very interesting.

Indeed.

But Higher Paid decided that it would be cooler if

 

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 03 janvier 2014 - 11:18 .

[CronoDragoon]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Samara's appearance in ME3 was sufficient in that it further developed her character. It's exactly what I said, limited but well spent. However I'm sure that if you ask any of her fans, they would want more, more interaction, more involvement, squad status etc. I sure do. But since you ask here are the characters, other than Miranda I think got the shaft the hardest:
Morinth
Kasumi
Thane
Jacob

Morinth I agree with, still limiting it to a mission at most, though. Kasumi? Someone you say finished her character arc and moreover was DLC? Exactly what did she still have to bring to the story outside of her fans simply wanting more? No, a minor mission is enough for her I think. For Thane and Jacob, I'd argue their issue isn't screentime but what the writers did with said screentime. Jacob is a waste of time from the moment they introduce him. He could have served as the character who calls out the Alliance on hypocritical bull**** with his background as a corsair. Instead his father goes nuts and he knocks up a scientist. I don't have a problem with Thane's sacrifice but romancers of course disagree.

As is every other quarian, except maybe for Xen.

No, actually. She's the only character except maybe Raan who actually changes her opinion about the geth, and since she's a more prominent character than Raan what I said stands. Koris is at the other extreme from Xen, and Gherrel doesn't really care one way or another as long as he gets Rannoch back. She's the only one who's opinion of the geth as a race demonstrably changes from her interactions with them.

Oh please. For a full breakdown of why the VS is the most unremarkable special soldier ever I direct you to MassivelyEffective. Suffice to say that nothing they've done on their own really stands out for Spectre candidacy and once you take Udina's machinations into consideration, the cheap political maneuvering becomes obvious.

Good point about Udina, but I fail to see how the VS is less worthy of screentime than Jacob in terms of "soldier worthiness" or whatever.

Fairness? Why should the ME1 squad be held so highly while the ME2 squad is basically ignored? Even if my favorites weren't in that second category I would still be bothered by the atitude "oh you didn't like who you were supposed to? tough ****". And then when the DLC that's supposed to fix this comes along and does the exact same ****, well, then you get a little pissed.

What DLC? Citadel? I think you're in the minority of ME2 fans pissed about their treatment in Citadel, although they goofed when their initial PR release seemed to state that you could do the whole DLC with them.

The ME1 squad is held highly and the ME2 one entertains diminished roles because the ME2 characters each have their own story that's completed at the end of the loyalty mission. Any appearance in ME3 is basically fan service at that point. Contrast this to the ME1 squad, who for the most part are either tied to the Reaper plot or to a major series arc that comes to a conclusion in ME3. The VS becomes tied to the Cerberus conflict by the middle of ME2. Tali = Rannoch. Liara is tied to both the Reapers and the Protheans, which becomes especially meaningful when Javik the Great and Mighty enters the fray in ME3. By this logic Wrex should have been a squadmate in ME3, which I still kinda agree with.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 04 janvier 2014 - 12:20 .

[Linkenski]

General Slotts wrote...

I'm frustrated that this thread is still open. I have failed.

Wow, tell me about it, my astonishing topic has been taken over by other BSN generic ME3 subjects now.

[Iakus]

CronoDragoon wrote...

What DLC? Citadel? I think you're in the minority of ME2 fans pissed about their treatment in Citadel, although they goofed when their initial PR release seemed to state that you could do the whole DLC with them.

The ME1 squad is held highly and the ME2 one entertains diminished roles because the ME2 characters each have their own story that's completed at the end of the loyalty mission. Any appearance in ME3 is basically fan service at that point. Contrast this to the ME1 squad, who for the most part are either tied to the Reaper plot or to a major series arc that comes to a conclusion in ME3. The VS becomes tied to the Cerberus conflict by the middle of ME2. Tali = Rannoch. Liara is tied to both the Reapers and the Protheans, which becomes especially meaningful when Javik the Great and Mighty enters the fray in ME3. By this logic Wrex should have been a squadmate in ME3, which I still kinda agree with.

Not to mention that except for Liara and Garrus, the ME1 team doesn't get get much better treatment than the ME2 team.

Sure, the ME2 team got it worse, but that doesn't make what the ME1 team got good. 

[txgoldrush]

iakus wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

What DLC? Citadel? I think you're in the minority of ME2 fans pissed about their treatment in Citadel, although they goofed when their initial PR release seemed to state that you could do the whole DLC with them.

The ME1 squad is held highly and the ME2 one entertains diminished roles because the ME2 characters each have their own story that's completed at the end of the loyalty mission. Any appearance in ME3 is basically fan service at that point. Contrast this to the ME1 squad, who for the most part are either tied to the Reaper plot or to a major series arc that comes to a conclusion in ME3. The VS becomes tied to the Cerberus conflict by the middle of ME2. Tali = Rannoch. Liara is tied to both the Reapers and the Protheans, which becomes especially meaningful when Javik the Great and Mighty enters the fray in ME3. By this logic Wrex should have been a squadmate in ME3, which I still kinda agree with.

Not to mention that except for Liara and Garrus, the ME1 team doesn't get get much better treatment than the ME2 team.

Sure, the ME2 team got it worse, but that doesn't make what the ME1 team got good. 

Tali has a whole plot arc where she is required for two major missions and highly recommended for two more. She got great treatment.

Wrex has an entire well received arc too.

Ashley got great treatment in the first half, but Kaiden steals the show in the second half with some of the best conversations in the series being with him.

Nevermind that in ME3, the party members actually talk to each other consistently. You cannot say this about ME1 and ME2.

[Iakus]

txgoldrush wrote...

Tali has a whole plot arc where she is required for two major missions and highly recommended for two more. She got great treatment.

No, Rannoch got great treatment (well, depending on how you view the geth aspect)  Tali's character development is as limited as most other characters.  More so, really, since she arrives so late in the game.  Better than the ME2 crew, sure.  But as good as Liara?  Garrus?  Heck, EDI? 

How  many conversations does Tali get on the Normandy, especially if you're not romancing her?  I count two.  Which is still better than what you get with Ash, I guess.

Wrex has an entire well received arc too.

Wrex's arc is the krogan arc.  He isn't even a selectable companion.

Ashley got great treatment in the first half, but Kaiden steals the show in the second half with some of the best conversations in the series being with him.

Ash got terrible treatment.  Her high point was Mars.  Seriously, Giving the bad**** marine a Custom Uniform of Sexy is a bad sign for character treatment. 

That ME2 squadmates ended up worse off is only testament how how badly they got it, not how well the VS was treated

Nevermind that in ME3, the party members actually talk to each other consistently. You cannot say this about ME1 and ME2.

Ash talks to Tali once on the Normandy.  And then only if you delay the turian bomb mission until after you've recruited them both.  She doesn't talk to anybody else on the Normandy.  Ever.

[txgoldrush]

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Tali has a whole plot arc where she is required for two major missions and highly recommended for two more. She got great treatment.

No, Rannoch got great treatment (well, depending on how you view the geth aspect)  Tali's character development is as limited as most other characters.  More so, really, since she arrives so late in the game.  Better than the ME2 crew, sure.  But as good as Liara?  Garrus?  Heck, EDI? 

How  many conversations does Tali get on the Normandy, especially if you're not romancing her?  I count two.  Which is still better than what you get with Ash, I guess.

Wrex has an entire well received arc too.

Wrex's arc is the krogan arc.  He isn't even a selectable companion.

Ashley got great treatment in the first half, but Kaiden steals the show in the second half with some of the best conversations in the series being with him.

Ash got terrible treatment.  Her high point was Mars.  Seriously, Giving the bad**** marine a Custom Uniform of Sexy is a bad sign for character treatment. 

That ME2 squadmates ended up worse off is only testament how how badly they got it, not how well the VS was treated

Nevermind that in ME3, the party members actually talk to each other consistently. You cannot say this about ME1 and ME2.

Ash talks to Tali once on the Normandy.  And then only if you delay the turian bomb mission until after you've recruited them both.  She doesn't talk to anybody else on the Normandy.  Ever.

You are not getting it. Yes, Tali comes in the second half, HOWEVER, she is a required character on two missions, and highly recommended on two more, where she will have more to say. So instead of counting the number of conversations on the Normandy, you should see her role in the plot instead.

And she does have character development, you simply missed it. Hell, if you make peace, she says that she would have destroyed the geth and she would have been wrong. Sometimes character development is more subtle. Hell, she develops more than Garrus. Garrus is the most static of the group.

Kaiden's starboard observatory conversation is hands down, one of the best in the game.

And how many conversations do I get with Tali on the Normandy?

1. Her introduction
2. Talking to her in the war room.
3. Talking to her in the captains quarters
4. Talking to her in engineering after the Rannoch arc.
5. Talking to her after Horizon, in the bar.

One Citadel conversation, one romance scene, and a goodbye conversation.

So, you are wrong.

Ever thought that just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it is bad?

Modifié par txgoldrush, 04 janvier 2014 - 01:16 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

iakus wrote...
Not to mention that except for Liara and Garrus, the ME1 team doesn't get get much better treatment than the ME2 team.

Sure, the ME2 team got it worse, but that doesn't make what the ME1 team got good. 

I'd even argue that Liara's character was not that well handled. Her entire SB subplot winds up being completely meaningless and then there is the botched romance dialog.

[CronoDragoon]

iakus wrote...
Ash talks to Tali once on the Normandy.  And then only if you delay the turian bomb mission until after you've recruited them both.  She doesn't talk to anybody else on the Normandy.  Ever.

Javik, and I think it was Garrus after Thessia when they ask Shepard to go check on her.

I speak only for myself but I am fine with the amount of content Tali got in the game. My only complaint about her characterization is that she's too passive in the final Rannoch confrontation, but everything else is spot-on.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 04 janvier 2014 - 01:29 .

[txgoldrush]

Lizardviking wrote...

iakus wrote...
Not to mention that except for Liara and Garrus, the ME1 team doesn't get get much better treatment than the ME2 team.

Sure, the ME2 team got it worse, but that doesn't make what the ME1 team got good. 

I'd even argue that Liara's character was not that well handled. Her entire SB subplot winds up being completely meaningless and then there is the botched romance dialog.

No, her entire SB was used, it doesn't need to be done further. In fact, her focus on the Crucible is more important than her being the Shadow Broker. Nevermind that she is compromised by TIM and that Cerberus surpassed her in information (hell they gave her the data that sparks LotSB), as well as her network getting wiped out by the Reapers. Its all in the narrative.

Liara being the broker is simply not important anymore.

And her romance was fine.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 04 janvier 2014 - 01:34 .

[txgoldrush]

CronoDragoon wrote...

iakus wrote...
Ash talks to Tali once on the Normandy.  And then only if you delay the turian bomb mission until after you've recruited them both.  She doesn't talk to anybody else on the Normandy.  Ever.

Javik, and I think it was Garrus after Thessia when they ask Shepard to go check on her.

I speak only for myself but I am fine with the amount of content Tali got in the game. My only complaint about her characterization is that she's too passive in the final Rannoch confrontation, but everything else is spot-on.

I don't find her the type that would attack Shepard, I think it was right for her to be passive.

Her suicide sequence was brilliant as well.

[CronoDragoon]

txgoldrush wrote...
Liara being the broker is simply not important anymore.

And her romance was fine.

Then what was the point of her becoming Broker in the first place?

[txgoldrush]

CronoDragoon wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
Liara being the broker is simply not important anymore.

And her romance was fine.

Then what was the point of her becoming Broker in the first place?

To use her information to find a way to stop the Reapers. This role is fulfilled with the Crucible.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

txgoldrush wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
Liara being the broker is simply not important anymore.

And her romance was fine.

Then what was the point of her becoming Broker in the first place?

To use her information to find a way to stop the Reapers. This role is fulfilled with the Crucible.

Yes, the Crucible, a Prothean device which could just as easily have been justified been found through the virtue of Liara being a Prothean expert. That is why her SB role was so worthless.

txgoldrush wrote...
And her romance was fine.

Aside from the friend-zoning due to lack of acknowledgement (thinking of the time capsule and 2. lock-in scene) and strange decision to have to two seperate "romance lock-in" dialog.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 04 janvier 2014 - 01:56 .

[Daemul]

txgoldrush wrote... 

And how many conversations do I get with Tali on the Normandy?

1. Her introduction
2. Talking to her in the war room.
3. Talking to her in the captains quarters
4. Talking to her in engineering after the Rannoch arc.
5. Talking to her after Horizon, in the bar.

One Citadel conversation, one romance scene, and a goodbye conversation.

So, you are wrong.

Ever thought that just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it is bad?

You've just reminded me that I was supposed to count the number of conversations(where a dialogue wheel pops up) each of the ME3 squadmates had with Shepard. I really should actually do that sometime, but I keep forgetting.

Modifié par Daemul, 04 janvier 2014 - 02:04 .