Aller au contenu

Photo

I'm frustrated that ME3 didn't learn its lesson IMO


  • Ce sujet est fermé Ce sujet est fermé
1814 réponses à ce sujet

#126
Bourne Endeavor

Bourne Endeavor
  • Members
  • 2 451 messages

wright1978 wrote...

I'll agree that ME3 had to many squaddies. I'll also agree that they maybe should have expanded it to a quadrilogy once they realised that the story could have done with the additional breathing room.


One suggestion I liked was to have ME2 focus on the Quarian/Geth conflict, thus wrapping it up before the Reaper invasion. Inserting the Genophage into the mix was another possibility, but that ultimately did suit ME3. Had they gone the quadrilogy route and dealt with both the Quarian/Geth issues and foreshadowed Cerberus/got rid of them in ME3, then Reapers in ME4. It would have done the series much better service.

#127
teh DRUMPf!!

teh DRUMPf!!
  • Members
  • 9 142 messages
ME3 is self-aware?

#128
CrutchCricket

CrutchCricket
  • Members
  • 7 734 messages

dreamgazer wrote...
How is this getting to all Reapers without using the relays they designed?

It wouldn't. I don't know about others but in my "weakening" scenarios, the solution isn't just one button flip for the entire galaxy. You'd need to redeploy in each system. This would make the endgame more drawn out but also would rely on war assets and strategy more. The way I see it you wouldn't be able to save everyone or destroy every last Reaper. It would leave more interesting options open for the future.

#129
KaiserShep

KaiserShep
  • Members
  • 23 806 messages
No way did ME3 have too many squad members.

#130
Deathsaurer

Deathsaurer
  • Members
  • 1 505 messages

CrutchCricket wrote...

It wouldn't. I don't know about others but in my "weakening" scenarios, the solution isn't just one button flip for the entire galaxy. You'd need to redeploy in each system. This would make the endgame more drawn out but also would rely on war assets and strategy more. The way I see it you wouldn't be able to save everyone or destroy every last Reaper. It would leave more interesting options open for the future.


No no, this would be awful. Either you deal with them all at once or they'll be constantly be lobbing WMD at you via idiots that came flocking to them for power. God forbid they remember they can actually hack other machines at some point.

#131
David7204

David7204
  • Members
  • 15 187 messages
A conventional victory pretty much would have necessitated not all Reapers being destroyed at once.

Somewhat of a solution might have been a post ending DLC (hopefully free) that shows them being mopped up.

#132
KaiserShep

KaiserShep
  • Members
  • 23 806 messages

CrutchCricket wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...
How is this getting to all Reapers without using the relays they designed?

It wouldn't. I don't know about others but in my "weakening" scenarios, the solution isn't just one button flip for the entire galaxy. You'd need to redeploy in each system. This would make the endgame more drawn out but also would rely on war assets and strategy more. The way I see it you wouldn't be able to save everyone or destroy every last Reaper. It would leave more interesting options open for the future.


Dragging the resolution out doesn't strike me as a particularly good idea, and could potentially be even worse than what we got. Besides, how much more are we talking about when it comes to redeploying in each system? It should be noted that the protheans took a similar approach, and that led too their deaths. Unless you take away a good portion of the reapers' strength from the start, there's no way to win this by taking them on system by system, and just having some reapers survive and having more unavoidable deaths means that there is no ending. Do not want.

#133
Neizd

Neizd
  • Members
  • 859 messages
Yep, ME3 didn't learn it's lesson. There were hundreds of topics upon release of ME2 that people wanted space exploration... and in ME3 what do we get? Randomly overheard side-quests that are all about planet scanning for the ancient toilet paper of elcor so they can give us +20 war assets.

Suicide mission was something people really liked, the ability to customize the ultimate ending... and what do we get in ME3? Dull priority:earth mission + RGB choice, no harbringer boss fight because it would be "Too video-gamey" after all, it's not like they are creating a video game /sarcasm

The same issue would be with Tali face...they KNEW people were waiting 5 years. While I agree their decision to make it a photo-realistic isn't THAT bad, the job made on it (especially the badly cut hand) is an abomination.

The game was rushed, it's obvious at this point so if we are to hope that someone learned something from this "mess effect", then that it's Electronic Arts who learned NOT to rush video game developers like Bioware.

#134
AlanC9

AlanC9
  • Members
  • 35 618 messages

CrutchCricket wrote...

You can't safely jump to lightspeed if you're near a planetary mass. 


Source? There's maybe a problem with approaching a planet, but no obvious one with leaving it. (The ME3 scanning minigame is not really evidence)

#135
durasteel

durasteel
  • Members
  • 2 007 messages

CronoDragoon wrote...
...
Right. So I don't see the difference. I mean I see the obvious difference in wiping them out totally and wiping them out piecemeal, but the weapon is still the reason you win, not strategy or "willpower."
...


There is a huge gameplay difference. One way is to activate the Crucible, then roll credits. The other way is to activate the Crucible which levels the playing field somehow, then you get to do stuff and win or die.

I see what you're saying, but in the context of a game, anything that offers some actual gameplay is better than something similar that doesn't.

#136
David7204

David7204
  • Members
  • 15 187 messages
It's still really dumb.

#137
AlanC9

AlanC9
  • Members
  • 35 618 messages

KaiserShep wrote...

Dragging the resolution out doesn't strike me as a particularly good idea, and could potentially be even worse than what we got. Besides, how much more are we talking about when it comes to redeploying in each system? It should be noted that the protheans took a similar approach, and that led too their deaths. Unless you take away a good portion of the reapers' strength from the start, there's no way to win this by taking them on system by system, and just having some reapers survive and having more unavoidable deaths means that there is no ending. Do not want.


How many years does the war with the Empire drag on after the Battle of Endor, though? (Don't ask me; I can't keep the EU stuff straight.)

#138
KaiserShep

KaiserShep
  • Members
  • 23 806 messages

AlanC9 wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

You can't safely jump to lightspeed if you're near a planetary mass. 


Source? There's maybe a problem with approaching a planet, but no obvious one with leaving it. (The ME3 scanning minigame is not really evidence)


Wherever this is apparently written down, it's obviously false. The Normandy jumps into FTL as soon as it leaves the atmosphere in the beginning of ME3, and jumps out of FTL right next to Mars. 

#139
AlanC9

AlanC9
  • Members
  • 35 618 messages

CronoDragoon wrote...


Right. So I don't see the difference. I mean I see the obvious difference in wiping them out totally and wiping them out piecemeal, but the weapon is still the reason you win, not strategy or "willpower."


I think you're missing the point a bit here. The objective is to preserve a feeling of agency; you're analyzing it by the wrong criteria.

Modifié par AlanC9, 18 décembre 2013 - 10:59 .


#140
KaiserShep

KaiserShep
  • Members
  • 23 806 messages

AlanC9 wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Dragging the resolution out doesn't strike me as a particularly good idea, and could potentially be even worse than what we got. Besides, how much more are we talking about when it comes to redeploying in each system? It should be noted that the protheans took a similar approach, and that led too their deaths. Unless you take away a good portion of the reapers' strength from the start, there's no way to win this by taking them on system by system, and just having some reapers survive and having more unavoidable deaths means that there is no ending. Do not want.


How many years does the war with the Empire drag on after the Battle of Endor, though? (Don't ask me; I can't keep the EU stuff straight.)


Yeah, but the reapers are exceptionally worse than the Empire in Star Wars. Aside from being completely tireless, sleepless enemies that can harvest and glass planets without stopping for breath, travel an order of magnitude faster than every ship in the galaxy, they're capable of warping the minds of organics to infiltrate and undermine defense, making any conflict longer than a few months strain feasibility.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 18 décembre 2013 - 11:04 .


#141
FlamingBoy

FlamingBoy
  • Members
  • 3 064 messages
honestly I think there was conflict within the studio in the creation of this game, it tries to be sooo many things even including an "action mode" in order to appeal to a larger audience.

#142
ImaginaryMatter

ImaginaryMatter
  • Members
  • 4 163 messages

FlamingBoy wrote...

honestly I think there was conflict within the studio in the creation of this game, it tries to be sooo many things even including an "action mode" in order to appeal to a larger audience.


There does seem to be a lot of interference from on high, it happened in ME2 and I'm sure it happened in ME3 as well.

#143
AlanC9

AlanC9
  • Members
  • 35 618 messages
Don't fool yourselves. Bio always wanted a mass audience.

#144
FlamingBoy

FlamingBoy
  • Members
  • 3 064 messages

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

honestly I think there was conflict within the studio in the creation of this game, it tries to be sooo many things even including an "action mode" in order to appeal to a larger audience.


There does seem to be a lot of interference from on high, it happened in ME2 and I'm sure it happened in ME3 as well.

Yeah it just seemed signifcantly more prevelant this time around.

#145
Guest_StreetMagic_*

Guest_StreetMagic_*
  • Guests

AlanC9 wrote...

Don't fool yourselves. Bio always wanted a mass audience.


Nothing wrong with that. I don't think they'll do it with a setting like this though. Relatively speaking, "mass audience" dwarfs anything Mass Effect has come close to. Each Call of Duty gets 10 million or more sales. I don't think any of the ME games barely break 4 million -- and they're still a success in their own right. "Mass audience" is just insanely huge. I don't think there's a formula to just magically put in one's game to attain it. And I don't think they should go out of their way to try.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 19 décembre 2013 - 01:54 .


#146
CrutchCricket

CrutchCricket
  • Members
  • 7 734 messages

KaiserShep wrote...
Dragging the resolution out doesn't strike me as a particularly good idea, and could potentially be even worse than what we got. Besides, how much more are we talking about when it comes to redeploying in each system? It should be noted that the protheans took a similar approach, and that led too their deaths. Unless you take away a good portion of the reapers' strength from the start, there's no way to win this by taking them on system by system, and just having some reapers survive and having more unavoidable deaths means that there is no ending. Do not want.

The idea is the Crucible weakens them somehow. I would think that would mean stripping their shields and stunning them somewhat, similar to what Saren's final death did to Sovereign. Which basically makes it a localized Reaper EMP and it means the sequence would be:

1. Deploy forces in target system to defend position
2. Deploy Crucible/Citadel
3. Activate
4. Destroy stunned Reapers.

Rinse and repeat. The Protheans did not have such an effective weapon so it's not a fair comparison. The strategy and war assets would come in because you'd have to decide which systems to liberate first and ultimately which systems to free at all, as you'd still be losing ships and troops during each deployment.

I say some Reapers would survive because I believe that if the playing field is leveled and we actually begin to turn the tables, they would retreat rather than face annihilation. Though yes it does also mean they could and probably would serve as antagonists in teh future. But it would be on a more manageable scale.

Really, the idea of taking the Reapers all out at once, even via space magic is far more undercutting of their threat level than a conventional war that takes years, maybe even decades to complete.

KaiserShep wrote...
Yeah, but the reapers are exceptionally worse than the Empire in Star Wars. Aside from being completely tireless, sleepless enemies that can harvest and glass planets without stopping for breath, travel an order of magnitude faster than every ship in the galaxy, they're capable of warping the minds of organics to infiltrate and undermine defense, making any conflict longer than a few months strain feasibility.

Their technological advantage would be gone with the use of the Crucible- which if sucessful you can bet will be replicated, at least on a smaller scale. And as for indoctrination, we know what the dangers are, we know how to spot it. And knowing is half the battle.

KaiserShep wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

You can't safely jump to lightspeed if you're near a planetary mass. 


Source? There's maybe a problem with approaching a planet, but no obvious one with leaving it. (The ME3 scanning minigame is not really evidence)


Wherever this is apparently written down, it's obviously false. The Normandy jumps into FTL as soon as it leaves the atmosphere in the beginning of ME3, and jumps out of FTL right next to Mars. 

Activates FTL as soon as it's clear of the gravity well, lets the gravity well pull it out of FTL. No-brainer.

Think about what would happen if you collided with anything at those speeds. Now think of how easily a ship could be veered off course by straying too far to a large celestial body. Trust me, those safeguards are there, and they're there for a reason.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 19 décembre 2013 - 02:08 .


#147
KaiserShep

KaiserShep
  • Members
  • 23 806 messages
There's no such thing as common sense when it comes to fictional technologies. Is this information in the FTL codex? 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 19 décembre 2013 - 02:11 .


#148
AlanC9

AlanC9
  • Members
  • 35 618 messages
Well, that's the thing.... what does it mean for Bio to go out of their way? What's their way?

#149
CrutchCricket

CrutchCricket
  • Members
  • 7 734 messages

KaiserShep wrote...

There's no such thing as common sense when it comes to fictional technologies.

Agree to disagree then. Given the pains they've taken to set up the rules for FTL as plausible and grounded in real physics apart from the series' Applied Phlebotinum, common sense is very much justified.

#150
Guest_StreetMagic_*

Guest_StreetMagic_*
  • Guests

AlanC9 wrote...

Well, that's the thing.... what does it mean for Bio to go out of their way? What's their way?


Their way.. hmm.. I'll just steal a line from their own website:
Rich Stories, Unforgettable Characters, And Vast Worlds
I don't think they're going to get Call of Duty numbers and maintain the above. It'd be awesome if they could, but I don't think they will. And they shouldn't go out of their way (i.e. by compromising any of those things) to get it.

And before you ask, I don't think they've really compromised those things yet.