1814 réponses à ce sujet

[txgoldrush]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Their relationships with each other help structure that "core"?

Yep it does....so a crew slapped together that barely talks to eachother is far less of a core than a group that's been together through it all that do have stronger bonds with eachother.

Considering they all split up after Shepard's first death and never spoke to each other until Shepard put them in the same room after resurrecting... yep, birds of a feather all of them.

You are moving the goalposts...they established their relationships in ME1, did they not? They would recognize eachother in ME2 if you take Tali or Garrus to see VS, Liara, and Wrex, do they not?

The relationships between ME2 characters is far less defined than ME1, so that is a huge reason why they are in ME3 and Wrex joins the Citadel mission.

[themikefest]

David7204 wrote...

I have. And I know Morrigan can be dismissed. However, since her role is only during the ending, I'm guessing, and entirely optional, it's a weak example.

Have you played DAO?

[txgoldrush]

themikefest wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

themikefest wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

What themes does Garrus help explore? Because he doesn't really do that. He's there to stand by your side and kick ass. He was kept around because he is popular, not because he had thematic importance, same with Liara.

the ruthless calculus of war, having to make decisions that will cost the lives of others for th egreater good.

Liara is the deuetragonist of not only ME3, but ME1 and the entire series.

Garrus does nothing in ME3 except calibration crap. He has no use in ME3.

T'soni is an annoying little piece of nothing. Her usefulness ended after Mars. Since she is helping with the Crucible and doing her broker thing why not send her to Hackett or give an office on the Citadel to use and let an ME2 character onboard the Normandy.

Because Liara has been in since the beginning and is a more developed character.

Once again, Garrus embodies the main theme of the game, that's why he is important.

Just because she has been there from the beginning doesn't mean crap. If she has to be in the game she can do it from the sidelines.

The only thing Garrus embodies is calibrations. He might be important for you, but he sure as he** isn't to me. Fortunately he is dead in most of my playthroughs

http://tvtropes.org/...n/Deuteragonist

[Steelcan]

I still hate Liara, still got that bullet with her name on it.

Just thought I'd share that

[wolfhowwl]

AresKeith wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

spirosz wrote...

I say the only important people to the story series are - Mordin, Miranda, Wrex, EDI and Taylor (since she does a better job of gathering information than Liara).

Hey look at that, the core squad consists of more Mass Effect 2 characters!'

edit: Legion to an extent, but that depends on how you want the story to flow.

Lets look at it as this

Deuetragonist: Liara
Core Characters: EDI, Garrus, Tali, Joker, and Virmire Survivor
Important secondary characters: Traynor, Mordin, Miranda, Legion

Then there is the rest.

Except Garrus, Tali to an extent, and VS aren't really core characters since they can be killed off 

They are because you lose a squadmate and the associated content, while with other ME2 squadmates you will just lose a cameo in ME3.

Sure they were all killable but ME3 makes it clear which ones mattered more than others.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

txgoldrush wrote...

themikefest wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

themikefest wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

What themes does Garrus help explore? Because he doesn't really do that. He's there to stand by your side and kick ass. He was kept around because he is popular, not because he had thematic importance, same with Liara.

the ruthless calculus of war, having to make decisions that will cost the lives of others for th egreater good.

Liara is the deuetragonist of not only ME3, but ME1 and the entire series.

Garrus does nothing in ME3 except calibration crap. He has no use in ME3.

T'soni is an annoying little piece of nothing. Her usefulness ended after Mars. Since she is helping with the Crucible and doing her broker thing why not send her to Hackett or give an office on the Citadel to use and let an ME2 character onboard the Normandy.

Because Liara has been in since the beginning and is a more developed character.

Once again, Garrus embodies the main theme of the game, that's why he is important.

Just because she has been there from the beginning doesn't mean crap. If she has to be in the game she can do it from the sidelines.

The only thing Garrus embodies is calibrations. He might be important for you, but he sure as he** isn't to me. Fortunately he is dead in most of my playthroughs

http://tvtropes.org/...n/Deuteragonist

And what does this provide exactly? 

TV Tropes isn't proof of anything. Garrus is not the deuteragonist. Namely since it is entirely possible to never recruit him in ME1, and never talk to him in ME2, and getting him killed.

Some deuteragonist. 

[Steelcan]

Liara is actually very unimportant when all is said and done, she has no real purpose after Mars, her status as the SB is virtually ignored, and in combat she is easily surpassed by more durable squadmates.

She has no thematic importance whatsoever, and she is one upped constantly by a damned lab rat. Why on earth is she wasting oxygen on the Normandy

[CynicalShep]

Steelcan wrote...

Liara is actually very unimportant when all is said and done, she has no real purpose after Mars, her status as the SB is virtually ignored, and in combat she is easily surpassed by more durable squadmates.

She has no thematic importance whatsoever, and she is one upped constantly by a damned lab rat. Why on earth is she wasting oxygen on the Normandy

Because she loves Shepard

[wolfhowwl]

Steelcan wrote...

Liara is actually very unimportant when all is said and done, she has no real purpose after Mars, her status as the SB is virtually ignored, and in combat she is easily surpassed by more durable squadmates.

She has no thematic importance whatsoever, and she is one upped constantly by a damned lab rat. Why on earth is she wasting oxygen on the Normandy

...because she is a popular character, same reason Tali and Garrus are back.

[txgoldrush]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

themikefest wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

themikefest wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

What themes does Garrus help explore? Because he doesn't really do that. He's there to stand by your side and kick ass. He was kept around because he is popular, not because he had thematic importance, same with Liara.

the ruthless calculus of war, having to make decisions that will cost the lives of others for th egreater good.

Liara is the deuetragonist of not only ME3, but ME1 and the entire series.

Garrus does nothing in ME3 except calibration crap. He has no use in ME3.

T'soni is an annoying little piece of nothing. Her usefulness ended after Mars. Since she is helping with the Crucible and doing her broker thing why not send her to Hackett or give an office on the Citadel to use and let an ME2 character onboard the Normandy.

Because Liara has been in since the beginning and is a more developed character.

Once again, Garrus embodies the main theme of the game, that's why he is important.

Just because she has been there from the beginning doesn't mean crap. If she has to be in the game she can do it from the sidelines.

The only thing Garrus embodies is calibrations. He might be important for you, but he sure as he** isn't to me. Fortunately he is dead in most of my playthroughs

http://tvtropes.org/...n/Deuteragonist

And what does this provide exactly? 

TV Tropes isn't proof of anything. Garrus is not the deuteragonist. Namely since it is entirely possible to never recruit him in ME1, and never talk to him in ME2, and getting him killed.

Some deuteragonist. 

They say Liara more so....learn to read it.

[themikefest]

txgoldrush wrote...

http://tvtropes.org/...n/Deuteragonist

post whatever link you want if it makes you feel better. She is still garbage. ME1 she didn't need to be a squadmate to tell you about Ilos. She didn't need to be a squadmate to become the shadow broker. And in Me3 she doesn't need to be a squadmate to help find resources for the crucible or keep track of her agents.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

txgoldrush wrote...

They say Liara more so....learn to read it.

I did read it. And I'm wondering why you're using TV Tropes as a form of credible evidence.

Joker fits the role of deuteragonist better than Liara does. 

I don't even think Mass Effect even has a deuteragonist.

[CynicalShep]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

They say Liara more so....learn to read it.

I did read it. And I'm wondering why you're using TV Tropes as a form of credible evidence.

Joker fits the role of deuteragonist better than Liara does. 

I don't even think Mass Effect even has a deuteragonist.

And Liara's plot armor is frustrating at times.

[GreyLycanTrope]

txgoldrush wrote...
They say Liara more so....learn to read it.

They also say the point is arguable in all three cases so....

[txgoldrush]

Steelcan wrote...

Liara is actually very unimportant when all is said and done, she has no real purpose after Mars, her status as the SB is virtually ignored, and in combat she is easily surpassed by more durable squadmates.

She has no thematic importance whatsoever, and she is one upped constantly by a damned lab rat. Why on earth is she wasting oxygen on the Normandy

There you go again.

she has no real purpose after Mars - wrong, the mission on Thessia proves otherwise.

her status as the SB is virtually ignored - wrong, its addressed that her power has been dimished. It is factually incorrect to say it is unknown.

in combat she is easily surpassed by more durable squadmates - and yet player data for Bioware list her as one of the most used squadmates. Also has nothing to do with the story.

She has no thematic importance whatsoever - so you ignored the theme on how a past race helps a future one, the entire beacon scene

Once again, you are voicing your opinion through falsehoods. There you go again. Just because you hate liara does not mean you can spin the facts to create an image of her uselessness.

[AlanC9]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Liara is actually very unimportant when all is said and done, she has no real purpose after Mars, her status as the SB is virtually ignored, and in combat she is easily surpassed by more durable squadmates.

She has no thematic importance whatsoever, and she is one upped constantly by a damned lab rat. Why on earth is she wasting oxygen on the Normandy

...because she is a popular character, same reason Tali and Garrus are back.

/thread?

[txgoldrush]

themikefest wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

http://tvtropes.org/...n/Deuteragonist

post whatever link you want if it makes you feel better. She is still garbage. ME1 she didn't need to be a squadmate to tell you about Ilos. She didn't need to be a squadmate to become the shadow broker. And in Me3 she doesn't need to be a squadmate to help find resources for the crucible or keep track of her agents.

But the fact is Bioware used her to be the most important squadmate. Stop ignoring this.

You want to ignore the clear fact that Bioware makes her an important character just because you do not like the character.

[Br3admax]

Liara was needed for Thessia? Only if the option to kill her was still left in the game.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

J. Reezy wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Garrus is not the deuteragonist. Namely since it is entirely possible to never recruit him in ME1, and never talk to him in ME2, and getting him killed.

Some deuteragonist. 

Correcto! This guy is a deuteragonist:

I know how much you like anime. You know who that is.

That looks like Naruto. Don't remember the guy's name, just that he was a wangsty little **** who needed to get his ass beat and learn how to man up.

[GreyLycanTrope]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
That looks like Naruto. Don't remember the guy's name, just that he was a wangsty little **** who needed to get his ass beat and learn how to man up.

He still needs that beating.

[ImaginaryMatter]

txgoldrush wrote...

You are moving the goalposts...they established their relationships in ME1, did they not? They would recognize eachother in ME2 if you take Tali or Garrus to see VS, Liara, and Wrex, do they not?

The relationships between ME2 characters is far less defined than ME1, so that is a huge reason why they are in ME3 and Wrex joins the Citadel mission.

Garrus and Tali do the same thing with ME2 characters in ME3 as well (with the same level of acknowledgement as ME1) , so the ME1 and ME2 squads are pretty equal on that front. This is subjective but there seems to be more interaction between the ME2 squadmates in ME3, than with ME1 sqadmates in ME2.

What do you mean less defined in ME2 than ME1? The mission banter is the same. And ME2 implies that the squadmates get out of there rooms and talk to each other, same as in ME1. In both cases squadmates rarely move from there spots and only gather to talk to each other during cutscenes.

I'm not trying to move the goalposts but you keep implying that there is a greater connection between the ME1 squad and the ME2 squad when there isn't. On the Normandys people don't move and talk to each other but they say they do, the crew only gathers during cutscenes after missions, they get the same level of acknowledgement in the proceeding games, the banter is the same during missions, no one remains in contact with each other as soon as Shepard leaves, etc. The only thing that ME1 vs ME2 is that the characters say the others' name sometimes on the Citadel elevators.

[themikefest]

[quote]txgoldrush wrote...

[quote]Steelcan wrote...

Liara is actually very unimportant when all is said and done, she has no real purpose after Mars, her status as the SB is virtually ignored, and in combat she is easily surpassed by more durable squadmates.

She has no thematic importance whatsoever, and she is one upped constantly by a damned lab rat. Why on earth is she wasting oxygen on the Normandy[/quote]

There you go again.

she has no real purpose after Mars - wrong, the mission on Thessia proves otherwise.

quote]
The mission on Thessia was an outright joke.Javik proves she is not a prothean expert. I would rather have Samara on that mission to hear her insight instead of hearing the whining Smurfette.

[Invisible Man]

I have to say garrus is more of a core character than javik, because javik is dlc content... I played through ME3 twice before I got the from ashes dlc. and perplexing enough, because I'd have to call javik a vital character, for without that dlc you don't get a vanguard, unless shepard happened to be one.

[Steelcan]

@txgoldrush, call me up when you can do something more than just make up excuses that everyone knows to be false.