1814 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

EntropicAngel wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I legitimately think Yvonne Strahovski, Mark Meer, and Martin Sheen did the best jobs.

The quote in my profile, is, IMO, the single best performed quote in the series.

Your profile is private.

And it will remain so to any who are not my friends.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Hale imo, is just...

I love Jennifer Hale. I hate her voices that are more action oriented. FemShep has a terrible voice. To deep, too masculine.

She has a great feminine voice, and she did an incredible job as Bastila and Satele Shan. But she just doesn't have a very good masculine voice.

I kind of wish it was like DA:O to a degree, where you could slightly choose your Warden's voice. Have a few different people do it for both Femshep and Maleshep, including the possibility of having an accent (apart from the more even, neutral American accent you get for both).

[ruggly]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Hale imo, is just...

I love Jennifer Hale. I hate her voices that are more action oriented. FemShep has a terrible voice. To deep, too masculine.

She has a great feminine voice, and she did an incredible job as Bastila and Satele Shan. But she just doesn't have a very good masculine voice.

It was fine for me, but it's a little weird to hear the exact same tone being used for the trooper in SWTOR.

[ImaginaryMatter]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I legitimately think Yvonne Strahovski, Mark Meer, and Martin Sheen did the best jobs.

The quote in my profile, is, IMO, the single best performed quote in the series.

Your profile is private.

And it will remain so to any who are not my friends.

Hmm, what's the quote?

[GreyLycanTrope]

Could listen to her all day.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Could listen to her all day.

I wonder if there's one for when FemShep becomes a total lech for James in the Citadel DLC?

[txgoldrush]

J. Reezy wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...
If the dueteragonist is the second most important character in the story the role of dueteragonist is subjective because value is completely open to interpretation.

Not always. If that was the case then anyone could arbitrarily say Shepard's not the protagonist of Mass Effect because blah, blah. The deuteragonist is categorized in that same vain.

This

People who hate Liara need to accept that she is the second most important character in the series. All evidence points this instead of ignoring this evidence.

I don't like Bastila, I think she is a lousy character and one of the worst aspects of KOTOR. I think he turn to the dark side is full on contrived and I think it is the reason why Obsidian implemented the influence system in KOTOR 2. But she is clearly the dueteragonist of KOTOR after the protagonist Revan. I am not going to be ignorant and try to devalue her role as "not that important".. And tritagonist Carth sucks too.

[ImaginaryMatter]

txgoldrush wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...
If the dueteragonist is the second most important character in the story the role of dueteragonist is subjective because value is completely open to interpretation.

Not always. If that was the case then anyone could arbitrarily say Shepard's not the protagonist of Mass Effect because blah, blah. The deuteragonist is categorized in that same vain.

This

People who hate Liara need to accept that she is the second most important character in the series. All evidence points this instead of ignoring this evidence.

I don't like Bastila, I think she is a lousy character and one of the worst aspects of KOTOR. I think he turn to the dark side is full on contrived and I think it is the reason why Obsidian implemented the influence system in KOTOR 2. But she is clearly the dueteragonist of KOTOR after the protagonist Revan. I am not going to be ignorant and try to devalue her role as "not that important".. And tritagonist Carth sucks too.

Well, hypothetically, what prevents TIM from being the deuteragonist? It is generally accepted that the deuteragonist can act against the protaganist and even be sided with the primary antagonist. TIM is behind much of the events set in motion in ME2 and ME3 (and this is all the more evident in the books and comics). All of TIMs actions argueably have a larger impact than Liara's and the guy oozes Mass Effect themes.

Modifié par ImaginaryMatter, 05 janvier 2014 - 05:08 .

[txgoldrush]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...
If the dueteragonist is the second most important character in the story the role of dueteragonist is subjective because value is completely open to interpretation.

Not always. If that was the case then anyone could arbitrarily say Shepard's not the protagonist of Mass Effect because blah, blah. The deuteragonist is categorized in that same vain.

This

People who hate Liara need to accept that she is the second most important character in the series. All evidence points this instead of ignoring this evidence.

I don't like Bastila, I think she is a lousy character and one of the worst aspects of KOTOR. I think he turn to the dark side is full on contrived and I think it is the reason why Obsidian implemented the influence system in KOTOR 2. But she is clearly the dueteragonist of KOTOR after the protagonist Revan. I am not going to be ignorant and try to devalue her role as "not that important".. And tritagonist Carth sucks too.

Well, hypothetically, what prevents TIM from being the deuteragonist? It is generally accepted that the deuteragonist can act against the protaganist and even be sided with the primary antagonist. TIM is behind much of the events set in motion in ME2 and ME3 (and this is all the more evident in the books and comics).

No, he is the secondary antagonist taken the series overall. The Catalyst is the primary.

They can only oppose the protagonist for so long.

[ImaginaryMatter]

txgoldrush wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...
If the dueteragonist is the second most important character in the story the role of dueteragonist is subjective because value is completely open to interpretation.

Not always. If that was the case then anyone could arbitrarily say Shepard's not the protagonist of Mass Effect because blah, blah. The deuteragonist is categorized in that same vain.

This

People who hate Liara need to accept that she is the second most important character in the series. All evidence points this instead of ignoring this evidence.

I don't like Bastila, I think she is a lousy character and one of the worst aspects of KOTOR. I think he turn to the dark side is full on contrived and I think it is the reason why Obsidian implemented the influence system in KOTOR 2. But she is clearly the dueteragonist of KOTOR after the protagonist Revan. I am not going to be ignorant and try to devalue her role as "not that important".. And tritagonist Carth sucks too.

Well, hypothetically, what prevents TIM from being the deuteragonist? It is generally accepted that the deuteragonist can act against the protaganist and even be sided with the primary antagonist. TIM is behind much of the events set in motion in ME2 and ME3 (and this is all the more evident in the books and comics).

No, he is the secondary antagonist taken the series overall. The Catalyst is the primary.

They can only oppose the protagonist for so long.

And what's too long? Is there a timer? Is it the fraction of the story they spend opposing the protagonist? Isn't the conflict between him and Shepard not a matter of goals but an issue of methods. Does any of this matter? As said previously a Deuteragonist can be an antagonist. The guy certainly drives the plot forward and many of his actions are ultimately large and very important in Shepard finally succeeding, and most of them were even intended.

This is why you can't throw around words like 'evidence' and 'facts' willy-nilly in this kind of discussion. As said before a Deuteragonist is generally decided by the characters importance to the story. How do you measure something like that? How do you measure time spent opposing the protagonist? All these things are open to interpretation. People react in different ways to different things in a story, these things have impact on how they react to events in a story.

So, what makes your opinion right?

[dreamgazer]

I, for one, sat with a stopwatch while playing ME2 for this very purpose.

[ImaginaryMatter]

dreamgazer wrote...

I, for one, sat with a stopwatch while playing ME2 for this very purpose.

I imagine that would make running around and shooting very difficult.

[dreamgazer]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

I, for one, sat with a stopwatch while playing ME2 for this very purpose.

I imagine that would make running around and shooting very difficult.

Pshhht. That's what feet are for. 

[txgoldrush]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...
If the dueteragonist is the second most important character in the story the role of dueteragonist is subjective because value is completely open to interpretation.

Not always. If that was the case then anyone could arbitrarily say Shepard's not the protagonist of Mass Effect because blah, blah. The deuteragonist is categorized in that same vain.

This

People who hate Liara need to accept that she is the second most important character in the series. All evidence points this instead of ignoring this evidence.

I don't like Bastila, I think she is a lousy character and one of the worst aspects of KOTOR. I think he turn to the dark side is full on contrived and I think it is the reason why Obsidian implemented the influence system in KOTOR 2. But she is clearly the dueteragonist of KOTOR after the protagonist Revan. I am not going to be ignorant and try to devalue her role as "not that important".. And tritagonist Carth sucks too.

Well, hypothetically, what prevents TIM from being the deuteragonist? It is generally accepted that the deuteragonist can act against the protaganist and even be sided with the primary antagonist. TIM is behind much of the events set in motion in ME2 and ME3 (and this is all the more evident in the books and comics).

No, he is the secondary antagonist taken the series overall. The Catalyst is the primary.

They can only oppose the protagonist for so long.

And what's too long? Is there a timer? Is it the fraction of the story they spend opposing the protagonist? Isn't the conflict between him and Shepard not a matter of goals but an issue of methods. Does any of this matter? As said previously a Deuteragonist can be an antagonist. The guy certainly drives the plot forward and many of his actions are ultimately large and very important in Shepard finally succeeding, and most of them were even intended.

This is why you can't throw around words like 'evidence' and 'facts' willy-nilly in this kind of discussion. As said before a Deuteragonist is generally decided by the characters importance to the story. How do you measure something like that? How do you measure time spent opposing the protagonist? All these things are open to interpretation. People react in different ways to different things in a story, these things have impact on how they react to events in a story.

So, what makes your opinion right?

If you want to look a ME2 specifically than TIM would definitely be a tritagonist to Miranda's deuteragonist, but this is before he takes the antagonist role.

And no, a dueteragonist can only oppose the protagonist for so long, otherwise, he is by definition an antagonist.  They can definitely be foils, but they cannot in the end oppose the protagonist. This is why Kreia is not the dueteragonist of KOTOR II even though she acts like one for most of the game. Same with Jowy Atrides in Suikoden II. They are defined as main antagonists because in the end, they oppose the protagonist.

TIM ends up being the secondary antagonist to the Catalyst (or the Reapers) primary antagonist, just like Saren.

And the closest thing to a tritagonist in ME3 is EDI.

[dreamgazer]

J. Reezy wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

I, for one, sat with a stopwatch while playing ME2 for this very purpose.

I imagine that would make running around and shooting very difficult.

Uh...what?

Don't worry: it's a dueteragonist thing.  You just wouldn't get it.

[Dominus]

I know some think ME3 is fantastic and I thought it was a "great game" too, but storywise and in terms of gameplay (mostly dialogue) the game felt sooo dumbed down and especially the writing struggled to make me take it seriously at its worst and that happened far more often than in ME2 for me.

I enjoyed them all, but not equally, and for very different reasons. The writing was at its best and combat at its worst in ME1. I would say the direct opposite applies to ME3. ME2 was sort of the monkey in the middle.

As far as "Have they learned their lesson?", you're likely to find out when written dialogue previews appear. Until then, it's lots of speculation from everyone.

Modifié par DominusVita, 05 janvier 2014 - 05:59 .

[txgoldrush]

DominusVita wrote...

I know some think ME3 is fantastic and I thought it was a "great game" too, but storywise and in terms of gameplay (mostly dialogue) the game felt sooo dumbed down and especially the writing struggled to make me take it seriously at its worst and that happened far more often than in ME2 for me.

I enjoyed them all, but not equally, and for very different reasons. The writing was at its best and combat at its worst in ME1. I would say the direct opposite applies to ME3. ME2 was sort of the monkey in the middle.

As far as "Have they learned their lesson?", you're likely to find out when written dialogue previews appear. Until then, it's lots of speculation from everyone.

ME1s writing has its problems. The characters lacked development and the plot was pretty contrived. It also had some pacing issues. ME2's plot is the worst in the series and had to have DLC to lead into ME3.

And really, Saren didn't even need the Conduit, he could have used other methods to take control of the Citadel without raising suspicion.

ME3 is the only game in the series to have a drive of a plot, and character development.

[txgoldrush]

J. Reezy wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...
If the dueteragonist is the second most important character in the story the role of dueteragonist is subjective because value is completely open to interpretation.

Not always. If that was the case then anyone could arbitrarily say Shepard's not the protagonist of Mass Effect because blah, blah. The deuteragonist is categorized in that same vain.

This

People who hate Liara need to accept that she is the second most important character in the series. All evidence points this instead of ignoring this evidence.

I don't like Bastila, I think she is a lousy character and one of the worst aspects of KOTOR. I think he turn to the dark side is full on contrived and I think it is the reason why Obsidian implemented the influence system in KOTOR 2. But she is clearly the dueteragonist of KOTOR after the protagonist Revan. I am not going to be ignorant and try to devalue her role as "not that important".. And tritagonist Carth sucks too.

Well, hypothetically, what prevents TIM from being the deuteragonist? It is generally accepted that the deuteragonist can act against the protaganist and even be sided with the primary antagonist. TIM is behind much of the events set in motion in ME2 and ME3 (and this is all the more evident in the books and comics).

No, he is the secondary antagonist taken the series overall. The Catalyst is the primary.

They can only oppose the protagonist for so long.

And what's too long? Is there a timer? Is it the fraction of the story they spend opposing the protagonist? Isn't the conflict between him and Shepard not a matter of goals but an issue of methods. Does any of this matter? As said previously a Deuteragonist can be an antagonist. The guy certainly drives the plot forward and many of his actions are ultimately large and very important in Shepard finally succeeding, and most of them were even intended.

This is why you can't throw around words like 'evidence' and 'facts' willy-nilly in this kind of discussion. As said before a Deuteragonist is generally decided by the characters importance to the story. How do you measure something like that? How do you measure time spent opposing the protagonist? All these things are open to interpretation. People react in different ways to different things in a story, these things have impact on how they react to events in a story.

So, what makes your opinion right?

If you want to look a ME2 specifically than TIM would definitely be a tritagonist to Miranda's deuteragonist, but this is before he takes the antagonist role.

And no, a dueteragonist can only oppose the protagonist for so long, otherwise, he is by definition an antagonist.

What stops the antagonist from also fulfilling the role as the second most important person after the protagonist in a story though? The two roles aren't mutually exclusive.

If he opposes the protagonist in the end.
 
While it is possible to have antagonistic deuteragonists, they usually stop opposing the hero in the end.

[txgoldrush]

J. Reezy wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

ME3 is the only game in the series to have a drive of a plot, and character development.

Pfft...

Stop it five.

ME1 was all plot with very little character development, ME2 was all character development with very little plot.

[Dominus]

ME1s writing has its problems. The characters lacked development and the plot was pretty contrived. It also had some pacing issues

That's fair, I'd meant relative to the series in general. It's no Shakespeare or Game of Thrones. I enjoyed the original game the same way I did for Secret of Mana - Great atmosphere, interesting flavor of combat, etc, even if the main story itself didn't feel like it was breaking new ground. A fresh take on old ideas, perhaps?

ME3 is the only game in the series to have a drive of a plot, and character development.

I'm not sure what to say to that without a bit more elaboration XD