1814 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

The way I see it, if the Crucible is written to somehow stun the reapers and disable their shields (giant Powerbook virus a la Independence Day?), it might as well kill them outright and spare us the tedium of spreading across the galaxy to mop up the rest of them, and basically get an open-ended conclusion that amounts to no ending at all.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 19 décembre 2013 - 02:19 .

[KaiserShep]

Considering how Infinity Ward does not consider the average Call of Duty customer a "real gamer", I'm not sure I'd want BioWare to follow their lead when it comes to who they aim for when developing their games.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 19 décembre 2013 - 02:23 .

[CrutchCricket]

Well more justified than Independence Day, given that the Crucible is supposed to be older/more powerful than Reaper tech.

And I still hold that killing them all in one fell swoop cheapens them more than a drawn out bloody conventional victory. Localized death beams/waves I could handle. One of my earliest "make your own ending" ideas was Crucible+Citadel=Death Star and it oneshots Reapers like it's haax. Though you'd still have to deploy it system by system and could still lose if you didn't defend it properly.

[KaiserShep]

I feel like I'm alone in actually liking the use of the mass relay network against the reapers.

[dreamgazer]

KaiserShep wrote...

I feel like I'm alone in actually liking the use of the mass relay network against the reapers.

Nah, you're not. 

[CrutchCricket]

Meh. I can see the appeal- turn the tools of our oppressors against them. But I figure we already got that covered with Thannix cannons. Besides since all ME tech is Reaper tech it's a moot point anyway.

[KaiserShep]

The problem I have with this alternative is that it seems to serve mainly as a way to leave the galaxy in a far worse state, regardless of the choices you make. Earth is saved first, the fleets are thrown at the stunned reapers, some are lost in the struggle, and when the long bloody battle is over, they have to leave and go to the next system, which would be...? Then that system is the same deal, and so on and so forth, and during all of this, the fleets are whittling down as the hobbled reapers resist, and then we don't even get to kill them all. I simply don't like it. It strikes me as a hopeless ending that goes on well after the credits roll.

I am assuming that in this scenario, only 2 or 3 systems would even be truly saved, while the rest are totally obliterated, since the time it takes to deal with the reapers, even weakened ones, system by system would ensure that no help comes in time to those much farther away.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 19 décembre 2013 - 02:34 .

[KaiserShep]

The thanix cannon doesn't seem like a meaningful resolution in and of itself, because it's far too basic a countermeasure. If such a thing was enough to be a real threat to the reapers, you'd think that someone else would've figured that out ages ago.

[Deathsaurer]

dreamgazer wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

I feel like I'm alone in actually liking the use of the mass relay network against the reapers.

Nah, you're not. 

It's actually a brilliant idea. The execution is what all the drama stems from.

[CrutchCricket]

KaiserShep wrote...

The problem I have with this alternative is that it seems to serve mainly as a way to leave the galaxy in a far worse state, regardless of the choices you make. Earth is saved first, the fleets are thrown at the stunned reapers, some are lost in the struggle, and when the long bloody battle is over, they have to leave and go to the next system, which would be...? Then that system is the same deal, and so on and so forth, and during all of this, the fleets are whittling down as the hobbled reapers resist, and then we don't even get to kill them all. I simply don't like it. It strikes me as a hopeless ending that goes on well after the credits roll.

I am assuming that in this scenario, only 2 or 3 systems would even be truly saved, while the rest are totally obliterated, since the time it takes to deal with the reapers, even weakened ones, system by system would ensure that no help comes in time to those much farther away.

Well again you have to ask yourself if making just one choice that makes the galaxy the land of happiness and chocolates, or even slightly better is compatible with the threat level the Reapers have been presented as for the past three games.

We're presented with a unstoppable, galactic extinction event perpetuated by creatures that at one point were considered Lovecraftian, and all of a sudden we can just snap our fingers, make them go away and go back to our daily lives, with them as our slaves or with everything green and happy? What the hell were we even worried about then?

I think given what the Reapers are, the galaxy is supposed to get trashed, one way or another. I don't think it needs to be quite as bleak as you're assuming and certainly not what the original ending was implying. But yeah, losses would be substantial.

As for the systems, I'm thinking you'd have a few different categories. Homeworlds, major resource centers, major population centers, and everything else. Assume highest EMS, you'd be able to save all homeworlds and most resource and population centers but not all. And of course the order in which you'd do them would dictate how damaged each system would be. But there's no reason to assume everyone not in the first two or three systems saved is doomed. Even at full strength a harvest takes about a century. Unless the Reapers were going scorched earth, casualty rates wouldn't be apocalyptic.

The other point here is that this wouldn't be the end-all cap to the Reaper saga that Bioware wanted ME3 to be. Why should it be so unnaturally cut off after the third game? You can't one-up the Reapers for ME4 so why not keep a few of them around as persisting threats? To compare to Star Wars again, if Jedi had done the ME3 thing, Luke would've come up with some last minute Force bull**** that makes every ship in the Empire explode for some reason. And then we wouldn't have had the Thrawn trilogy.  This adamant cut-off approach is useless and absurd.

[Sanunes]

After reading the first page, I figure I would just put my feelings on the subject here.

- The community complains that studios aren't trying anything new and everything feels the same.
- BioWare takes a risk with how the game ends. (Good or Bad that is a personal decision)
- The community complains about how the end of the game was bad and not what they expected or wanted.
- BioWare goes back to its old formula to make sure not to offend anyone.
- The community complains that studios aren't trying anything new and everything feels the same.

This is how subjects like this come across to me, BioWare took a risk and failed and that is fine, but the way people keep beating the dead horse on this subject is going to prevent BioWare and other companies from even bothering to try in the future because they don't want this reaction so everything is going to be even more generic.

[CrutchCricket]

StreetMagic wrote...
Is that really the case? I can't tell if people are directly borrowing Reaper designs in places, or just inspired by the underlying principle of mass effect fields. It seems like some of it is just ingenuity (like the toothbrushes heh). I think there's a codex about humanity's rise in galactic affairs, and how surprised the rest of the races were in how quickly humans applied themselves to these new ideas.. it made them a force to be reckoned with right off the bat. But they weren't necessarily replicating old designs. For example, that clip of the Turians laughing at the human's Lancer rifle. They underestimated it at first.

Yes there is some ingenuity and diversification. But a main theme to the series and one of the main reasons the Reaper trap works so well is the stagnation and complacency of technological advancement. Everybody uses Reaper tech without bothering to really understand it and that's partly why they get so easily roflstomped.

The core scientific principle is the mass effect as achieved with eezo sure. But almost every application of that is still just adapted Reaper design.

[Eryri]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Well again you have to ask yourself if making just one choice that makes the galaxy the land of happiness and chocolates, or even slightly better is compatible with the threat level the Reapers have been presented as for the past three games.

We're presented with a unstoppable, galactic extinction event perpetuated by creatures that at one point were considered Lovecraftian, and all of a sudden we can just snap our fingers, make them go away and go back to our daily lives, with them as our slaves or with everything green and happy? What the hell were we even worried about then?

I think given what the Reapers are, the galaxy is supposed to get trashed, one way or another. Snip

The other point here is that this wouldn't be the end-all cap to the Reaper saga that Bioware wanted ME3 to be. Why should it be so unnaturally cut off after the third game? You can't one-up the Reapers for ME4 so why not keep a few of them around as persisting threats? To compare to Star Wars again, if Jedi had done the ME3 thing, Luke would've come up with some last minute Force bull**** that makes every ship in the Empire explode for some reason. And then we wouldn't have had the Thrawn trilogy.  This adamant cut-off approach is useless and absurd.

I completely agree, particularly with the bolded. One game was simply not enough to do justice to the Reaper war.

[CosmicGnosis]

KaiserShep wrote...

I feel like I'm alone in actually liking the use of the mass relay network against the reapers.

No, I totally support it. I assumed that it would be vital for opposing the Reapers.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 19 décembre 2013 - 03:15 .

[Iakus]

KaiserShep wrote...

I feel like I'm alone in actually liking the use of the mass relay network against the reapers.

It's poetic.

Though I think I'm the only one who thinks they're worth giving up to stop the reapers

[KaiserShep]

Well, without them, a lot of characters would be stranded and die, particularly the quarians and turians.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...
It's poetic.

Though I think I'm the only one who thinks they're worth giving up to stop the reapers

Not the only one. I've always figured the galaxy could get along fine without relays - mass effect drives are better than Star Trek warp drives.

The stranded thing's a bummer, but worse things have happened. Starvation isn't all that likely unless things went badly at Rannoch. Unless all the liveships got blown up during the battle, but I think we can count on the mercy of the plot gods there.

Modifié par AlanC9, 19 décembre 2013 - 03:32 .

[AlanC9]

That's the advantage of having some of everybody in Sol system. Though humans will vastly outnumber the other races locally, yeah.

Modifié par AlanC9, 19 décembre 2013 - 03:36 .

[Nightwriter]

I put little stock in game reviewers. They're rarely invested enough to recognize these things. Usually they play through a game only once and have not followed the series enough to know a writing messup when they see it.