47 réponses à ce sujet

[RatThing]

It'd be okay if you can adress the clash somehow. I always imagined my colonist Shepard would be partly pissed at the Alliance for not doing enough during the raid on Mindoir. She would have an ambivalent relationshipwith the Alliance, especially with the more hesitant members and superiors, but you can't play this way. I'm probably expecting here too much customization to my own ideas anyways, but letting the background be more important to the story is certainly a good idea.

Modifié par RatThing, 18 décembre 2013 - 09:30 .

[Armass81]

I agree that oversight was really stupid when meeting the illusive man first time. I mean you meet the leader of the organization which pretty much arranged the most traumatic moment in your life and you say NOTHING?

Modifié par Armass81, 18 décembre 2013 - 09:33 .

[wright1978]

Armass81 wrote...

I agree that oversight was really stupid when meeting the illusive man first time. I mean you meet the leader of the organization which pretty much arranged the most traumatic moment in your life and you say NOTHING?

I agree there should have been dialogue relating to the clash of that background with the main plot in me2.
In a similar way there should have been dialogue relating to the potential clash of returning to Alliance in ME3 as not everyone was spent their time desperately voicing their love of the boys in blue.

[Bourne Endeavor]

RatThing wrote...

It'd be okay if you can adress the clash somehow. I always imagined my colonist Shepard would be partly pissed at the Alliance for not doing enough during the raid on Mindoir. She would have an ambivalent relationshipwith the Alliance, especially with the more hesitant members and superiors, but you can't play this way. I'm probably expecting here too much customization to my own ideas anyways, but letting the background be more important to the story is certainly a good idea.

I do this via headcanon throughout Mass Effect 3. Some of my Shepards have an ambivalent, to near ME2 Cerberus-esque relationship toward the Alliance: i.e, I am only doing this because I have to. Unfortunately, the narrative tries to shoehorn you a little too frequently into an Alliance stooge, which was frankly unnecessary. I do not believe asking for a little more divisive dialogue options would be much. In fact, they could use the DA2 approach, where your mannerism helps dedicate some of the auto-dialogue, for exampe that damn salute. I have a couple Shepards that simply would never salute Hackett because they do not feel any association with the Alliance.

Barring that, just get rid of some horribly hammy lines, like "This is an insult to the Alliance." The first line, "Do Salarians always come with sharpshooters?" as just fine. Actually, it worked perfectly for a bit of renegade sass. But they ruin it with the Alliance trite.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 18 décembre 2013 - 09:55 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Well... given that I RP my Sole Survivor Shepard as having already been a member of Cerberus at the time of the Akuze incident, it leaves her exact role in events a bit more... ambiguous.

[KaiserShep]

Yeah this backstory makes the Cerberus involvement pretty bad. My sole survivor does not let that scientist Toombs was after leave that planet alive. At the very least, she gets to face her fear and give another maw a face full of Cain.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 18 décembre 2013 - 10:17 .

[Kiwiphoenix]

Well, it gave an opportunity to hit all those renegade lines I'd been avoiding all through ME1. You may have effectively been enslaved by the people who got 49 of your friends eaten by aliens, but you don't have to like it!
Actually, it kind of feels good to have people you can be a complete ass to, without any moral repercussions. Though to be fair, most of the Cerberus crew are decent people.

Now, I will never understand why, after hearing her extoll the virtues of sadistic terrorists for 75% of ME2, we're expected to buy into Miranda's abrupt loyalty face-heel turn, and give her war materiel for an undisclosed personal project in ME3. That's not Paragon, that's just stupid.

[eyezonlyii]

My main Shepard is Sole Survivor as well, and I agree with the above. What I can't understand is those people who claim their Shepard would never go back to the Alliance. Why not? He/she joined the Alliance in the first place. Of all the things you CAN customize about Shepard, the one thing you can't is that the Alliance is part of them. It's how the universe relates to them and to be quite honest, no one would take a Cerberus Shepard seriously. At least not major governments and certainly not the Council (considering they don't take any Shepard seriously to begin with).
Everyone knows that Cerberus is a "human first" (anti-alien) organization and it's pretty well alluded to the fact that the Illusive man was just showing you the red carpet version so that you would play on his side. Akuze, Pragia, Thrian creepers, Kohoku, all that is the real Cerberus and those events in no way show me that they are a credible endeavor. I mean, since ME1, what did Cerberus accomplish? and the Collectos don't count because Shepard "isn't working for them" (even though he flies their ship and his XO is one of their top agents).

And for my last poke in the fire: Miranda shills for Cerberus just as much (if not more than) as Ashley for the Alliance.

[eyezonlyii]

StreetMagic wrote...

I just try to roleplay my Shepard as obsessed with the Reapers enough to eventually overlook it.. He bites his tongue and tries to focus on something more important. In the same sense, I end up doing the same to Jack..trying to tell her to get over her issues... but then after her loyalty mission, Overlord, and the TIM's Collector Ship antics, it starts breaking down. The nail in the coffin is Vasir's condemnation. And I eventually romance Jack too. Heh

edit: I like to think this old promo of Jack is about all of this.. where she talks about being pissed off about Shepard's "patience"...

that...got me all hot and bothered for some Jack...and I'm well...you see my avatar...

[Han Shot First]

eyezonlyii wrote...

 What I can't understand is those people who claim their Shepard would never go back to the Alliance. Why not? He/she joined the Alliance in the first place. Of all the things you CAN customize about Shepard, the one thing you can't is that the Alliance is part of them.

Shepard also didn't just join the Alliance military, he is career military. He's a lifer.

Of course players can head canon whatever they like, but IMO it just doesn't make much sense given Shepard's backstory for him (or her) not to bleed Alliance blue.

A Shepard that hates the Alliance is a bit like having a character that is the CEO of a multinational Corporation who hates capitalism.

[Han Shot First]

StreetMagic wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

 What I can't understand is those people who claim their Shepard would never go back to the Alliance. Why not? He/she joined the Alliance in the first place. Of all the things you CAN customize about Shepard, the one thing you can't is that the Alliance is part of them.

Shepard also didn't just join the Alliance military, he is career military. He's a lifer.

Of course players can head canon whatever they like, but IMO it just doesn't make much sense given Shepard's backstory for him (or her) not to bleed Alliance blue.

A Shepard that hates the Alliance is a bit like having a character that is the CEO of a multinational Corporation who hates capitalism.

"Bleeds alliance blue"? lmao. Ashley asks why you join the Alliance in ME1. Only Paragon answers in that sort of patriotic tone you're trying to project. The neutral option is just that Shepard wanted to get away from Earth or to explore. The Renegade option is that he just wants action and to put bullets in people. It all depends.

By bleeding Alliance blue I mean loyalty to the organization, not necessarily being motivated by Earth-centric patriotism. As an example you can find plenty of lifers in modern day military organizations who originally joined for similar reasons (travel, adventure, career training, money for college, ect) who are also totally committed to that organization. You have to be if you are going to do more than one tour, which Shepard has.

[Nerevar-as]

I played a bit as a Shepard friendly with Cerberus (not a Sole Survivor), and in Mars I find out I told TIM to GTFA after giving him the intact Collector Base.

Sorry? How does that make any sense? Although for that matter, if you don´t do Arrival and accept the Council´s offer of back to Specter, you end up under arrest several months despite doing nothing illegal. If they say care is shown in the details, writing wise there wasn´t much in ME2&3 main plot wise.

[wright1978]

StreetMagic wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

By bleeding Alliance blue I mean loyalty to the organization, not necessarily being motivated by Earth-centric patriotism. As an example you can find plenty of lifers in modern day military organizations who originally joined for similar reasons (travel, adventure, career training, money for college, ect) who are also totally committed to that organization. You have to be if you are going to do more than one tour, which Shepard has.

Fair enough.

 That said, I don't think Bioware has even made up their mind about any of these organizations or what type of military culture they want to convey for Shepard. They outright put you in Cerberus in the second game - and you could roleplay "liking" your stay there and being pissed at the Alliance. Those were actual options, funnily enough. They only change these allegiances because they can't make up their mind what story they're trying to tell. One day, this is popular. The next day, it's another thing. I don't think there's any definitive way to explain Shepard in light of all of this. It's kind of a mess.

Hell, even the Alliance used to be "red". Not blue. Even that isn't consistent.

That's my issue with ME3. ME2 allows the player outright options to show their shep had developed hostility towards the alliance and a desire not to return to that uniform/dog-tags etc. My Shep very much came back from death with the veil torn from his eyes regarding the Alliance. I was annoyed as anything that ME3 just plain ignores that and rather than follow the design path of ME2(where Shep can differing levels of amicableness in his relationship with TIM etc), instead opts for a railroaded auto-idiot who loves the taste of Alliance boot polish on his tongue.

[nos_astra]

wright1978 wrote...
That's my issue with ME3. ME2 allows the player outright options to show their shep had developed hostility towards the alliance and a desire not to return to that uniform/dog-tags etc. My Shep very much came back from death with the veil torn from his eyes regarding the Alliance. I was annoyed as anything that ME3 just plain ignores that and rather than follow the design path of ME2(where Shep can differing levels of amicableness in his relationship with TIM etc), instead opts for a railroaded auto-idiot who loves the taste of Alliance boot polish on his tongue.

I don't see much of a difference between the railroaded auto-idiot of ME2 and the railroaded auto-idiot of ME3. One of the games gave you a choice between two flavors of dumb: "I'm a very special snowflake so y u no luv me? you leave me no choice but to side with Cerberus QQ"-paragon and "LOL 2 COOL 4 U"-renegade, that's it.

Modifié par klarabella, 20 décembre 2013 - 03:32 .

[David7204]

You're laughable, klarabella. You should try not presenting your ridiculous little delusions as evidence. You've clearly demonstrated how much the idea of heroism bothers you. An obvious and transparent case of self-projection. Sadly for you, there's no actual merit in it.

Modifié par David7204, 20 décembre 2013 - 03:35 .

[DeinonSlayer]

David7204 wrote...

You're laughable, klarabella. You should try not presenting your ridiculous little delusions as evidence. You've clearly demonstrated how much the idea of HEROISM ™ bothers you. An obvious and transparent case of self-projection. Sadly for you, there's no actual merit in it.

*takes a drink*

Do you practice scoffing in front of a mirror?

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 20 décembre 2013 - 03:51 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

David7204 wrote...

You're laughable, klarabella. You should try not presenting your ridiculous little delusions as evidence. You've clearly demonstrated how much the idea of HEROISM ™ bothers you. An obvious and transparent case of self-projection. Sadly for you, there's no actual merit in it.

*takes a drink*

Do you practice scoffing in front of a mirror?

Almost self-parody?

[KaiserShep]

David7204 wrote...

You're laughable, klarabella. You should try not presenting your ridiculous little delusions as evidence. You've clearly demonstrated how much the idea of heroism bothers you. An obvious and transparent case of self-projection. Sadly for you, there's no actual merit in it.

Something something something darkside. Something something something complete.

[DeinonSlayer]

I feel that post deserves some kind of award. It is my honor to present the Monocle of Indignation:

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 20 décembre 2013 - 04:28 .

[jtav]

The previous games give Shep plenty of reasons to become cynical regarding the Alliance and for Shepard to be forcibly happy is greatly to the detriment of RP. Yes, Shep must be Alliance for the sake of the plot, but a little grumbling and snark wouldn't come amiss.