891 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia Nox]

@Grand Admiral Cheesecake: Hello, that's what surface dwarves are for.

[Senya]

thetinyevil wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Veruin wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Not without permission from the Grand Cleric

I think the knight commander still has to be the one to invoke the right in the first place.

Only after the Grand Cleric approves of it.... unless if the Grand Cleric has been assasinated then the Knight-Commander has the right to invoke the R.o.A.

So Anders is to blame from what happened in Kirkwall

No Meredith had already called for the right of Annullment from Divine. So it was going to happen anyway Anders just gave the mages a chance to fight back instead of them waking up one more with the templars going room to room killing all the mages.

I highly doubt the Divine would have given Meredith permission. Anders didn't help the Mages. He made sure that many would die or be possessed. He wanted Meredith to invoke the Right. He'd sacrifice every Mage in the Circle for his ideals. He was too fixated on an ideal, like a Spirit or Demon. In the end, he was just an Abomination, a sad fate for himself and everyone around him.

[Rebel Wolf]

"And come the reckoning, when crimes will be righted and legacy restored, not during our lives, or those of our kin, but next ages, when magic will rise!" Fringe texts of the Circle, 4:60 Black.

Modifié par Rebel Wolf, 19 décembre 2013 - 11:08 .

[thetinyevil]

almostinsane99 wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Veruin wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Not without permission from the Grand Cleric

I think the knight commander still has to be the one to invoke the right in the first place.

Only after the Grand Cleric approves of it.... unless if the Grand Cleric has been assasinated then the Knight-Commander has the right to invoke the R.o.A.

So Anders is to blame from what happened in Kirkwall

No Meredith had already called for the right of Annullment from Divine. So it was going to happen anyway Anders just gave the mages a chance to fight back instead of them waking up one more with the templars going room to room killing all the mages.

I highly doubt the Divine would have given Meredith permission. Anders didn't help the Mages. He made sure that many would die or be possessed. He wanted Meredith to invoke the Right. He'd sacrifice every Mage in the Circle for his ideals. He was too fixated on an ideal, like a Spirit or Demon. In the end, he was just an Abomination, a sad fate for himself and everyone around him.

I actually don't doubt that the Divine would have given Merdith premission for the Annullment. Given that she had already sent an agent to investigate the mages and not the templars. Also you have to take in to considerations what kind of reports Meredith would have sent to the Divine about the circle. You know telling her that there are blood mages and abomantions in every corner. I also doubt Meredith would have allowed any other reports through that would have conterdicted what was in her reports. So it is completely possible that the Divine would have allowed Meredith to inact the R.O.A.

Modifié par thetinyevil, 19 décembre 2013 - 11:11 .

[AresKeith]

thetinyevil wrote...

No Meredith had already called for the right of Annullment from Divine. So it was going to happen anyway Anders just gave the mages a chance to fight back instead of them waking up one more with the templars going room to room killing all the mages.

Ummm No, Meredith was going to ask the Grand Cleric for permission to call the RoA. The Divine had nothing to do with it

And Anders didn't give the mages a chance to fight back, most of them didn't even want to fight. Anders doesn't care for the mages all he care for is starting a war

[thetinyevil]

AresKeith wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

No Meredith had already called for the right of Annullment from Divine. So it was going to happen anyway Anders just gave the mages a chance to fight back instead of them waking up one more with the templars going room to room killing all the mages.

Ummm No, Meredith was going to ask the Grand Cleric for permission to call the RoA. The Divine had nothing to do with it

And Anders didn't give the mages a chance to fight back, most of them didn't even want to fight. Anders doesn't care for the mages all he care for is starting a war

Talk to Karras in the Gallow Court Yard. He tells you that Meredith asked the Divine for the R.O.A. And the P.O.S seemed to be sure that permission would have been given. And seen how weak the Divine is in Asunder she would have granted the R.O.A.

[AresKeith]

thetinyevil wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

No Meredith had already called for the right of Annullment from Divine. So it was going to happen anyway Anders just gave the mages a chance to fight back instead of them waking up one more with the templars going room to room killing all the mages.

Ummm No, Meredith was going to ask the Grand Cleric for permission to call the RoA. The Divine had nothing to do with it

And Anders didn't give the mages a chance to fight back, most of them didn't even want to fight. Anders doesn't care for the mages all he care for is starting a war

Talk to Karras in the Gallow Court Yard. He tells you that Meredith asked the Divine for the R.O.A. And the P.O.S seemed to be sure that permission would have been given. And seen how weak the Divine is in Asunder she would have granted the R.O.A.

Except that she didn't grant Meredith permission, there would've been no reason for her to got to the Chantry to ask the Grand Cleric if the Divine are said yes

[thetinyevil]

AresKeith wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

No Meredith had already called for the right of Annullment from Divine. So it was going to happen anyway Anders just gave the mages a chance to fight back instead of them waking up one more with the templars going room to room killing all the mages.

Ummm No, Meredith was going to ask the Grand Cleric for permission to call the RoA. The Divine had nothing to do with it

And Anders didn't give the mages a chance to fight back, most of them didn't even want to fight. Anders doesn't care for the mages all he care for is starting a war

Talk to Karras in the Gallow Court Yard. He tells you that Meredith asked the Divine for the R.O.A. And the P.O.S seemed to be sure that permission would have been given. And seen how weak the Divine is in Asunder she would have granted the R.O.A.

Except that she didn't grant Meredith permission, there would've been no reason for her to got to the Chantry to ask the Grand Cleric if the Divine are said yes

Meredith never went ot Elthina. She just went over her head to the Divine. If you are refuring to when they were all outside the Chantry when it went boom well they were there because Orsino was going to the Grand Cleric to make Meredith back off.

[AresKeith]

thetinyevil wrote...

Meredith never went ot Elthina. She just went over her head to the Divine. If you are refuring to when they were all outside the Chantry when it went boom well they were there because Orsino was going to the Grand Cleric to make Meredith back off.

Your right about that part, but Meredith still didn't get permission to the ROA from the Divine. She tried to but didn't

[Senya]

thetinyevil wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Veruin wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Not without permission from the Grand Cleric

I think the knight commander still has to be the one to invoke the right in the first place.

Only after the Grand Cleric approves of it.... unless if the Grand Cleric has been assasinated then the Knight-Commander has the right to invoke the R.o.A.

So Anders is to blame from what happened in Kirkwall

No Meredith had already called for the right of Annullment from Divine. So it was going to happen anyway Anders just gave the mages a chance to fight back instead of them waking up one more with the templars going room to room killing all the mages.

I highly doubt the Divine would have given Meredith permission. Anders didn't help the Mages. He made sure that many would die or be possessed. He wanted Meredith to invoke the Right. He'd sacrifice every Mage in the Circle for his ideals. He was too fixated on an ideal, like a Spirit or Demon. In the end, he was just an Abomination, a sad fate for himself and everyone around him.

I actually don't doubt that the Divine would have given Merdith premission for the Annullment. Given that she had already sent an agent to investigate the mages and not the templars. Also you have to take in to considerations what kind of reports Meredith would have sent to the Divine about the circle. You know telling her that there are blood mages and abomantions in every corner. I also doubt Meredith would have allowed any other reports through that would have conterdicted what was in her reports. So it is completely possible that the Divine would have allowed Meredith to inact the R.O.A.

I doubt she could stop the Grand Cleric' s correspondence. And sending agents to investigate seems to imply she wants accept her word alone. Meredith accused the Circle, Leliana was sent to see if she was telling the truth. She couldn't just ignore the claims given that could endanger innocents. It was either investigate or take Meredith' s statement as true. She chose the former.

[Lotion Soronarr]

SgtSteel91 wrote...
Well the Right of Annulment has been done 17 times in the last 700 years it was started. That's about an Annulment and killing every mage in a Circle every 41 years.

You are forgetting that those are individual Circles. And there are many of them.
Which in the grand scheme of things means, that that number is actually low. Because it's a global number for basicly the whole world.

So, no, the average mage has a normal lifespan.

[thetinyevil]

almostinsane99 wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Veruin wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Not without permission from the Grand Cleric

I think the knight commander still has to be the one to invoke the right in the first place.

Only after the Grand Cleric approves of it.... unless if the Grand Cleric has been assasinated then the Knight-Commander has the right to invoke the R.o.A.

So Anders is to blame from what happened in Kirkwall

No Meredith had already called for the right of Annullment from Divine. So it was going to happen anyway Anders just gave the mages a chance to fight back instead of them waking up one more with the templars going room to room killing all the mages.

I highly doubt the Divine would have given Meredith permission. Anders didn't help the Mages. He made sure that many would die or be possessed. He wanted Meredith to invoke the Right. He'd sacrifice every Mage in the Circle for his ideals. He was too fixated on an ideal, like a Spirit or Demon. In the end, he was just an Abomination, a sad fate for himself and everyone around him.

I actually don't doubt that the Divine would have given Merdith premission for the Annullment. Given that she had already sent an agent to investigate the mages and not the templars. Also you have to take in to considerations what kind of reports Meredith would have sent to the Divine about the circle. You know telling her that there are blood mages and abomantions in every corner. I also doubt Meredith would have allowed any other reports through that would have conterdicted what was in her reports. So it is completely possible that the Divine would have allowed Meredith to inact the R.O.A.

I doubt she could stop the Grand Cleric' s correspondence. And sending agents to investigate seems to imply she wants accept her word alone. Meredith accused the Circle, Leliana was sent to see if she was telling the truth. She couldn't just ignore the claims given that could endanger innocents. It was either investigate or take Meredith' s statement as true. She chose the former.

We are going to have to agree to disagree. Yes I doubt she could stop the Grand Cleric's correspondence but that doesn't mean she couldn't influnce it. Given that Elthian's stance was to stand around with her thumb up her ass and not do anything it probably didn't help the mages. Also all of Leliana dialog was pretty much blame the mages and the fact that the Divine was considering calling an Exlated March on Kirkwall it isn't to farfected she would settle for a R.O.A instead.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Lord Raijin wrote...
David Gaider indicated on another thread that after the Chantry was blown up Meredith invoking the R.o.A was perfectly legal.

Makes sense. Lacking any local higher authority, and with waiting for a reply (which could take weeks or months) being possibly disastrous and out of the question, it is not uncommon for the local commander to have full command.

Circumstances dictate different reponse and solutions.

I can't seem to find the thread, but he clearly said that she was legally bound to invoke the Right now that Elthina is dead.

You are not remembering correctly.
She has a legal right to invoke it, but she wasn't boud to do anything. In fact, DG said her annulment was borderline legal and if she survived, she would have been in a lot of trouble.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 19 décembre 2013 - 11:57 .

[Senya]

thetinyevil wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Veruin wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Not without permission from the Grand Cleric

I think the knight commander still has to be the one to invoke the right in the first place.

Only after the Grand Cleric approves of it.... unless if the Grand Cleric has been assasinated then the Knight-Commander has the right to invoke the R.o.A.

So Anders is to blame from what happened in Kirkwall

No Meredith had already called for the right of Annullment from Divine. So it was going to happen anyway Anders just gave the mages a chance to fight back instead of them waking up one more with the templars going room to room killing all the mages.

I highly doubt the Divine would have given Meredith permission. Anders didn't help the Mages. He made sure that many would die or be possessed. He wanted Meredith to invoke the Right. He'd sacrifice every Mage in the Circle for his ideals. He was too fixated on an ideal, like a Spirit or Demon. In the end, he was just an Abomination, a sad fate for himself and everyone around him.

I actually don't doubt that the Divine would have given Merdith premission for the Annullment. Given that she had already sent an agent to investigate the mages and not the templars. Also you have to take in to considerations what kind of reports Meredith would have sent to the Divine about the circle. You know telling her that there are blood mages and abomantions in every corner. I also doubt Meredith would have allowed any other reports through that would have conterdicted what was in her reports. So it is completely possible that the Divine would have allowed Meredith to inact the R.O.A.

I doubt she could stop the Grand Cleric' s correspondence. And sending agents to investigate seems to imply she wants accept her word alone. Meredith accused the Circle, Leliana was sent to see if she was telling the truth. She couldn't just ignore the claims given that could endanger innocents. It was either investigate or take Meredith' s statement as true. She chose the former.

We are going to have to agree to disagree. Yes I doubt she could stop the Grand Cleric's correspondence but that doesn't mean she couldn't influnce it. Given that Elthian's stance was to stand around with her thumb up her ass and not do anything it probably didn't help the mages. Also all of Leliana dialog was pretty much blame the mages and the fact that the Divine was considering calling an Exlated March on Kirkwall it isn't to farfected she would settle for a R.O.A instead.

The Resolutionists, you mean, who did appear.  Perhaps a foreshadowing of the third party behind the Veil Tear in the third game.

And I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[Senya]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...
David Gaider indicated on another thread that after the Chantry was blown up Meredith invoking the R.o.A was perfectly legal.

Makes sense. Lacking any local higher authority, and with waiting for a reply (which could take weeks or months) being possibly disastrous and out of the question, it is not uncommon for the local commander to have full command.

Circumstances dictate different reponse and solutions.

He forgot to add that David Gaider said Meredith would have still face an inquiry if she had lived. 

Modifié par almostinsane99, 19 décembre 2013 - 11:58 .

[TK514]

almostinsane99 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...
David Gaider indicated on another thread that after the Chantry was blown up Meredith invoking the R.o.A was perfectly legal.

Makes sense. Lacking any local higher authority, and with waiting for a reply (which could take weeks or months) being possibly disastrous and out of the question, it is not uncommon for the local commander to have full command.

Circumstances dictate different reponse and solutions.

He forgot to add that David Gaider said Meredith would have still face an inquiry if she had lived. 

"It is often easier to ask forgiveness than permission"

With no mages or dissenters around to counter her version of events, it's not hard to imagine that this 'court martial' would have exonerated her.

[thetinyevil]

TK514 wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...
David Gaider indicated on another thread that after the Chantry was blown up Meredith invoking the R.o.A was perfectly legal.

Makes sense. Lacking any local higher authority, and with waiting for a reply (which could take weeks or months) being possibly disastrous and out of the question, it is not uncommon for the local commander to have full command.

Circumstances dictate different reponse and solutions.

He forgot to add that David Gaider said Meredith would have still face an inquiry if she had lived. 

"It is often easier to ask forgiveness than permission"

With no mages or dissenters around to counter her version of events, it's not hard to imagine that this 'court martial' would have exonerated her.

Don't forget the court would have most likely been made up of templars and priest who seen mages the same way she did: creatures that are the sorce of all evil in the world and need to be kept in a deep dark whole until they are needed to heal a king or other nobiltiy or repell the Qunari then dumped right back in their dark little whole.

[EmperorSahlertz]

thetinyevil wrote...

TK514 wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...
David Gaider indicated on another thread that after the Chantry was blown up Meredith invoking the R.o.A was perfectly legal.

Makes sense. Lacking any local higher authority, and with waiting for a reply (which could take weeks or months) being possibly disastrous and out of the question, it is not uncommon for the local commander to have full command.

Circumstances dictate different reponse and solutions.

He forgot to add that David Gaider said Meredith would have still face an inquiry if she had lived. 

"It is often easier to ask forgiveness than permission"

With no mages or dissenters around to counter her version of events, it's not hard to imagine that this 'court martial' would have exonerated her.

Don't forget the court would have most likely been made up of templars and priest who seen mages the same way she did: creatures that are the sorce of all evil in the world and need to be kept in a deep dark whole until they are needed to heal a king or other nobiltiy or repell the Qunari then dumped right back in their dark little whole.

That is not how the general Chantry sister, or Templar for that matter, see mages though...

[The Elder King]

@thetinyevil: that's an exaggeration. And not every templar or priest have the same opinion of Meredith. Even Cullen, which isn't exactly a mage lover, believe that the situation wasn't extreme enough to call an Annulment. So there are chances that Meredith would've been found guilty.

[thetinyevil]

Really? The same Cullen who wanted to used the Tranquil Solution. The same one who wanted the mages and templars who went against Meredith tortured and executed. He was as bad as Meredith. The majority of Clergy and Templars see mages as evil curesed creates that either need to be controlled or destroyed.

Modifié par thetinyevil, 20 décembre 2013 - 12:15 .

[The Elder King]

thetinyevil wrote...

Really? Since when?

For example, if the Divine had the same opinion of Meredith, she wouldnt have let the mages leave the Chantry
Not to mention that you stated that templars/priests see mages as the source of all evil, which is an exaggeration. Or do you seriously believe that most of those people believe mages are the source of all evil?

Modifié par hhh89, 20 décembre 2013 - 12:17 .

[thetinyevil]

What part are you talking about. Is this from Asunder?

[TK514]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

TK514 wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...
David Gaider indicated on another thread that after the Chantry was blown up Meredith invoking the R.o.A was perfectly legal.

Makes sense. Lacking any local higher authority, and with waiting for a reply (which could take weeks or months) being possibly disastrous and out of the question, it is not uncommon for the local commander to have full command.

Circumstances dictate different reponse and solutions.

He forgot to add that David Gaider said Meredith would have still face an inquiry if she had lived. 

"It is often easier to ask forgiveness than permission"

With no mages or dissenters around to counter her version of events, it's not hard to imagine that this 'court martial' would have exonerated her.

Don't forget the court would have most likely been made up of templars and priest who seen mages the same way she did: creatures that are the sorce of all evil in the world and need to be kept in a deep dark whole until they are needed to heal a king or other nobiltiy or repell the Qunari then dumped right back in their dark little whole.

That is not how the general Chantry sister, or Templar for that matter, see mages though...

Agreed.  That's not even remotely how the Chantry views Mages.  Magic is unequivocably called a gift of the Maker to his children, and while mankind can abuse such a gift (maleficarum), humanity, and mages, are not inherently evil.

If the Chantry, and the individuals who made up its branches, truly viewed mages as the source of all evil in the world, there would be a lot fewer mages overall, and a lot more Tranquil as a percentage of Mages.  They also wouldn't have internal laws specifically protecting the rights of mages and limiting Templar power, which they do.

The Chantry's view of Mages is, and has always been that they need to be contained to prevent abuse, and protected from themselves and others.

[The Elder King]

thetinyevil wrote...

Really? The same Cullen who wanted to used the Tranquil Solution. The same one who wanted the mages and templars who went against Meredith tortured and executed. He was as bad as Meredith. The majority of Clergy and Templars see mages as evil curesed creates that either need to be controlled or destroyed.

You haven't played or watched the templar side of DA2 final part, have you?
He believed the situation didn't require an Annulment. Check it out if you wish.

[The Elder King]

thetinyevil wrote...

What part are you talking about. Is this from Asunder?

Yes.