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[Master Warder Z_]

hhh89 wrote...

Cullen stated this earlier. There were mages who surrendered and Cullen goes against Meredith, that wants them killed. Meredith ask Cullened if he was willing to be responsible for what would've happened if those mages would turn our to be blood mages, and Cullen said yes, because he believes that this is what a templar should do. Or something similar.

He also reverses that position at the first sign of either the Champion actively supporting their deaths or being impartial and letting the Knight Commander's Order be followed.

So ultimately? His sentiment only went as deep as words and rightfully so.

You can't candy coat a right of annullment, it shouldn't be a pick and choose option.

Its an "every one there must die for the betterment of the world" option.

[EmperorSahlertz]

thetinyevil wrote...

Veruin wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

See what I said h to the double h? Can't really work with blind zealotry like that.

Same could be said for you. You just as blindly zealous.

I've yet to see Emperor slander people simply because he doesn't like them.

Neither have I. But this has nothing to do with the the comment. Also unlike Emperor if I am wrong I will admit it and I will consider what other people say. 

You havn't exactly exhibited this quality in this thread... And I gladly listen to those I disagree with. If I feel they have something worthwhile to say. I listen to and respect both Julian and Eluvianx greatly, but I can't remember the last time we agreed on something regarding Thedosian politics.

[thetinyevil]

hhh89 wrote...

Cullen stated this earlier. There were mages who surrendered and Cullen goes against Meredith, that wants them killed. Meredith ask Cullened if he was willing to be responsible for what would've happened if those mages would turn our to be blood mages, and Cullen said yes, because he believes that this is what a templar should do. Or something similar.

He knew they were going to be made tranquil. So even if they were blood mages it wouldn't have mattered. Gaider stated that any mage that isn't killed in an annullment are made tranquil so it would have been merciful just to kill them.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

thetinyevil wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@thetinyevil: I'm not going to debate again on characters. Even considering your two 'approved' characters, we have four (with Cullen, that disagreed with Meredith on the RoA and Justinia) characters that shown different opinions about Meredith's. So not every templars and priests would be okay with what Meredith did. Which means you were wrong (other than the face that Gaider stated that Meredith would've probably be punished for what she did).

A finger waging isn't much of punishment. Cullen disagreed with Meredith only after pretty much every mage was dead and probably only said no because he didn't want an actually challanage by fighting Hawke. He prefers fights against people he can reder helpless butcher to his hearts content. 

Cullen doesn't try to kill helpless mages, he even defies the knight commander about the surrendering mages if Hawke says they should live

Modifié par Threat300, 20 décembre 2013 - 01:23 .

[thetinyevil]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

Veruin wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

See what I said h to the double h? Can't really work with blind zealotry like that.

Same could be said for you. You just as blindly zealous.

I've yet to see Emperor slander people simply because he doesn't like them.

Neither have I. But this has nothing to do with the the comment. Also unlike Emperor if I am wrong I will admit it and I will consider what other people say. 

You havn't exactly exhibited this quality in this thread... And I gladly listen to those I disagree with. If I feel they have something worthwhile to say. I listen to and respect both Julian and Eluvianx greatly, but I can't remember the last time we agreed on something regarding Thedosian politics.

When I am wrong I admit it. I just did actually. I was wrong about Leliana. But if I don't think I'm wrong I won't change my option.

[thetinyevil]

Threat300 wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@thetinyevil: I'm not going to debate again on characters. Even considering your two 'approved' characters, we have four (with Cullen, that disagreed with Meredith on the RoA and Justinia) characters that shown different opinions about Meredith's. So not every templars and priests would be okay with what Meredith did. Which means you were wrong (other than the face that Gaider stated that Meredith would've probably be punished for what she did).

A finger waging isn't much of punishment. Cullen disagreed with Meredith only after pretty much every mage was dead and probably only said no because he didn't want an actually challanage by fighting Hawke. He prefers fights against people he can reder helpless butcher to his hearts content. 

Cullen doesn't try to kill helpless mages, he even defies the knight commander about the surrendering mages if Hawke says they should live

Like Master Z said. The words were only that words. If Hawke agrees with Meredith or stays doesn't have an opion he kills them.

[Master Warder Z_]

thetinyevil wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Cullen stated this earlier. There were mages who surrendered and Cullen goes against Meredith, that wants them killed. Meredith ask Cullened if he was willing to be responsible for what would've happened if those mages would turn our to be blood mages, and Cullen said yes, because he believes that this is what a templar should do. Or something similar.

He knew they were going to be made tranquil. So even if they were blood mages it wouldn't have mattered. Gaider stated that any mage that isn't killed in an annullment are made tranquil so it would have been merciful just to kill them.

Mind sourcing that bit of information?

[SgtSteel91]

But if Hawke sides with the Mages then Cullen lets him go too. With mages like Merrill, Bethany if she's in the Circle, and Anders if they live at the end.

Modifié par SgtSteel91, 20 décembre 2013 - 01:29 .

[Master Warder Z_]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

But if Hawke sides with the Mages then Cullen lets him go too.

after he just cut through dozens of templars, a harvester and then red lyrium empowered meridith.

...That wasn't a support of policy it was a survival instinct.

[SgtSteel91]

Master Warder Z wrote...

SgtSteel91 wrote...

But if Hawke sides with the Mages then Cullen lets him go too.

after he just cut through dozens of templars, a harvester and then red lyrium empowered meridith.

...That wasn't a support of policy it was a survival instinct.

But would Hawke be a criminal if it was ruled that Meredith was calling the Annulment with unjustified reasons?

[Master Warder Z_]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

SgtSteel91 wrote...

But if Hawke sides with the Mages then Cullen lets him go too.

after he just cut through dozens of templars, a harvester and then red lyrium empowered meridith.

...That wasn't a support of policy it was a survival instinct.

But would Hawke be a criminal if it was ruled that Meredith was calling the Annulment with unjustified reasons?

Considering that by the time of Asunder no one was stating anything like that i presume that no one even considered that.

Furthermore you could agrue that circle needed to be anulled.

Also you can't just overlook dozens of murders even if the order given that resulted in those deaths was considered criminal.

Its like killing your entire unit when your CO issues an illegal order.

Your still going to the brig.

[thetinyevil]

Master Warder Z wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Cullen stated this earlier. There were mages who surrendered and Cullen goes against Meredith, that wants them killed. Meredith ask Cullened if he was willing to be responsible for what would've happened if those mages would turn our to be blood mages, and Cullen said yes, because he believes that this is what a templar should do. Or something similar.

He knew they were going to be made tranquil. So even if they were blood mages it wouldn't have mattered. Gaider stated that any mage that isn't killed in an annullment are made tranquil so it would have been merciful just to kill them.

Mind sourcing that bit of information?

Can't find it but I do remember DG stating that mages who survive the R.O.A are made tranquil no matter their age or if they passed their harrowing or not.

[Lord Raijin]

thetinyevil wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Cullen stated this earlier. There were mages who surrendered and Cullen goes against Meredith, that wants them killed. Meredith ask Cullened if he was willing to be responsible for what would've happened if those mages would turn our to be blood mages, and Cullen said yes, because he believes that this is what a templar should do. Or something similar.

He knew they were going to be made tranquil. So even if they were blood mages it wouldn't have mattered. Gaider stated that any mage that isn't killed in an annullment are made tranquil so it would have been merciful just to kill them.

I don't remember David saying anything in that nature.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 20 décembre 2013 - 01:45 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Gaider was musing that he would imagine that if a mage were to somehow survive "AN" annulment (not the one in Kirkwall specifically), that the mage would probably be made Tranquil. He didn't really go into much detail as I recall wether that was law, the norm or just himself speculating (since he probably havn't bothered himself with comming up with the answer to this question).

[Lord Raijin]

I can only find this thread that David participated in regarding to the Rite of Tranqulity.

http://social.biowar...ex/7058889&lf=8


edited:

and this http://social.biowar...ex/6901812&lf=8

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 20 décembre 2013 - 01:55 .

[Master Warder Z_]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Gaider was musing that he would imagine that if a mage were to somehow survive "AN" annulment (not the one in Kirkwall specifically), that the mage would probably be made Tranquil. He didn't really go into much detail as I recall wether that was law, the norm or just himself speculating (since he probably havn't bothered himself with comming up with the answer to this question).

So at best that position is just speculation then?

[thetinyevil]

Lord Raijin wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Cullen stated this earlier. There were mages who surrendered and Cullen goes against Meredith, that wants them killed. Meredith ask Cullened if he was willing to be responsible for what would've happened if those mages would turn our to be blood mages, and Cullen said yes, because he believes that this is what a templar should do. Or something similar.

He knew they were going to be made tranquil. So even if they were blood mages it wouldn't have mattered. Gaider stated that any mage that isn't killed in an annullment are made tranquil so it would have been merciful just to kill them.

I don't remember David saying anything in that nature.

Still can't find it and I don't want to go through every page on Annulment here. I read it so believe me or don't, I don't care. 

[Master Warder Z_]

thetinyevil wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Cullen stated this earlier. There were mages who surrendered and Cullen goes against Meredith, that wants them killed. Meredith ask Cullened if he was willing to be responsible for what would've happened if those mages would turn our to be blood mages, and Cullen said yes, because he believes that this is what a templar should do. Or something similar.

He knew they were going to be made tranquil. So even if they were blood mages it wouldn't have mattered. Gaider stated that any mage that isn't killed in an annullment are made tranquil so it would have been merciful just to kill them.

I don't remember David saying anything in that nature.

Still can't find it and I don't want to go through every page on Annulment here. I read it so believe me or don't, I don't care. 

Good! Because i don't!

[EmperorSahlertz]

Master Warder Z wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Gaider was musing that he would imagine that if a mage were to somehow survive "AN" annulment (not the one in Kirkwall specifically), that the mage would probably be made Tranquil. He didn't really go into much detail as I recall wether that was law, the norm or just himself speculating (since he probably havn't bothered himself with comming up with the answer to this question).

So at best that position is just speculation then?

Well... It would be speculation from the creator of the lore he is specualting about. So it does carry some weight.

[Master Warder Z_]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Gaider was musing that he would imagine that if a mage were to somehow survive "AN" annulment (not the one in Kirkwall specifically), that the mage would probably be made Tranquil. He didn't really go into much detail as I recall wether that was law, the norm or just himself speculating (since he probably havn't bothered himself with comming up with the answer to this question).

So at best that position is just speculation then?

Well... It would be speculation from the creator of the lore he is specualting about. So it does carry some weight.

If it actually occured...

[EmperorSahlertz]

Oh it did. I was in the discussion. I can't be bothered with finding a years old forum post though. So you can either take my word for it, or leave it.

[SgtSteel91]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Also you can't just overlook dozens of murders even if the order given that resulted in those deaths was considered criminal.

Its like killing your entire unit when your CO issues an illegal order.

Your still going to the brig.

I don't know why, but for some reason I think that this just seems backwards and wrong to me. I just don't think Hawke was wrong trying to stop Meredith if they believed that she calling the Annulment for unjsutified reasons. But if there was a Hawke who thought that the Annulemnt was justified as a preemptive measure then I guess he's not wrong either?

I think I said in this thread that you and I don't exactly see eye to eye so whatever I guess.

Modifié par SgtSteel91, 20 décembre 2013 - 02:14 .

[Master Warder Z_]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Oh it did. I was in the discussion. I can't be bothered with finding a years old forum post though. So you can either take my word for it, or leave it.

That latter suits me better.

And considering i have been pretty active in the DA forums for years now and don't recall it sort of doesn't impress upon me it's validity.

[Master Warder Z_]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Also you can't just overlook dozens of murders even if the order given that resulted in those deaths was considered criminal.

Its like killing your entire unit when your CO issues an illegal order.

Your still going to the brig.

I don't know why, but for some reason I think that this just seems backwards and wrong to me. I just don't think Hawke was wrong trying to stop Meredith if they believed that she calling the Annulment for unjsutified reasons. But if there was a Hawke who thought that the Annulemnt was justified as a preemptive measure then I guess he's not wrong either?

I think I said in this thread that you and I don't exactly see eye to eye so whatever I guess.

Morally wrong or legally wrong?

As in most cases those two things are not the same.

You may find it disgusting that a slaver is transporting his cargo through out the countryside, but if the law supports the slave trade then murdering him and freeing his cargo is still considered murder and theft.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Oh it did. I was in the discussion. I can't be bothered with finding a years old forum post though. So you can either take my word for it, or leave it.

David Gaider wrote...

The issue is this:

By the time the Right of Annulment is invoked, the tower in question has moved beyond the possibility of mages being brought under control enough that Tranquility would even be possible. It's possible some mages might survive the initial assault, but the order cannot be "take any prisoners you can" simply because by that point a mage might have been corrupted and become a blood mage... something which cannot be detected under normal circumstances. Thus capturing them becomes a means for them to escape the quarantine.

So therefore the order is "kill everyone". At the end of the day, if any mages are still alive for whatever reason... then, yes, I imagine they could theroretically be made Tranquil as opposed to executed outright.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 20 décembre 2013 - 02:21 .