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[Toasted Llama]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Chantry rules and will rule this as long they won't be brutally overthrown you should figure answer now after 2 games and how chantry deal with things and what that leads to...

Chantry won't allow on such things and before that every will be allowed to learn it is long time chantry want power and are fanatics so they will do everything to keep their position.

There is no no-opresive system templars and non-mages want safety when they don't care about mages and often hate them for being different so if they will end in charge they will abuse (watch circles) and mages want freedom what means that they will be great danger for world and they will have to protect themselves to keep that position because non-mages will want take it.So deal with that humans are too di*** to not abuse mages when get power to rule them and mages freedom will destroy world or end like teviner. Simple peoples hate others for smaller things and differences and it will never end. 

If im biased because well i mock every idea mages should huge with templars and then we will have eternal peace or mock that same ideas that was and didn't worked well yes then im biased.

I don't hate mages i m just telling truth they are ticking bombs and threat and i will eliminate every threat whether it is not mage or not.you are right about that magic helped shape dragon age universe but it did it in very negative way magic provided very littlle and destroyed civilizations and caused many rly many problems for peoples living in thedas.Magic is curse why simple because it provides a little for user and well takes so much that it isn't even for comparison/It is like yay you can heal your grandma minor injuries nay you can also burn your city at any moment of your life because of demons there is good reason why mages in dragon age ended as example of this .

Well evil is rather matter of your own opinion and i rly don't care about morality all i care is corruption which isn't good for business and their incompetence that causes mora and more trobules in practice they are nothing more than sadists who try explain kicking dogs as necessary evil and keeping victims alive with fu*** morality which often is hypocrisy ultimately thead lead to many magical incydents that caused damage im not sadist im simple get rid of danger quickly killing mages and finally remove danger of abomnations and demons from the world. 

I don't think that magic is "evil" that same for blood magic ,i am not interested in chantry twisted morals not in any other morals.Simple all i care it is me and effectiveness... I see that in that way

Mages-many destructive incidents caused by them some of them are on global scale-world destruction is bad for my business-their circles absorb money and time and incidents are still being continued- kill mages remove the threat save money and time dealing with problem ultimately to the moment that new mage will born then repeat process.  

Besides the fact that you should really improve your english as it is a pain to read, I'm not even going to read all that anymore.

You're biased, you hate mages and you fail to see otherwise. The Chantry's indoctrination was apparently successfull on you.

If you mock the idea of templars and mages having a working, peacefull relationship (that doesn't involve rainbows and hugging), this thread is not for you.

The door is over there, now get out.

[Magdalena11]

Toasted Llama wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Chantry rules and will rule this as long they won't be brutally overthrown you should figure answer now after 2 games and how chantry deal with things and what that leads to...

Chantry won't allow on such things and before that every will be allowed to learn it is long time chantry want power and are fanatics so they will do everything to keep their position.

There is no no-opresive system templars and non-mages want safety when they don't care about mages and often hate them for being different so if they will end in charge they will abuse (watch circles) and mages want freedom what means that they will be great danger for world and they will have to protect themselves to keep that position because non-mages will want take it.So deal with that humans are too di*** to not abuse mages when get power to rule them and mages freedom will destroy world or end like teviner. Simple peoples hate others for smaller things and differences and it will never end. 

If im biased because well i mock every idea mages should huge with templars and then we will have eternal peace or mock that same ideas that was and didn't worked well yes then im biased.

I don't hate mages i m just telling truth they are ticking bombs and threat and i will eliminate every threat whether it is not mage or not.you are right about that magic helped shape dragon age universe but it did it in very negative way magic provided very littlle and destroyed civilizations and caused many rly many problems for peoples living in thedas.Magic is curse why simple because it provides a little for user and well takes so much that it isn't even for comparison/It is like yay you can heal your grandma minor injuries nay you can also burn your city at any moment of your life because of demons there is good reason why mages in dragon age ended as example of this .

Well evil is rather matter of your own opinion and i rly don't care about morality all i care is corruption which isn't good for business and their incompetence that causes mora and more trobules in practice they are nothing more than sadists who try explain kicking dogs as necessary evil and keeping victims alive with fu*** morality which often is hypocrisy ultimately thead lead to many magical incydents that caused damage im not sadist im simple get rid of danger quickly killing mages and finally remove danger of abomnations and demons from the world. 

I don't think that magic is "evil" that same for blood magic ,i am not interested in chantry twisted morals not in any other morals.Simple all i care it is me and effectiveness... I see that in that way

Mages-many destructive incidents caused by them some of them are on global scale-world destruction is bad for my business-their circles absorb money and time and incidents are still being continued- kill mages remove the threat save money and time dealing with problem ultimately to the moment that new mage will born then repeat process.  

Besides the fact that you should really improve your english as it is a pain to read, I'm not even going to read all that anymore.

You're biased, you hate mages and you fail to see otherwise. The Chantry's indoctrination was apparently successfull on you.

If you mock the idea of templars and mages having a working, peacefull relationship (that doesn't involve rainbows and hugging), this thread is not for you.

The door is over there, now get out.

I agree that the above post is extremely difficult to read and that I seldom try past the first paragraph because I know what the good Komandor is going to say anyway.  He can be a hater if he wants, I doubt anyone else gets far beyond the first paragraph anyway.

@ theKomandorShepherd - if you want to get your point across, learn to express your thoughts clearly and briefly.

I would love to see the mages and templars be able to come to some sort of peaceful solution.  Surely there must be templars who believe that their function is to protect the mages instead of oppressing them.  There are mages who are not bent on turning into abominations and setting towns and stuff alight.  I though Irving and Greagoir had a good relationship.  Greagoir was willing to take Irving's word on the tower and Irving was all for getting the tower back in shape and back in business.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Lord Raijin wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

Anders doesn't have any credibility. The fact that he practically cackles with glee if you sell Fenris to slaving blood mage confirms this.

And I'm sure that Fenris would do the same if you surrendered Anders to the templars knowing that he will become tranquil or be executed. It goes both ways.

Fenris reacting like that, wouldn't go 100% agaisnt everything he has been preaching throughout the game. Anders on the other hand proves himself the eternal hypocrit and a short-sighted fool.

[moose334]

All I want is one set of dragon age origins templar armor and I'm happy.

[Jaison1986]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

Anders doesn't have any credibility. The fact that he practically cackles with glee if you sell Fenris to slaving blood mage confirms this.

And I'm sure that Fenris would do the same if you surrendered Anders to the templars knowing that he will become tranquil or be executed. It goes both ways.

Fenris reacting like that, wouldn't go 100% agaisnt everything he has been preaching throughout the game. Anders on the other hand proves himself the eternal hypocrit and a short-sighted fool.

No more then you anyway.

People will never understand that situation, as it seems. Anders does not approve of slavery. The situation here is that ever since they met, Fenris never saved words to show how much he disrespects and despises Anders, and the same goes for Anders too. They HATE each other. Plain and simple. So when you sell Fenris into slavery, he approves becuase you are getting rid of an guy he really despises and wants gone.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Toasted Llama wrote...


Besides the fact that you should really improve your english as it is a pain to read, I'm not even going to read all that anymore.

You're biased, you hate mages and you fail to see otherwise. The Chantry's indoctrination was apparently successfull on you.

If you mock the idea of templars and mages having a working, peacefull relationship (that doesn't involve rainbows and hugging), this thread is not for you.

The door is over there, now get out.

I don't see where it is written that you have to be painfully naive to be here.

Well you are type of guy who see black dude and white dude fighting and you start screaming "you racist leave him alone" don't you?Do you even know what is hate and now you are trying assign emotion to me what makes things personal and my reasons are different.

So i will point that once again.
Are mages dangerous for thedas?
asnswer is yes

So that inquisitor want get rid off demons mean that s/he hates them?

too emotionally my friend

[SeekerOfLight]

Mages are people. People will do bad things and good things, without magic, (our world being the obvious example, 2 world wars and not a spell to be seen and in DA Rendon Howe). Even if every mage were to disappear from Thedas evil and bad things wouldn't disappear with them. People would just do their evil without magic.

My primary issue with the mage circle system as divised by the chantry is that it is ineffective.
The harrowing doesn't prevent blood mages from rising so much as it just culls those mages who aren't strong magically or mentally. (remember you are not told in the mage origin what you must do in the fade its sink or swim). Also failed in its stated goal e.g. the Uldred ****-up.

In the land where the white divine rules.The power of the templars is not uniform e.g. the rite of tranquility. Karl is harrowed mage therefore he should not have been made tranquil under chantry law.

But in Kirkwall he is. Meaning that depending the templars merely interpret the law as they see fit. Another example, on the other end is Ser Carver who let Malcolm Hawke escape the circle. The circles have no legitimate way for mages the vent their grievances. (Membership in the fraternities just seems like a good way to get yourself noticed and then tranquiled IMO.)

And don't get me started on the 'brilliant' idea of having who are essentially addicts having life and death power over people who have no choice but to submit to their authority.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Jaison1986 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

Anders doesn't have any credibility. The fact that he practically cackles with glee if you sell Fenris to slaving blood mage confirms this.

And I'm sure that Fenris would do the same if you surrendered Anders to the templars knowing that he will become tranquil or be executed. It goes both ways.

Fenris reacting like that, wouldn't go 100% agaisnt everything he has been preaching throughout the game. Anders on the other hand proves himself the eternal hypocrit and a short-sighted fool.

No more then you anyway.

People will never understand that situation, as it seems. Anders does not approve of slavery. The situation here is that ever since they met, Fenris never saved words to show how much he disrespects and despises Anders, and the same goes for Anders too. They HATE each other. Plain and simple. So when you sell Fenris into slavery, he approves becuase you are getting rid of an guy he really despises and wants gone.

So a man who is all about principles (Anders) is willing to sell out on his own principles, for the sake of petty hatreds? How again EXACTLY is that not hypocrisy?
Anders cares NOTHING about slavery. What he is alla bout is his own percieved slavery of amges. He couldn't give less of a **** about slavery in general.

[Jaison1986]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

Anders doesn't have any credibility. The fact that he practically cackles with glee if you sell Fenris to slaving blood mage confirms this.

And I'm sure that Fenris would do the same if you surrendered Anders to the templars knowing that he will become tranquil or be executed. It goes both ways.

Fenris reacting like that, wouldn't go 100% agaisnt everything he has been preaching throughout the game. Anders on the other hand proves himself the eternal hypocrit and a short-sighted fool.

No more then you anyway.

People will never understand that situation, as it seems. Anders does not approve of slavery. The situation here is that ever since they met, Fenris never saved words to show how much he disrespects and despises Anders, and the same goes for Anders too. They HATE each other. Plain and simple. So when you sell Fenris into slavery, he approves becuase you are getting rid of an guy he really despises and wants gone.

So a man who is all about principles (Anders) is willing to sell out on his own principles, for the sake of petty hatreds? How again EXACTLY is that not hypocrisy?
Anders cares NOTHING about slavery. What he is alla bout is his own percieved slavery of amges. He couldn't give less of a **** about slavery in general.

Fenris is exactly the same. He lets petty hated cloud his judgment on the last straw. If you don't get him to at least 50% friendship/rivalry, he sides with the templars to slaughter the mages, despite being there and knowing the mages did nothing wrong and didn't deserved their fate. He let his own selfish impulses drive his actions. The mages in Kirkwall are not like the magisters in Tevinter, but what does he care?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Jaison1986 wrote...

Fenris is exactly the same. He lets petty hated cloud his judgment on the last straw. If you don't get him to at least 50% friendship/rivalry, he sides with the templars to slaughter the mages, despite being there and knowing the mages did nothing wrong and didn't deserved their fate. He let his own selfish impulses drive his actions. The mages in Kirkwall are not like the magisters in Tevinter, but what does he care?

Fenris does not pride himself on his principles, nor does he preach incesantly about them. So Fenris does not fail to live up to his own word. Anders however is a miserable failure.

[Jaison1986]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

Fenris is exactly the same. He lets petty hated cloud his judgment on the last straw. If you don't get him to at least 50% friendship/rivalry, he sides with the templars to slaughter the mages, despite being there and knowing the mages did nothing wrong and didn't deserved their fate. He let his own selfish impulses drive his actions. The mages in Kirkwall are not like the magisters in Tevinter, but what does he care?

Fenris does not pride himself on his principles, nor does he preach incesantly about them. So Fenris does not fail to live up to his own word. Anders however is a miserable failure.

This is ridiculous. If there is one thing Fenris aways do, is to preach all the time of how much mages suck and need to be put in their place. Whenever Hawke calls him on his bullsh*t and tells him not all mages are the same, he keeps going to his excuse the mages are aways an carbon copy of Tevinter magisters.

[SeekerOfLight]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

Fenris is exactly the same. He lets petty hated cloud his judgment on the last straw. If you don't get him to at least 50% friendship/rivalry, he sides with the templars to slaughter the mages, despite being there and knowing the mages did nothing wrong and didn't deserved their fate. He let his own selfish impulses drive his actions. The mages in Kirkwall are not like the magisters in Tevinter, but what does he care?

Fenris does not pride himself on his principles, nor does he preach incesantly about them. So Fenris does not fail to live up to his own word. Anders however is a miserable failure.

I agree about Anders, he knows that his actions will have repercussions far beyond himself, most of which will be negative for mages. In that moment I believe is when he truly became an abomination in the truest sense of the word. He is completely taken in by justice and unable see beyond his own wants and desires.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Jaison1986 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

Fenris is exactly the same. He lets petty hated cloud his judgment on the last straw. If you don't get him to at least 50% friendship/rivalry, he sides with the templars to slaughter the mages, despite being there and knowing the mages did nothing wrong and didn't deserved their fate. He let his own selfish impulses drive his actions. The mages in Kirkwall are not like the magisters in Tevinter, but what does he care?

Fenris does not pride himself on his principles, nor does he preach incesantly about them. So Fenris does not fail to live up to his own word. Anders however is a miserable failure.

This is ridiculous. If there is one thing Fenris aways do, is to preach all the time of how much mages suck and need to be put in their place. Whenever Hawke calls him on his bullsh*t and tells him not all mages are the same, he keeps going to his excuse the mages are aways an carbon copy of Tevinter magisters.

He doesn't preach incesantly about it. And more importantly he is willing and capable of admitting his own mistakes. Adn even then, he NEVER fails to lvie up to his own words. If he hates mages, then he doesn't fail to live up to his own words when he "betrays" Hawke.
Anders on the other hand, who incesantly preach how evil the Cirlce system is, and how slavery is bad. Continuesly fail to admit his own wrongs, and he even condones slavery. So the point still stands: Anders is a miserable piece of human refuse who fails to live by the word he preaches himself.

[Nightdragon8]

Jaison1986 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

Anders doesn't have any credibility. The fact that he practically cackles with glee if you sell Fenris to slaving blood mage confirms this.

And I'm sure that Fenris would do the same if you surrendered Anders to the templars knowing that he will become tranquil or be executed. It goes both ways.

Fenris reacting like that, wouldn't go 100% agaisnt everything he has been preaching throughout the game. Anders on the other hand proves himself the eternal hypocrit and a short-sighted fool.

No more then you anyway.

People will never understand that situation, as it seems. Anders does not approve of slavery. The situation here is that ever since they met, Fenris never saved words to show how much he disrespects and despises Anders, and the same goes for Anders too. They HATE each other. Plain and simple. So when you sell Fenris into slavery, he approves becuase you are getting rid of an guy he really despises and wants gone.

so what you are saying is that if you hate someone you will sell them into slavery and you wont feel bad about doing it?

cause if thats the case I am seriously fearful of anyone around you.

[Jaison1986]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

Fenris is exactly the same. He lets petty hated cloud his judgment on the last straw. If you don't get him to at least 50% friendship/rivalry, he sides with the templars to slaughter the mages, despite being there and knowing the mages did nothing wrong and didn't deserved their fate. He let his own selfish impulses drive his actions. The mages in Kirkwall are not like the magisters in Tevinter, but what does he care?

Fenris does not pride himself on his principles, nor does he preach incesantly about them. So Fenris does not fail to live up to his own word. Anders however is a miserable failure.

This is ridiculous. If there is one thing Fenris aways do, is to preach all the time of how much mages suck and need to be put in their place. Whenever Hawke calls him on his bullsh*t and tells him not all mages are the same, he keeps going to his excuse the mages are aways an carbon copy of Tevinter magisters.

He doesn't preach incesantly about it. And more importantly he is willing and capable of admitting his own mistakes. Adn even then, he NEVER fails to lvie up to his own words. If he hates mages, then he doesn't fail to live up to his own words when he "betrays" Hawke.
Anders on the other hand, who incesantly preach how evil the Cirlce system is, and how slavery is bad. Continuesly fail to admit his own wrongs, and he even condones slavery. So the point still stands: Anders is a miserable piece of human refuse who fails to live by the word he preaches himself.

I could perhaps agree with your point, but the problem here is that Fenris is the only character in the entire game you can sell out to slavery, you never does it with anyone else, so you never see Anders reaction if you were to sell someone he doesn't hates. You can bet your ass he would be pretty appaled if you tried to sell out people like Bethany or Varric, whom he likes and respects. The point is rendered moot because in Fenris case, to Anders is not cruely selling someone to slavery, but getting rid of an annoying douchbag that can only spew insults to him and the others.  I don't think Anders is human refuse, simply for enjoying seeing an a**hole getting what he deserves.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

so what you are saying is that if you hate someone you will sell them into slavery and you wont feel bad about doing it?

cause if thats the case I am seriously fearful of anyone around you.

No no no... You see slavery IS bad.. But if you REALLY hate someone, then it is totally okay to sell them to an abusive slavemaster.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 26 décembre 2013 - 03:41 .

[Nightdragon8]

can we get off this topic, cause I'm about 5 mins from blowing up on Jaison...

[TheKomandorShepard]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Nightdragon8 wrote...

so what you are saying is that if you hate someone you will sell them into slavery and you wont feel bad about doing it?

cause if thats the case I am seriously fearful of anyone around you.

No no no... You see slavery IS bad.. But if you REALLY hate someone, then it is totally okay to sell them to an abusive slavemaster.

Sell hawke or anders never sell fenris you could just say "this is not my problem" which anders approve.

[Veruin]

Jaison1986 wrote...

I could perhaps agree with your point, but the problem here is that Fenris is the only character in the entire game you can sell out to slavery, you never does it with anyone else, so you never see Anders reaction if you were to sell someone he doesn't hates. You can bet your ass he would be pretty appaled if you tried to sell out people like Bethany or Varric, whom he likes and respects. The point is rendered moot because in Fenris case, to Anders is not cruely selling someone to slavery, but getting rid of an annoying douchbag that can only spew insults to him and the others.  I don't think Anders is human refuse, simply for enjoying seeing an a**hole getting what he deserves.

So it all comes back down to "It's ok because I don't like him."
Absolutely pathetic.  I don't like a lot of posters on here one bit, doesn't mean I want to see them enslaved for being ****s.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Jaison1986 wrote...

I could perhaps agree with your point, but the problem here is that Fenris is the only character in the entire game you can sell out to slavery, you never does it with anyone else, so you never see Anders reaction if you were to sell someone he doesn't hates. You can bet your ass he would be pretty appaled if you tried to sell out people like Bethany or Varric, whom he likes and respects. The point is rendered moot because in Fenris case, to Anders is not cruely selling someone to slavery, but getting rid of an annoying douchbag that can only spew insults to him and the others.  I don't think Anders is human refuse, simply for enjoying seeing an a**hole getting what he deserves.

Honestly I do not recall Fenris EVER going out of his way to insult Anders. Most of the time Fenris barely even acknowledges the presence of Anders. Mostly Fenris actually tries to avoid the subjects, since he has no interest in discussing it with Anders. So yeah... Fenris never actually "spewed insults" at Anders... So basically Anders is willing to let anyone who has a different point of view than his be sold into slavery. WHICH IS OF COURSE TOTALLY FINE! I mean, they are obviously douchebags who doesn't see things the way Anders, and what Anders see is obviosuly "right"..... Right?....

[Jaison1986]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

I could perhaps agree with your point, but the problem here is that Fenris is the only character in the entire game you can sell out to slavery, you never does it with anyone else, so you never see Anders reaction if you were to sell someone he doesn't hates. You can bet your ass he would be pretty appaled if you tried to sell out people like Bethany or Varric, whom he likes and respects. The point is rendered moot because in Fenris case, to Anders is not cruely selling someone to slavery, but getting rid of an annoying douchbag that can only spew insults to him and the others.  I don't think Anders is human refuse, simply for enjoying seeing an a**hole getting what he deserves.

Honestly I do not recall Fenris EVER going out of his way to insult Anders. Most of the time Fenris barely even acknowledges the presence of Anders. Mostly Fenris actually tries to avoid the subjects, since he has no interest in discussing it with Anders. So yeah... Fenris never actually "spewed insults" at Anders... So basically Anders is willing to let anyone who has a different point of view than his be sold into slavery. WHICH IS OF COURSE TOTALLY FINE! I mean, they are obviously douchebags who doesn't see things the way Anders, and what Anders see is obviosuly "right"..... Right?....

Fenris: I seem to recall you saying something a while ago...
Anders: Shut up.
Fenris: "I can control it." Wasn't that what you said?
Anders: So help me...

You can say that again. So he doesn't approves to see anyone who disagrees with him being sold into slavey. He is just enjoying seeing someone he really hates getting what is coming to them (on his point of view). It could be slavery, death or misery, Anders would enjoy the sight of Fenris suffering, just as much an Cousland would enjoy seeing Howe bleeding on the floor as he dies, or Alistair see Loghain head rolling on the ground, Leliana killing Marjolaine and so forth. Oh, but of course, God forbid, Anders is the only character that had ever enjoyed seeing people he hates suffering, no one else ever felt the same.

Modifié par Jaison1986, 26 décembre 2013 - 04:06 .

[Veruin]

Jaison1986 wrote..
Fenris: I seem to recall you saying something a while ago...
Anders: Shut up.
Fenris: "I can control it." Wasn't that what you said?
Anders: So help me...

You can say that again. So he doesn't approves to see anyone who disagrees with him being sold into slavey. He is just enjoying seeing someone he really hates getting what is coming to them (on his point of view). It could be slavery, death or misery, Anders would enjoy the sight of Fenris suffering, just as much an Cousland would enjoy seeing Howe bleeding on the floor as he dies, or Alistair see Loghain head rolling on the ground, Leliana killing Marjolaine and so forth. Oh, but of course, God forbid, Anders is the only character that had ever enjoyed seeing people he hates suffering, no one else ever felt the same.

Let's see, first example killed the noble's entire family for the sake of power.  The second had his comrade at arms and his father figure murdered by Loghain (at least to his knowledge), and Leliana was raped, tortured and effectively exiled because Marjolaine framed her.    While Fenris simply doesn't like Anders.

Yea, you're right.  Those are all the same.

Modifié par Veruin, 26 décembre 2013 - 04:23 .

[Jaison1986]

Well, I gave my two cents. I myself never sold Fenris to Danarius, though I don't blame Anders for feeling the way he does. My final point is that this simply about personal hate and not principles, when it comes to Fenris and Anders, and none of them is really better then the other.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Jaison1986 wrote...
Fenris: I seem to recall you saying something a while ago...
Anders: Shut up.
Fenris: "I can control it." Wasn't that what you said?
Anders: So help me...

You can say that again. So he doesn't approves to see anyone who disagrees with him being sold into slavey. He is just enjoying seeing someone he really hates getting what is coming to them (on his point of view). It could be slavery, death or misery, Anders would enjoy the sight of Fenris suffering, just as much an Cousland would enjoy seeing Howe bleeding on the floor as he dies, or Alistair see Loghain head rolling on the ground, Leliana killing Marjolaine and so forth. Oh, but of course, God forbid, Anders is the only character that had ever enjoyed seeing people he hates suffering, no one else ever felt the same.

Your quote of Fenris and ANders banter is the ONLY piece of banter where Fenris instigates an argument with Anders. And with good reason, for this banter to occur Anders has to lose control during 'Dissent'.

And all of your examples are useless, since none of these examples are of people who pride themsevles on their principles, nor are they lving by some strict code of honour. The Warden is a wildcard of course, and I would say that if you play a pacifist Warden who enjoys watching Howe die, then your warden would be a pathetic failure aswell. Alistair and Lelianna on the other hand does not pride themselves on their morals or ethics, so it is not hypocrisy of them to enjoy the death of another human being. You can certainly argue that it is "wrong" to take enjoyment from such things, which I would be inclined to agree with, though I find it understandable.

Anders on the other hand is on a crusade against what he believes is the ENSLAVEMENT of mages. He preaches incesantly about. Whines to god and everyman about the plight of the mages. But the second that someone he happens dislike is sold into SLAVERY, the very thing that Anders has spent the better part of adecade crusading against, then he becomes all docile and allows it to happen. That is why Anders is a steaming pile of human refuse. That is why Anders is worth less than the hole he sh*ts in. And that is why Anders is nothing but a short-sighted hypocritical fool.

[lil yonce]

Lord Raijin wrote...
Meredith does not have the right to essentinally become the new Viscount of Kirkwall.  She is a templar, not a noble. She had no right to stop the election for a new Viscount.

Templars holding power is up for debate - its not clear whether or not they can do it as an order, but it doesn't matter in the end. Meredith has an army Kirkwall needs. She uses that leverage to hold the position of Viscount. Right or no right, right or wrong. She can do it. That's how politics work.

Meredith was becoming a meance to Kirkwall and like I said Elthina had the authority to end this choas by contacting the Divine to request a Seeker to investigate Meredith; to keep her neutral status flowing.

And there was an investigation - Leliana. I don't think even the Divine can pull a fast one and have a full-fleged public investigation and Meredith removed no questions asked. Again, too much vested interest to do that, and if someone pisses off Meredith too much, the templars split from the chantry on an accelerated time table.

And yes. Elthina was in second in command. She could and actually did ordered Meredith around by ordering her to return back to the gallows like a "good little girl".

That wasn't an order. Elthina was leaning on her respect and goodwill as Grand Cleric to control Meredith. If she was disliked or a nobody, Meredith can do whatever she wants. But because Elthina is respected, Meredith has to listen to her or pay the price politically. Too many people support Elthina for Meredith to just ignore her.

She was one step up from becoming a Divine, if she were to become nominated through an election. She has that much power over the templars in her jurisdiction. If you remember she ordered Meredith's templars to take Orsino back to the Circle, and they didn't hestitate to do what she ask them to do.  They didn't even look at Meredith for an approval. They just did what they were ordered to do.

She's leaning on the fact they respect her enough to do what she says. At best her word is synonymous with Meredith's because they respect her, but there is no power there she's exercising. She's not ordering Meredith around. And the Divine doesn't control the Templars either, and she barely controls the Seekers as we see in Asunder. These organizations are not under the Chantry. They're adjacent to it. I'll try to find the post by Gaider that says so. The Chantry does not have unlimited power over them.

No Anders was not dumb. He acted according. He gave the peaceful option a chance, and it didn't work. Anders started a revolution, not war. It was the Chantry that created this war, not the mages. Meredith was wanting to kill the mages prior to Anders action. She kept on harassing Orsino and made things extremely diffcult. It was only a matter of time before something drastic happen.

Yes, Anders was. He did not give peace a chance at all. He said he was removing the chance of compromise because there was none. Dumb. And he started nothing. That's giving him way too much credit. Adrian caused the rebellion.

And you don't think there were mages who saw the problems with the Circle and were working in other ways to fix it? Mages like Wynne, templars like Thrask, Chantry officials like the Divine? And why don't you blame the Aequitarians, the Loyalists and their alliance that dominated the College of Magi and kowtowed to the Chantry since its been in existence? Why don't you condemn the mages for not doing a thing at  College of Magi like they're supposed to. Asunder page 336-337 says they don't. They chit-chat and hang out. There have absolutely been other alternatives, and nothing can be 100% blamed on the Chantry. I don't understand how you can claim its all their fault.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 26 décembre 2013 - 05:01 .