891 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Shhh when your mood "how dear you attack my precious templars"

Read my first post again in which you missed point in your rage

here i will help

Only difference between anders and templars is that
that templars are controling law (what don't make them better) templars
strike civilians as well but they are mages if mages won and templars
acted way they act now they would be terrorists and anders law...

I am not being a pro-Templar numbskull... I am explaining why Anders IS a terrorst and the the Templars AREN'T. And in case YOU didn't read, I agreed with you that if the Templars continued their actions udner amges' laws, they would probably be considered terrorist.

But as I said, your reading comprehension and understanding is down the gutter, so any attempt at further debate with you is pointless.

No rly your attack said otherwise i mocked that they are that same in what you responded that they aren't actions are that same so you when you started ramble about law to protect templars when my point different...  

[Jaison1986]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Because birth of mages cannot be stopped and many mages are very good people. Also mages can do things mundanes can't even dream of with a wave of a hand. If control for mages is necessary then it should happen in a much better and civil way than circles. Do you really want to anger someone who can burn you an instant if they wanted to?
I said human rights doesn't exist in Thedas but that doesn't mean we should dehumanize mages.

"Mages are good people" what on sweet mother earth kind of asinine generalization is that? Mages are PEOPLE just like all the rest of us. They are only as good/bad as the next man.

And the problem with the Circles as of now is management, otehrwise it is a perfectly humane enviroment. There are good reasons for segregation of mages and mundanes. And I asked you to provide and in-world reasons for why a mundane would WANT  a mage to live next door, when the mundanes are very aware of the capabilties of the mage. Especially that whole demon part.
The mundanes would NOT want to live next to a mage. Not until education has improved across the board for the commoners of Thedas.

Said education does not happen because stupid Chantry dogma does not allow it. Take away their claim over mages then maybe we can start changing things. Maybe an mundane would want live next to an mage because they could easily heal them if they needed to? That would certanly be an advantage.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Jaison1986 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Because birth of mages cannot be stopped and many mages are very good people. Also mages can do things mundanes can't even dream of with a wave of a hand. If control for mages is necessary then it should happen in a much better and civil way than circles. Do you really want to anger someone who can burn you an instant if they wanted to?
I said human rights doesn't exist in Thedas but that doesn't mean we should dehumanize mages.

"Mages are good people" what on sweet mother earth kind of asinine generalization is that? Mages are PEOPLE just like all the rest of us. They are only as good/bad as the next man.

And the problem with the Circles as of now is management, otehrwise it is a perfectly humane enviroment. There are good reasons for segregation of mages and mundanes. And I asked you to provide and in-world reasons for why a mundane would WANT  a mage to live next door, when the mundanes are very aware of the capabilties of the mage. Especially that whole demon part.
The mundanes would NOT want to live next to a mage. Not until education has improved across the board for the commoners of Thedas.

Said education does not happen because stupid Chantry dogma does not allow it. Take away their claim over mages then maybe we can start changing things. Maybe an mundane would want live next to an mage because they could easily heal them if they needed to? That would certanly be an advantage.

healing minor injuries vs living with guy who can turn into unstoppable creature that destroys everything on their path rather difficult choice...

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 27 décembre 2013 - 12:39 .

[Jaison1986]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Because birth of mages cannot be stopped and many mages are very good people. Also mages can do things mundanes can't even dream of with a wave of a hand. If control for mages is necessary then it should happen in a much better and civil way than circles. Do you really want to anger someone who can burn you an instant if they wanted to?
I said human rights doesn't exist in Thedas but that doesn't mean we should dehumanize mages.

"Mages are good people" what on sweet mother earth kind of asinine generalization is that? Mages are PEOPLE just like all the rest of us. They are only as good/bad as the next man.

And the problem with the Circles as of now is management, otehrwise it is a perfectly humane enviroment. There are good reasons for segregation of mages and mundanes. And I asked you to provide and in-world reasons for why a mundane would WANT  a mage to live next door, when the mundanes are very aware of the capabilties of the mage. Especially that whole demon part.
The mundanes would NOT want to live next to a mage. Not until education has improved across the board for the commoners of Thedas.

Said education does not happen because stupid Chantry dogma does not allow it. Take away their claim over mages then maybe we can start changing things. Maybe an mundane would want live next to an mage because they could easily heal them if they needed to? That would certanly be an advantage.

healing minor injuries vs living with guy who can turn into unstoppable creature that destroys everything on their path rather difficult choice...

Now you are working on IFs. There is also an good chance said guy will never be possessed and will live an peaceful existance for the rest of his life.

[Nightdragon8]

ok if we are going to get into the whole "what is Anders a terrorist or not"

Its a seriously complex answer with no real reslove as we don't know what all anders was really thinking.

But my guess is that he was blaming the Chantry for everything that was going wrong in the Circle and templars. Which has 2 answers. The Chantry in Kirkwall, no,because the Divine in the chantry has no direct control over the Templars. (as far as it seemed, not sure what is true considering I haven't seen any laws or rules/regulations. Stating what the Divine has control of there.) and as such really couldn't do anything to stop Meridth.

So in that way no Anders was not justified in bombing it. However....

I think Anders is targetting the religon and blaming it. And I would have to say that he is half right. The whole treatment of mages seems to be based on 1. passage of the "chant of light" The whole "Magic must serve men, not rule them" Also with the social issues with tevinter. So just like all the relgions in the real world, Andraste-ism is an inverse of tevinter society.

The real problem seems to be that, really the Templars and teh circles have changed there policies over time, to give less and less freedom to mages to the point where they are pretty much in jail, and are only to be used as tools of war. But even then the Templars have them so locked down to prevent them from using magic that there is little to no room for them to use it.

Again is seems that the Templars are doing this on there own and the Chantry has little or no say in regards to this, As I'm sure the Templars have always used the term, "Security" to Justify there actions.

So is it the religion's fault? Ehh...yeah... sort of... kinda. So was he justified in blowing up the chantry? Sort of, kind of? Maybe. Personally I would try to find out the REAL reason the state of the world is the way it is, and then start assigning blame.

So from my point of view Anders shoudl have killed the knight-commander and maybe her support staff. Other than that I don't see how blowing up the church really sloved anything other than getting alot of innocent people killed on both sides.

And anyone who says, "All templars are evil" is an extremist and should be ignored, Cause the other side can say, "All mages are blood mages" and we will get into an extremist debate which both sides being WRONG.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Jaison1986 wrote...


Now you are working on IFs. There is also an good chance said guy will never be possessed and will live an peaceful existance for the rest of his life.

How do you know how many mages turn into abomnations or just dangerous lunatics well i say rly many.

Toasted Llama wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

1.I pointed **** not germans generally and differences were smaller...

What? You forgot that during WW2 99% of the Germans were national socialists?

2.Not rly hate affect on opinion but isn't opinion itself it is emotion.

People don't hate for no reason, they hate because they have a negative opinion about something.

3.Problem? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie] i stated only truth and i pointed proves.

LOL.
No, what you said is complete and utter bullsh*t because you yourself
are the only one that believes your so called "proof". I'm not even
going to disprove what you said because I'm just going to get thrown
fake proof anyway, causing this to go in circles forever.

4.I can because games show it clearly every game have more than one disaster caused by mages so well i can.

With
usually only a small amount of mages, compared to the total amount of
mages that exist. As well as every game shows a disaster caused by
non-mages, so it would mean that everyone is as bad as mages. Just
because every game happens to show disasters caused by a few mages,
doesn't mean every mage is like that.

5.Well
so i can tell that about pro-mages choices and you don't know about bio
canon even if killing mages will end in 3 game without possibility to
import i can live with that because well that certain solution that
solves problem.

Bioware has a canon and considering
they have had plenty of opportunities remove magic and mages from Thedas
and considering they deliberately put it into the universe, they aren't
planning to completely remove mages/magic and I even doubt they are
going to give players the option to rid Thedas of all mages/magic.

6.I doubt that they can retcon so big choice at worst they won't let us import with such option.

They've retconned characters back from the dead before.


You
might as well give up with your twisted ideas and leave this thread as
it is definitely not for you. If you don't like our "naive" ideas and if
you don't want to believe that not all mages are dangerous or evil,
then why are you in this thread anyway? And do you really think Bioware
is just going to let people rid Thedas of all mages and magic and let
them even import that into the next games?

1.Well word was censored but german doesn't mean **** and i pointed **** not germans and just give some people control over other social group well will end badly.

2.Opinion was born from hate emotions affect judgment well when it is just opinion that dislike something it isn't hate when hate is an emotion.  

3.Wait you try to tell me that blight , zathrian curse and other incidents caused by abomnations is just my bul*** and was just a dream?I may disagree...

4.Dude mage don't have to be bad (well who is bad and who isn't is your personal opinion i guess it is about evil and good). Good mage or evil mage it doesn't matter both have great potential to spread destruction and cause end of the world which in case "good" it won't be intentionally and i case evil it may be intentionally and not.So in the end morality doesn't matter abomnation can be good or evil mage.

5.Bioware has own canon and bio said many times that their canon (dalish elf who did US) doesn't mean that it is our canon you have owon world , i have own and DG have own.And if we going to decide about matters mages and templar killing mages should be an option istead taking stupidy is only option like in da 2 ending and that was criticized by many players that didn't have motivation to help templars or mages.

6.Well retcon is bad word because they were dead and game know that but somehow they
survived even if explanation is stupid.And well one character isn't choice on such big scale. 

Well are mages are dangerous (however to call someone dangerous you need compare it to something) but yes mages are threat for every species in thedas and can cause end of the world and that is sufficient threat.Are they evil it is rather personal opinion i don't rly care if someone kick dogs or burn orphans as long that don't harm my goals.I see rather that is useful for me or not or is that threatens me or not. 

I don't see why they shouldn't let us do that should they let us import that well it depends and where da is going but choice should be allowed even if we can't import that like save with dead CS in ME 2 to me 3.    

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 27 décembre 2013 - 01:13 .

[Jaison1986]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

ok if we are going to get into the whole "what is Anders a terrorist or not"

Its a seriously complex answer with no real reslove as we don't know what all anders was really thinking.

But my guess is that he was blaming the Chantry for everything that was going wrong in the Circle and templars. Which has 2 answers. The Chantry in Kirkwall, no,because the Divine in the chantry has no direct control over the Templars. (as far as it seemed, not sure what is true considering I haven't seen any laws or rules/regulations. Stating what the Divine has control of there.) and as such really couldn't do anything to stop Meridth.

So in that way no Anders was not justified in bombing it. However....

I think Anders is targetting the religon and blaming it. And I would have to say that he is half right. The whole treatment of mages seems to be based on 1. passage of the "chant of light" The whole "Magic must serve men, not rule them" Also with the social issues with tevinter. So just like all the relgions in the real world, Andraste-ism is an inverse of tevinter society.

The real problem seems to be that, really the Templars and teh circles have changed there policies over time, to give less and less freedom to mages to the point where they are pretty much in jail, and are only to be used as tools of war. But even then the Templars have them so locked down to prevent them from using magic that there is little to no room for them to use it.

Again is seems that the Templars are doing this on there own and the Chantry has little or no say in regards to this, As I'm sure the Templars have always used the term, "Security" to Justify there actions.

So is it the religion's fault? Ehh...yeah... sort of... kinda. So was he justified in blowing up the chantry? Sort of, kind of? Maybe. Personally I would try to find out the REAL reason the state of the world is the way it is, and then start assigning blame.

So from my point of view Anders shoudl have killed the knight-commander and maybe her support staff. Other than that I don't see how blowing up the church really sloved anything other than getting alot of innocent people killed on both sides.

And anyone who says, "All templars are evil" is an extremist and should be ignored, Cause the other side can say, "All mages are blood mages" and we will get into an extremist debate which both sides being WRONG.

I actually agree with this a lot. I myself wouldn't have blown up the Chantry myself. I would have attacked the Templars order directly. As I find them the ones to blames, and the ones that need to be put down. But by the end of the day I don't blame Anders for doing what he did, as the Chantry itself commited many attrocities in the name of their cause.

[Lulupab]

Jaison1986 wrote...

Nightdragon8 wrote...

ok if we are going to get into the whole "what is Anders a terrorist or not"

Its a seriously complex answer with no real reslove as we don't know what all anders was really thinking.

But my guess is that he was blaming the Chantry for everything that was going wrong in the Circle and templars. Which has 2 answers. The Chantry in Kirkwall, no,because the Divine in the chantry has no direct control over the Templars. (as far as it seemed, not sure what is true considering I haven't seen any laws or rules/regulations. Stating what the Divine has control of there.) and as such really couldn't do anything to stop Meridth.

So in that way no Anders was not justified in bombing it. However....

I think Anders is targetting the religon and blaming it. And I would have to say that he is half right. The whole treatment of mages seems to be based on 1. passage of the "chant of light" The whole "Magic must serve men, not rule them" Also with the social issues with tevinter. So just like all the relgions in the real world, Andraste-ism is an inverse of tevinter society.

The real problem seems to be that, really the Templars and teh circles have changed there policies over time, to give less and less freedom to mages to the point where they are pretty much in jail, and are only to be used as tools of war. But even then the Templars have them so locked down to prevent them from using magic that there is little to no room for them to use it.

Again is seems that the Templars are doing this on there own and the Chantry has little or no say in regards to this, As I'm sure the Templars have always used the term, "Security" to Justify there actions.

So is it the religion's fault? Ehh...yeah... sort of... kinda. So was he justified in blowing up the chantry? Sort of, kind of? Maybe. Personally I would try to find out the REAL reason the state of the world is the way it is, and then start assigning blame.

So from my point of view Anders shoudl have killed the knight-commander and maybe her support staff. Other than that I don't see how blowing up the church really sloved anything other than getting alot of innocent people killed on both sides.

And anyone who says, "All templars are evil" is an extremist and should be ignored, Cause the other side can say, "All mages are blood mages" and we will get into an extremist debate which both sides being WRONG.

I actually agree with this a lot. I myself wouldn't have blown up the Chantry myself. I would have attacked the Templars order directly. As I find them the ones to blames, and the ones that need to be put down. But by the end of the day I don't blame Anders for doing what he did, as the Chantry itself commited many attrocities in the name of their cause.

Agree with both you and nightdragon. But I think Anders wanted to start something global not just in kirkwall. even if he killed all templars in kirkwall it wouldn't have that much global effect but blowing up the chantry on the other hand...

[EmperorSahlertz]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Shhh when your mood "how dear you attack my precious templars"

Read my first post again in which you missed point in your rage

here i will help

Only difference between anders and templars is that
that templars are controling law (what don't make them better) templars
strike civilians as well but they are mages if mages won and templars
acted way they act now they would be terrorists and anders law...

I am not being a pro-Templar numbskull... I am explaining why Anders IS a terrorst and the the Templars AREN'T. And in case YOU didn't read, I agreed with you that if the Templars continued their actions udner amges' laws, they would probably be considered terrorist.

But as I said, your reading comprehension and understanding is down the gutter, so any attempt at further debate with you is pointless.

No rly your attack said otherwise i mocked that they are that same in what you responded that they aren't actions are that same so you when you started ramble about law to protect templars when my point different...  

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

NO. If the mages were to win what the Templars has been doing would STILL not be terrorism. If they were to continue their actions THEN they could be considered terrorism.

I even bolded the part for you, so that you might have an easier time finding it. Though your comprehension thus far does not leave me with much hope that it helped...

[EmperorSahlertz]

Jaison1986 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Because birth of mages cannot be stopped and many mages are very good people. Also mages can do things mundanes can't even dream of with a wave of a hand. If control for mages is necessary then it should happen in a much better and civil way than circles. Do you really want to anger someone who can burn you an instant if they wanted to?
I said human rights doesn't exist in Thedas but that doesn't mean we should dehumanize mages.

"Mages are good people" what on sweet mother earth kind of asinine generalization is that? Mages are PEOPLE just like all the rest of us. They are only as good/bad as the next man.

And the problem with the Circles as of now is management, otehrwise it is a perfectly humane enviroment. There are good reasons for segregation of mages and mundanes. And I asked you to provide and in-world reasons for why a mundane would WANT  a mage to live next door, when the mundanes are very aware of the capabilties of the mage. Especially that whole demon part.
The mundanes would NOT want to live next to a mage. Not until education has improved across the board for the commoners of Thedas.

Said education does not happen because stupid Chantry dogma does not allow it. Take away their claim over mages then maybe we can start changing things. Maybe an mundane would want live next to an mage because they could easily heal them if they needed to? That would certanly be an advantage.

Uhm what? What proof do you have that the Chantry prevents education?.. So far all sources points towards the Chantry being one fo the few factions, who actually care about education at all.

Do you know how people react to having an ex-con moving in next to them? Usually with hostility. It would be the same with mages. Psychologically speaking.
No matter how much good this ex-con could potentially do for the community, the fact taht he is an ex-com will overshadow it. The same goes for mages (not to mention that lorewise healing spells are extremely difficult to learn, and thus mages who can actually heal are quite rare).

Now the one thing that the mage got going for them, which the ex-con doesn't, is the fact that the amges hasn't actually done anything wrong yet. However the people of Thedas are generally uneducated and ignorant towards the way magic works. They only know the dangers it poses. But with enough education people might start to udnerstand magic better, and thus naturally become more tolerant of mages.

However the mage-rebellion set a big nice stop for that whole natural evolution of society and instead forced the issue, setting society back several hundred years.

[TheKomandorShepard]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Shhh when your mood "how dear you attack my precious templars"

Read my first post again in which you missed point in your rage

here i will help

Only difference between anders and templars is that
that templars are controling law (what don't make them better) templars
strike civilians as well but they are mages if mages won and templars
acted way they act now they would be terrorists and anders law...

I am not being a pro-Templar numbskull... I am explaining why Anders IS a terrorst and the the Templars AREN'T. And in case YOU didn't read, I agreed with you that if the Templars continued their actions udner amges' laws, they would probably be considered terrorist.

But as I said, your reading comprehension and understanding is down the gutter, so any attempt at further debate with you is pointless.

No rly your attack said otherwise i mocked that they are that same in what you responded that they aren't actions are that same so you when you started ramble about law to protect templars when my point different...  

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

NO. If the mages were to win what the Templars has been doing would STILL not be terrorism. If they were to continue their actions THEN they could be considered terrorism.

I even bolded the part for you, so that you might have an easier time finding it. Though your comprehension thus far does not leave me with much hope that it helped...

You tried justify them with law as far i renember my point was completely different read first my comment again

[EmperorSahlertz]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

You tried justify them with law as far i renember my point was completely different read first my comment again

Your point was that if the mages were the lawgivers, then the actions of the Templars would be considered terrorism, if they were to continue such actions under a mage regime. And I agreed.

[TheKomandorShepard]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

You tried justify them with law as far i renember my point was completely different read first my comment again

Your point was that if the mages were the lawgivers, then the actions of the Templars would be considered terrorism, if they were to continue such actions under a mage regime. And I agreed.

My point was that what anders did isn't different that templars actions.

[Jaison1986]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Because birth of mages cannot be stopped and many mages are very good people. Also mages can do things mundanes can't even dream of with a wave of a hand. If control for mages is necessary then it should happen in a much better and civil way than circles. Do you really want to anger someone who can burn you an instant if they wanted to?
I said human rights doesn't exist in Thedas but that doesn't mean we should dehumanize mages.

"Mages are good people" what on sweet mother earth kind of asinine generalization is that? Mages are PEOPLE just like all the rest of us. They are only as good/bad as the next man.

And the problem with the Circles as of now is management, otehrwise it is a perfectly humane enviroment. There are good reasons for segregation of mages and mundanes. And I asked you to provide and in-world reasons for why a mundane would WANT  a mage to live next door, when the mundanes are very aware of the capabilties of the mage. Especially that whole demon part.
The mundanes would NOT want to live next to a mage. Not until education has improved across the board for the commoners of Thedas.

Said education does not happen because stupid Chantry dogma does not allow it. Take away their claim over mages then maybe we can start changing things. Maybe an mundane would want live next to an mage because they could easily heal them if they needed to? That would certanly be an advantage.

Uhm what? What proof do you have that the Chantry prevents education?.. So far all sources points towards the Chantry being one fo the few factions, who actually care about education at all.

Do you know how people react to having an ex-con moving in next to them? Usually with hostility. It would be the same with mages. Psychologically speaking.
No matter how much good this ex-con could potentially do for the community, the fact taht he is an ex-com will overshadow it. The same goes for mages (not to mention that lorewise healing spells are extremely difficult to learn, and thus mages who can actually heal are quite rare).

Now the one thing that the mage got going for them, which the ex-con doesn't, is the fact that the amges hasn't actually done anything wrong yet. However the people of Thedas are generally uneducated and ignorant towards the way magic works. They only know the dangers it poses. But with enough education people might start to udnerstand magic better, and thus naturally become more tolerant of mages.

However the mage-rebellion set a big nice stop for that whole natural evolution of society and instead forced the issue, setting society back several hundred years.

The Chantry teaches what is convenient for them. If you don't know, empress Celene founded the first university of Thedas in Orlais, were the children of nobles of the entire continent are sent to recieve the best education possible. And guess what, the Chantry takes great issue with what the they teach there as it many times goes against their dogma. Wich means they are against liberal education that would teach mundanes that mages aren't evil for simply having the power of magic and treat them with more respect. Like in this quote from their wiki:


Val Royeaux is home to the University of Orlais, a major center of learning that attracts young nobles from all over Thedas with the best education money can buy. It is a relatively modern institution whose liberal-minded professors have already clashed with religious conservatives over the content of their classes.

[EmperorSahlertz]

You are quoting an unsourced section of the wiki, and nothing I have been able to find supports what is claimed in that quote.

[Toasted Llama]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

1.Well word was censored but german doesn't mean **** and i pointed **** not germans and just give some people control over other social group well will end badly.

I know the N word is censored but it means german national socialists. And almost all germans were like that or brainwashed like that, yet that was all reverted as Germany is now co-operating with the rest of Europe. Making a difference between national socialist and the majority of germans in WW2 is like dividing green apples from red apples; they're both apples.

2.Opinion was born from hate emotions affect judgment well when it is just opinion that dislike something it isn't hate when hate is an emotion.  

Good god, let's just agree to disagree here. We're running in circles.

3.Wait you try to tell me that blight , zathrian curse and other incidents caused by abomnations is just my bul*** and was just a dream?I may disagree...

I am not denying it hasn't happened, but every single kind of species/people/race has their extremists. Loghain abandoned Ferelden's almost complete army and got nearly everyone killed in the process, just because he happened to disagree with the king. Orleisians and Fereldans have been at war, killing innocents and proving to be a threat and danger to eachother. The Crows have proven that mere money can corrupt humans and elves alike into assassination. Bhelen and Branka have proven that they are willingly to kill and sacrifice people for their own, twisted ideas and abuse the power they are given/born with. Qunari have been makig plans to take over Thedas for decades.  Now I don't see you making plans to rid Thedas of all humans, dwarves, elves or qunari despite the fact that they pose just as much of a risk as mages do. You may argue that "mages cannot control themselves", but I'd like to point out that there are much more non-magic people than there are mages and thus there are much more people posing a threat than mages/magic. Saying that, simply because some mages, like any other creature, have caused incidents in the past, is a valid argument to slaughter every single mage, is too extremistic and too biased.

4.Dude mage don't have to be bad (well who is bad and who isn't is your personal opinion i guess it is about evil and good). Good mage or evil mage it doesn't matter both have great potential to spread destruction and cause end of the world which in case "good" it won't be intentionally and i case evil it may be intentionally and not.So in the end morality doesn't matter abomnation can be good or evil mage.

Yet I'd like to argue that alot of mages such as Wynne, Irving and mages from Circle Towers and who died there due to old age, have proven that magic can definitely be controlled.

5.Bioware has own canon and bio said many times that their canon (dalish elf who did US) doesn't mean that it is our canon you have owon world , i have own and DG have own.And if we going to decide about matters mages and templar killing mages should be an option istead taking stupidy is only option like in da 2 ending and that was criticized by many players that didn't have motivation to help templars or mages.

And those choices are exactly what is going to destroy save imports. Radical and extremistic choices such as getting all mages killed are going to defeat the use of save imports, as a world with mages versus a world without mages would be too different to write another coherent story without retconning or not importing a decision. People are going to complain that, because they are given the option to do something in a series that heavily relies on save imports, their decisions are not carried over to the next game.

6.Well retcon is bad word because they were dead and game know that but somehow they
survived even if explanation is stupid.And well one character isn't choice on such big scale. 

Choices not carrying over or not being able to be imported is basically the same as retconning.

Well are mages are dangerous (however to call someone dangerous you need compare it to something) but yes mages are threat for every species in thedas and can cause end of the world and that is sufficient threat.Are they evil it is rather personal opinion i don't rly care if someone kick dogs or burn orphans as long that don't harm my goals.I see rather that is useful for me or not or is that threatens me or not.

I'm simply going to disagree here. Not even going to bother. If that's what you want, sure, go ahead, but don't bother people on this thread with your beliefs.

I don't see why they shouldn't let us do that should they let us import that well it depends and where da is going but choice should be allowed even if we can't import that like save with dead CS in ME 2 to me 3.    

It wouldn't be a problem if the games were all stand-alone games and not set in the same universe and all follow one another. But in the case of Dragon Age, they all follow one another and decisions are going to be limited and cannot be too drastical and world changing. Which is why, at most, you're given the option, but it will have barely to no effect.

I suggest you make a thread where you discuss your plans and ideas how to rid the world of Thedas of all mages instead of bothering people here.

Modifié par Toasted Llama, 27 décembre 2013 - 03:19 .

[Reaverwind]

Toasted Llama wrote...

I know the N word is censored but it means german national socialists. And almost all germans were like that or brainwashed like that, yet that was all reverted as Germany is now co-operating with the rest of Europe. Making a difference between national socialist and the majority of germans in WW2 is like dividing green apples from red apples; they're both apples.

I suggest you learn some actual history before you start spouting nonsense.

[Toasted Llama]

Reaverwind wrote...

I suggest you learn some actual history before you start spouting nonsense.

If the national socialists weren't at least in the majority, Hitler couldn't have risen to power. I'm certain not all germans were like that, but a huge amount surely was. And it is the huge amount that matters as this mindset, despite everything, is nowadays almost completely gone and a severe minority.

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

.
Uhm what? What proof do you have that the Chantry prevents education?.. So far all sources points towards the Chantry being one fo the few factions, who actually care about education at all.

And if you are in control of education you can also constrict it or be very selective in what you teach. this was the same issue for medieval church

Do you know how people react to having an ex-con moving in next to them? Usually with hostility. It would be the same with mages. Psychologically speaking.No matter how much good this ex-con could potentially do for the community, the fact taht he is an ex-com will overshadow it. The same goes for mages (not to mention that lorewise healing spells are extremely difficult to learn, and thus mages who can actually heal are quite rare).

Thus people are stupid but the point is to never give in to stupidity.

Now the one thing that the mage got going for them, which the ex-con doesn't, is the fact that the amges hasn't actually done anything wrong yet. However the people of Thedas are generally uneducated and ignorant towards the way magic works. They only know the dangers it poses. But with enough education people might start to udnerstand magic better, and thus naturally become more tolerant of mages.

Chantry doesnt benefit from that so that will never happen under chantry supervision.

However the mage-rebellion set a big nice stop for that whole natural evolution of society and instead forced the issue, setting society back several hundred years.

Or it will be forced forward we simply have to wait and see. but i know thedas wasnt getting anywhere with the chantry

[DKJaigen]

Toasted Llama wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

I suggest you learn some actual history before you start spouting nonsense.

If the national socialists weren't at least in the majority, Hitler couldn't have risen to power. I'm certain not all germans were like that, but a huge amount surely was. And it is the huge amount that matters as this mindset, despite everything, is nowadays almost completely gone and a severe minority.

Wrong. Democracy created a culture shock within germany and its people more or less wanted to return to the old imperial system .And hitler promised that them as well as settling some grievances with the allies that caused his rise. The need for a hierarchical is still completely dominant in germany. But the difference between now and then is that its no longer a major social offense to question your superiors.

Von Manstein was a brilliant tactican and hated hitlers guts. But when the allied asked him why he never defected or stopped fighting for the ****'s  he responded : Prussian officers do not mutiny. He was not joking even if the average whermacht soldier didnt like what hitler was doing the social way of live made it sure the whermacht remained loyal.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Toasted Llama wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

1.Well word was censored but german doesn't mean **** and i pointed **** not germans and just give some people control over other social group well will end badly.

I know the N word is censored but it means german national socialists. And almost all germans were like that or brainwashed like that, yet that was all reverted as Germany is now co-operating with the rest of Europe. Making a difference between national socialist and the majority of germans in WW2 is like dividing green apples from red apples; they're both apples.

2.Opinion was born from hate emotions affect judgment well when it is just opinion that dislike something it isn't hate when hate is an emotion.  

Good god, let's just agree to disagree here. We're running in circles.

3.Wait you try to tell me that blight , zathrian curse and other incidents caused by abomnations is just my bul*** and was just a dream?I may disagree...

I am not denying it hasn't happened, but every single kind of species/people/race has their extremists. Loghain abandoned Ferelden's almost complete army and got nearly everyone killed in the process, just because he happened to disagree with the king. Orleisians and Fereldans have been at war, killing innocents and proving to be a threat and danger to eachother. The Crows have proven that mere money can corrupt humans and elves alike into assassination. Bhelen and Branka have proven that they are willingly to kill and sacrifice people for their own, twisted ideas and abuse the power they are given/born with. Qunari have been makig plans to take over Thedas for decades.  Now I don't see you making plans to rid Thedas of all humans, dwarves, elves or qunari despite the fact that they pose just as much of a risk as mages do. You may argue that "mages cannot control themselves", but I'd like to point out that there are much more non-magic people than there are mages and thus there are much more people posing a threat than mages/magic. Saying that, simply because some mages, like any other creature, have caused incidents in the past, is a valid argument to slaughter every single mage, is too extremistic and too biased.

4.Dude mage don't have to be bad (well who is bad and who isn't is your personal opinion i guess it is about evil and good). Good mage or evil mage it doesn't matter both have great potential to spread destruction and cause end of the world which in case "good" it won't be intentionally and i case evil it may be intentionally and not.So in the end morality doesn't matter abomnation can be good or evil mage.

Yet I'd like to argue that alot of mages such as Wynne, Irving and mages from Circle Towers and who died there due to old age, have proven that magic can definitely be controlled.

5.Bioware has own canon and bio said many times that their canon (dalish elf who did US) doesn't mean that it is our canon you have owon world , i have own and DG have own.And if we going to decide about matters mages and templar killing mages should be an option istead taking stupidy is only option like in da 2 ending and that was criticized by many players that didn't have motivation to help templars or mages.

And those choices are exactly what is going to destroy save imports. Radical and extremistic choices such as getting all mages killed are going to defeat the use of save imports, as a world with mages versus a world without mages would be too different to write another coherent story without retconning or not importing a decision. People are going to complain that, because they are given the option to do something in a series that heavily relies on save imports, their decisions are not carried over to the next game.

6.Well retcon is bad word because they were dead and game know that but somehow they
survived even if explanation is stupid.And well one character isn't choice on such big scale. 

Choices not carrying over or not being able to be imported is basically the same as retconning.

Well are mages are dangerous (however to call someone dangerous you need compare it to something) but yes mages are threat for every species in thedas and can cause end of the world and that is sufficient threat.Are they evil it is rather personal opinion i don't rly care if someone kick dogs or burn orphans as long that don't harm my goals.I see rather that is useful for me or not or is that threatens me or not.

I'm simply going to disagree here. Not even going to bother. If that's what you want, sure, go ahead, but don't bother people on this thread with your beliefs.

I don't see why they shouldn't let us do that should they let us import that well it depends and where da is going but choice should be allowed even if we can't import that like save with dead CS in ME 2 to me 3.    

It wouldn't be a problem if the games were all stand-alone games and not set in the same universe and all follow one another. But in the case of Dragon Age, they all follow one another and decisions are going to be limited and cannot be too drastical and world changing. Which is why, at most, you're given the option, but it will have barely to no effect.

I suggest you make a thread where you discuss your plans and ideas how to rid the world of Thedas of all mages instead of bothering people here.

1.And yet racism still exist as well other prejudices and none person from that groups in real life could  destroy city or world mages can at any moment of their lifes so they will be heated and feared for good reason.

2.Well it isn't agree or not hate is emotion this is fact.

3.This is completly wrong one walking nuclear bomb is enough to surpass danger of peoples.As i said normal person can't cause alone even 1/100 damage as mage to cause huge damage person need army mage needs only moment of weakness to threaten and none of this groups you mentioned can't destroy world even if they wanted mages can.As i said 1 normal person-is danger only on individual level mage-is danger on local scale at worst through national ending on global so you would need huge army of normal peoples to be a threat on political scale because i doubt that army starts burn eveyrthing just because like abomnations. Life is about
survival and if you want survive you need eleminate danger and mages are this danger.

4.Few individuals vs thousands psychos we meet hardly is revelant when every mage is threat on such scale.Drizzt can be one good drow but that doesn't mean that every other drow isn't psycho.So even if we have half mages who could be stable it still doesn't change situation that half of them is danger not worth risk.

5.As i said even if don't want invole this in next import they should put that option instead stupid and naive solutions forcing you be pro-templar or pro-mage istead rapid and effective (more than any other) solution.Da is dark fantasy so i count on that instead stupid and naive solutions that simple wouldn't work in realistic and dark worlds. 
 
6.Not rly you attacked them that doesn't mean that you killed them retcon would be if character was permanently removed for example you destroyed character soul so character doesn't exist and then he/she appears in next product.

7.You can disagree or you are blind universe is clear mages can destroy world blight is one of examples that they are danger for every species in thedas and i don't mention abominations.Well i still don't see as
requirement to be naive if i want write in this thread.:innocent:

8.That depends on devs you could kill your shepard despite save import so well.
And i don't bother peoples well i can guess that some naive can have problem because i crush their wonderland with brutal fist of reality. I just discuss how this ideas don't have chance live longe and end positively.

[MisterJB]

There exists this pervasive notion that if one dislikes something, it must be because one is "ignorant" about that something. And yet, it is entirely impossible that knowledge of the characteristics of that something is actually what leads to disliking it. After all, we, the player, have acess to every piece of lore on DA magic that there is and a great number of us want to see mages separated from normal people.
Therefore, educating Thedas does not necessarely mean that people will become more tolerant of magic.
Unless, of course, by "education" one means "indocrination" in which case, sure, people can become more tolerant of mages much to their disgrace.

[Toasted Llama]

DKJaigen wrote...

Wrong. Democracy created a culture shock within germany and its people more or less wanted to return to the old imperial system .And hitler promised that them as well as settling some grievances with the allies that caused his rise. The need for a hierarchical is still completely dominant in germany. But the difference between now and then is that its no longer a major social offense to question your superiors.

Von Manstein was a brilliant tactican and hated hitlers guts. But when the allied asked him why he never defected or stopped fighting for the ****'s  he responded : Prussian officers do not mutiny. He was not joking even if the average whermacht soldier didnt like what hitler was doing the social way of live made it sure the whermacht remained loyal.

I was taught Hitler rose to power because of the punishment Germany received after the WW1. Not because they wanted the old imperial system, but because the majority of Germany was living in poverty and Hitler promised them wealth. Also being able to blame just about any non-german with jews in particular. Surely alot of people fled and definitely not everyone agreed, but still, all the information I've been thrown about WW2 suggest that a majority of Germans supported the nationalsocialists.

And I can actually confirm thanks to recent events that it is very plausible it happened that way and that it is also very plausible for the majority of germany to blindly follow. In my own country one of our political parties began to blame every immigrant and especially the islam for our economic crisis. And guess what? He got a record amount of votes. It wasn't a majority, but the rise in votes was seriously frightening how easily people are fooled to blame their problems on a scapegoat.

Either way it's irrevelant to this thread. We're talking about the mage-templar issue. Not the WW2 issue.

[Hazegurl]

Rassler wrote...

looks are subjective.

"all spirits are dangerous" doesn't do you credit when you are a blood mage and communicate wih demons via blood on a daily basis.

I agree. I don't approve of her dealings with Demons, but I still count her as more credible than Anders when it comes to handling them. She may have communicated with them but she wasn't stupid enough to get herself possessed.

nonetheless Anders knew he wasn't possessed without harming him.

Anders didn't realize the harmful effects of his possession until later. If he did he wouldn't have argued with Merrill about "beneficial spirits" and trying to apply good and bad qualities to them.

Fenris wants Anders dead and and approves if you kill anders. So what? Anders can approve Fenris becoming slave agian. It would make ME happy to make someone become a slave if my murder would make that someone happy. Anders approves of Fenris's slavery. Fenris approves of Anders death. as simple as that.

Fenris does not approve of Anders death until after he murdered countless people. By then Aveline and Sebastian wanted him dead. Varric was sick of him. Merrill only cared about the mages left to fiend for themselves and but thought Anders should at least make it right, and Isabella thought the plan was bold. By then who really wanted this moron around but the PC if they choose to keep them.

Anders doesn't want to be liked because Justice thinks friendships are distarctions. He only opens to hawke if hawke supports mages.

Wrong. I've rivaled Anders and he most certainly does want to be liked. He practically begs Hawke with his manifesto and he spends the entire game begging everyone to understand his so called plight.

Merill thinks anders deserves to live because she actually likes him. This becomes obvious when you put anders life to a vote at the end of act 3. besides the only pro mage companions are anders and merril anyway.

Also only anders can save your sibling. you mad?

Merrill doesn't care about Anders during Act 3. She cares about the mages whose lives are in danger and she can be persuaded to side with the Templars without even getting to 100% friendship or rivalry.

Anders placed Bethany's life in even more danger than ever before. She was happy in the Circle and safe because of Hawke's rep in Kirkwall.

Hawke can still side with the Templars, kill Anders, and kill off Bethany.  Or Hawke can Kill off Anders and still save his own sister. So much for being the only one who can save her.

And I typically have Carver as my sibling....so yeah nothing to be mad about overall.