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Mage and Templar Support Thread


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#126
Thrillian

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The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

KainD wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

I am not selfish.  I fully admit to being out for myself snd my own interests.  I don't mske up excuses to morally justify myself like these selfish groups do.


You are selfish, and you dont have to make any excuses. You will forever be moraly just in your own eyes, as will any other person. 

Check my sig. 


I doubt I can remove feeling guilt or regret. Wont stop me from doing whst I have to though, and frankly, I wouldn't want those feelings removed or absolved or rationalized away through moral mathematics. Ill do what needs to get done, and I'll experience the consequences for whag I've done when its all over and the dust settles.


See that's the difference between those who feel compassion, empathy, love, even sympathy.

We are capable of so much more than those who cannot feel. Even if our lives are cut short, we will have experienced 100x out tormentor's troubles.

#127
Thrillian

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I don't care what you feel and that in itself makes me mourn but not enough, not even half enough.

I guess the current reaction to all problems is "**** it"

I understand I guess.

Modifié par Thrillho_82, 19 décembre 2013 - 08:11 .


#128
Lotion Soronarr

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Cleatcleat wrote...
Everyone should study magic in classes right after language, math, gym, etc in school. While not everyone would have the talent to preform spells, they'd at least learn about magic and be better educated about it.



This is the middle ages, not a college campus.
Also you're dealign with demons and mind control, not something silly and irrelevant like skin color or whatever.


Clocks4 wrote...

Unless the process involves making the process of turning mage's
"Tranquil" strictly voluntary, should a mage wish to be made so, then
its still unfair to the mages. Doing so should result in the offending
templar(s) being immediately expelled from the order. An obvious
exception would be if a mage is caught in the act of working with demons
or using their magic to willfully do harm to innocents. This is the
only exception.


This is kinda how it works.
It is illegal to tranquil a Harrowed mage - unless he commited some serious crime


Also a new group, independent of both the chantry
AND the mages would have to be made to enforce fair treatment of
templars AND mages within the circle. These overseers would have the
right to force a templar to be relocated to a position where they do not
come into contact with mages, like working security at a temple, the
right to have templars or mages imprisoned, or to decide if the circle
needs to be put on lock down, like if the events of the circle in DA:O
were to be repeated.

That would make things more reasonable,
since templars wouldn't be able to get away with abusing their power,
but mages would still be kept under watch and made to learn how to
control their magic.



I'm just curious as to what would happen if THAT group become corrupted. I mean, any system, no matter how well devised, has poitns of faliure. And more redudancy, more control, more oversight, more beurocracy to migate it - they all do precious little, essentially turning it into a red queens race, just adding in inefficiencies.



TehKomandorShepard wrote...
How it doesn't have sense give someone complete power above someone and
that person will abuse it example templars and mages in tevinter both
don't have to fear consequences so they abuse weaker.


Umm..templars don't have complete power over mages.
They do have a lot of power over mages tough...especially in Kirkwall.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 19 décembre 2013 - 09:09 .


#129
Lotion Soronarr

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The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Good Samaritan laws aren't effective, and there is nothing wrong with walking away. Personally,  there's only one side that'll exist, and that's mine. Anyone who doesn't fall in line will die, mage or templar.


Aaaaand.. .thinking like that is exactly the source of all problems.

Of course, people will be people.
We can tolerate different behavior and people, but only up to a point, determined by our own criteria.

Ironicly, even the people who claim to be the most tolerant, aren't really.

#130
KainD

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Lotion Soronnar wrote...

We can tolerate different behavior and people, but only up to a point, determined by our own criteria.


There's also the matter of compitence and power of an individual. The more competent and powerful the individual, the less that individual will tolerate and vise-versa. 

#131
The Elder King

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I support the OP since I'm not sided with either factions and I want to find a compromise.
And as much as I want multiple outcomes for this war, the posts that stated that we have to pick a side and annihilate/enslave/destroy/whatever the other really make me wish that Bioware will go to the compromise route without any chances to destroy one side.

#132
KainD

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hhh89 wrote...
wish that Bioware will go to the compromise route without any chances to destroy one side.


They certainly can, it's just going to be very unrealistic. There is no chance compromise that would seem reasonable and would make sense. Like world peace unrealistic. 

#133
wolfhowwl

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hhh89 wrote...
wish that Bioware will go to the compromise route without any chances to destroy one side.


If they intend to continue with the save import after Inquisition expect the choice to not be offered or it to be streamlined to the same place in the next game anyways.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 19 décembre 2013 - 10:03 .


#134
Lotion Soronarr

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KainD wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
wish that Bioware will go to the compromise route without any chances to destroy one side.


They certainly can, it's just going to be very unrealistic. There is no chance compromise that would seem reasonable and would make sense. Like world peace unrealistic. 


There are reasonable compromises Kain...it's just that most mage supporters will not like them or would never accept them (even if most mages probably would)

#135
The Elder King

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KainD wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
wish that Bioware will go to the compromise route without any chances to destroy one side.


They certainly can, it's just going to be very unrealistic. There is no chance compromise that would seem reasonable and would make sense. Like world peace unrealistic. 

Reasonable for who? The mages/templars in the game, or the mage/templars supporters here? Because I fully expect that a compromise would disappointed part of pro-mages and pro-templars. 
I never stated that I want an 'happy forever after' compromise. Regardless of which side wins, or the solution found at the end of the war, the problem will be solved (unless there's a Synthesis-type of ending). That doesn't mean I should prefer a solution when either mages/templars/mundanes are annihilated/enslaved.
@wolfhowwl: I fully expect a single solution to the war due to the save imports; that doesn't mean I should like it. 
Though I doubt is something we'll be concerned in DAI. I don't expect the war to end soon.

Modifié par hhh89, 19 décembre 2013 - 11:38 .


#136
Jaison1986

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Lotion Soronnar wrote...

KainD wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
wish that Bioware will go to the compromise route without any chances to destroy one side.


They certainly can, it's just going to be very unrealistic. There is no chance compromise that would seem reasonable and would make sense. Like world peace unrealistic. 


There are reasonable compromises Kain...it's just that most mage supporters will not like them or would never accept them (even if most mages probably would)


Compromise is such an pretty word, since what we really are talking about it complete subjulgation. I don't need to compromise because I own nothing to the templars or the Chantry. I would rather compromise with the leadership and nobility, since at least they have an semblance of understanding.

#137
The Elder King

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Nobility has some semblance of understanding? Since when?

#138
General TSAR

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thetinyevil wrote...
YOU ARE DEHUMANIZING THEM! THEY WOULD NOT GET ANYMORE RIGHTS IN  A GENERATION OR TWO! MORE RIGHTS WOULD BE TAKEN FROM THEM!!! THEY WOULD BE MADE INTO WORK ANIMALS! 

Also MAGES CAN CONTROL THEIR ****ING POWER! THEY ARE NOT BOMBS WAITING TO GO OFF! 

Someone better call the waaahmbulance.

#139
Afro_Explosion

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Before a comprimise is made both sides need to be reminded the opposition aren't monsters, and if we can get mages back into a better circle assign templar recruits to apprentice mages to try and promote friendships,that would make the templars seem less like opressors and more like guardians.

#140
Lotion Soronarr

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Jaison1986 wrote...

Compromise is such an pretty word, since what we really are talking about it complete subjulgation. I don't need to compromise because I own nothing to the templars or the Chantry. I would rather compromise with the leadership and nobility, since at least they have an semblance of understanding.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

This one is too funny.

Nobiltiy would surely treat mages better. Yeah right.
They would totally want a threat to their power (and mind) and would NEVER consider subjugating them.

#141
General TSAR

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mx_keep13 wrote...

Before a comprimise is made both sides need to be reminded the opposition aren't monsters, and if we can get mages back into a better circle assign templar recruits to apprentice mages to try and promote friendships,that would make the templars seem less like opressors and more like guardians.

Fraternization between Dangerous Inmates and Guards is a disaster waiting to happen.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie][smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie][smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie][smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie][smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

This one is too funny.

Nobiltiy would surely treat mages better. Yeah right. 
They would totally want a threat to their power (and mind) and would NEVER consider subjugating them.


The naivete is most amusing.

Modifié par General TSAR, 19 décembre 2013 - 01:10 .


#142
dragonflight288

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KainD wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

We can tolerate different behavior and people, but only up to a point, determined by our own criteria.


There's also the matter of compitence and power of an individual. The more competent and powerful the individual, the less that individual will tolerate and vise-versa. 



Not completely true, and in many cases, not true at all. The more competent a person is, they'll use what actions are necessary for what's required in those particular circumstances. In some cases, that'll require making concessions and being more tolerant of certain actions in exchange for another action that promotes the peace, or some other greater agenda, and constantly works towards that greater goal and is unafraid to give up small and ultimately inconsequential things when it comes to that goal.

In other cases, that same person may clamp down on it and not allow any concessions or compromises at all because they ultimately wouldn't do anything to help.

When an idealogue is put in charge and refuse to compromise on anything, they are just as incapable of leadership as someone who wants to play nice and makes concessions on everything.

#143
dragonflight288

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Crap, double post.

Anyway, getting this thread back on topic.

Many of us, in in part me as well, believe that there can be no true compromise between templars and mages. The mages are now free and will never allow themselves to be placed under the yoke of the templars again since it has been proven time and again that the templar order cannot be trusted with their well-being, and oftentimes has shown itself to be thoroughly abusive without fear of reprisal. But even the most staunchest mag supporter cannot ignore how dangerous an untrained or a corrupt mage can be. An untrained mage is a considerable danger to himself and those around him, whether lighting a kid's head on fire (Wynne) or getting possessed due to a lack of knowledge (Connor.) And a trained mage criminal has the potential to be absolutely devastating, especially if they happen to be a blood mage.

So instead, let's focus on an ultimate end goal. What do templars truly wish to prevent? Mages roaming free because of what they might do, or untrained mages accidentally or stupidly getting themselves and those around them killed?

And what do mages truly with to achieve? Freedom? They have it now, and have to fight every step of the way to keep it. Safety? While they didn't have it in the Circle's, they also most certainly don't have it now either. A life free of abuse? They are now well on their way of achieving that.

Ultimately, what is the end-goal of the templars and templar-supporters, and what is the ultimate end goal for mages and mage-supporters? And do those end goals have any ground to stand on when it comes to compromise and peace? If there is ground to stand on for those end goals, then compromise and peace IS a possibility, but it'll also require a great deal of concessions from both sides, something I think neither side is willing to truly give, however.

#144
Medhia Nox

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Seriously - you two factions had best resolve your positions before my Inquisitor gets into town.

Cause then it's follow, get out of my way, or be taken out of my way.

#145
Senya

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Medhia Nox wrote...

Seriously - you two factions had best resolve your positions before my Inquisitor gets into town.

Cause then it's follow, get out of my way, or be taken out of my way.


Hail Inquisitor! :police:

#146
Vit246

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almostinsane99 wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

Seriously - you two factions had best resolve your positions before my Inquisitor gets into town.

Cause then it's follow, get out of my way, or be taken out of my way.


Hail Inquisitor! :police:


They will bend the knee or I will destroy them.

#147
Grand Admiral Cheesecake

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We could totally use all the dead mages to build roads.

Think about it! The Mage issue gets resolved and Thedas gets nifty paved roads! Everybody wins!

#148
Veruin

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I prefer feeding our mabaris with the flesh of the vanquished. Maybe pass on some magic resistance.

#149
Plaintiff

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thetinyevil wrote...

KainD wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

YOU ARE DEHUMANIZING THEM! Did you not read the whole thing? THEY WOULD NOT GET ANYMORE RIGHTS IN  A GENERATION OR TWO! MORE RIGHTS WOULD BE TAKEN FROM THEM!!! THEY WOULD BE MADE INTO WORK ANIMALS! 

Also MAGES CAN CONTROL THEIR ****ING POWER! THEY ARE NOT BOMBS WAITING TO GO OFF! 


ROFL

I'm thinking of two words right now. Can you guess what they are?

Chocolate pancakes?

#150
Plaintiff

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Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

We could totally use all the dead mages to build roads.

Think about it! The Mage issue gets resolved and Thedas gets nifty paved roads! Everybody wins!

A good comedian keeps his material fresh, Cheescake.