891 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

TK514 wrote...

SgtSteel91 wrote...

TK514 wrote...

As for the Templars having 'proven time and again' to be untrustworthy regarding the mages' well being, were that true the Circle system wouldn't have survived for a thousand years without rebellion.  Were things always as bad as the narrative necessities we've seen, every single Circle would have gone through cycles of Annullment and Rebellion, and this would be just another sporadic brushfire amongst a history of them, instead of the unheard of event it purports to be.  The fact of the matter is that we have, for narrative reasons, seen the worst of both factions rather than what is normal for either.  This rebellion is the result of individuals grasping for power, who are charismatic, ruthless, and lucky enough to direct the general populace toward their ends.

Well the Right of Annulment has been done 17 times in the last 700 years it was started. That's about an Annulment and killing every mage in a Circle every 41 years.

and how many rebellions from the remaining Circles in that time?

1. White Spire. Dairsmuid and Kirkwall only "rebelled" after the Right
was invoked. We have no other info on how other Circle reacted.

[MisterJB]

There was no Right of Annulment invoked in the White Spire.
And the mages of Dairsmuid were already fighting the Templars before they invoked the Right.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Why is it right and not rite?

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 19 décembre 2013 - 07:43 .

[Lord Raijin]

TK514,

It is an illusion thinking that the mages must depend on their jailers for protection against the outside world. This is EXACTLY what the Chantry wants... to spread fear so that people can depend on them and their religious army to protect them against the mages. While some mundanes hate the mages an overwhelming of them actually support them, like the situation in Kirkwall. A bunch of refugees in lowtown was willing to fight to the death to protect 1 apostate mage; Anders. Knight-Captain Cullen indicated that the Templar Order use to be popular with the people now they get the door shut on them.

I'm sure Mages and mundanes can coexist peacefully without the aid of the Chantry and the Templar's/Seekers.

[Medhia Nox]

@Lord Raijin: What would you say if Bioware disagreed with you?

If every example they present shows either mages or mundanes dominating the other - what would think of that?

[Plaintiff]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Lord Raijin: What would you say if Bioware disagreed with you?

If every example they present shows either mages or mundanes dominating the other - what would think of that?

I would think either a) they have a limited perspective or they're doing it deliberately to make some sort of bleak, nihilist point.

And I would reject it, just like I reject the premise in Mass Effect that synthetics and... evolvions or what-the-****-ever they're called can only destroy each other.

Organics, that was it. Synthetics and organics.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 19 décembre 2013 - 07:49 .

[Lord Raijin]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Lord Raijin: What would you say if Bioware disagreed with you?

If every example they present shows either mages or mundanes dominating the other - what would think of that?

They disagreed with me? You must show me this prove in a form of a post/interview/etc.

Many of the Mages from the south do not want to "dominate" the other. They want their freedom, and that is exactly what they're fighting for now. The Chantry/Seekers/Templar's are so terrified of giving them their freedom that they believe that it will result in another Tevinter Imperium.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 19 décembre 2013 - 07:49 .

[Ravensword]

So, how about those demons in the Fade? Pretty scary folks, if you ask me.

Modifié par Ravensword, 19 décembre 2013 - 07:50 .

[Lord Raijin]

Ravensword wrote...

So, how about those demons in the Fade?

They deserve their freedom too.

[Br3admax]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Why is it right and not rite?

Because it has nothing to do with their religion. It is the right of the Knigh Commander to kill all mages, and make the tower safe again. 

[Medhia Nox]

@Plaintiff: I would agree, but it is their bleak, nihilistic point to make if they wish. I would disagree on their limited perspective however. If their statement that the very nature of magic is a fantasy version of "Haves" and "Have Nots" - I would actually find a commitment to that exploration engaging.

It is the very sense of entitlement I believe many forum Pro-Mages display that turns me against the rebellion as a mage.

I'm not supporting it - I am simply trying to suggest alternatives to what's being stated as "fact".

Note: I am also not saying that they have committed to any such exploration of themes. I am just pointing out that an exploration of themes does not mean that the creator has a limited perspective.

[Lord Raijin]

Br3ad wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Why is it right and not rite?

Because it has nothing to do with their religion. It is the right of the Knigh Commander to kill all mages, and make the tower safe again. 

Not without permission from the Grand Cleric

[Veruin]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Not without permission from the Grand Cleric

I think the knight commander still has to be the one to invoke the right in the first place.

[Lord Raijin]

Veruin wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Not without permission from the Grand Cleric

I think the knight commander still has to be the one to invoke the right in the first place.

Only after the Grand Cleric approves of it.... unless if the Grand Cleric has been assasinated then the Knight-Commander has the right to invoke the R.o.A.

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Not without permission from the Grand Cleric

I think the knight commander still has to be the one to invoke the right in the first place.

But he can't do **** unless the Grand Cleric OKs it. 

[Veruin]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Only after the Grand Cleric approves of it.... unless if the Grand Cleric has been assasinated then the Knight-Commander has the right to invoke the R.o.A.

My point is, it's the knight commander who has to start it in the first place.  It comes down to the Grand Cleric to let them carry it out.

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Raijin wrote...
Only after the Grand Cleric approves of it.... unless if the Grand Cleric has been assasinated then the Knight-Commander has the right to invoke the R.o.A.

But even then, they can't carry it out until they get an OK from another Grand Cleric or the Divine. 

[AresKeith]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Veruin wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Not without permission from the Grand Cleric

I think the knight commander still has to be the one to invoke the right in the first place.

Only after the Grand Cleric approves of it.... unless if the Grand Cleric has been assasinated then the Knight-Commander has the right to invoke the R.o.A.

So Anders is to blame from what happened in Kirkwall

[Medhia Nox]

And - while I do not think Annulments are a solution.

Do we really think a mage would have an non-bias perspective on whether or not to Annul a tower?

Why would the First Enchanter be asked - assuming the First Enchanter wasn't trapped inside the Circle being forcibly converted into an abomination.

I think a "Right of Quarantine" would be more appropraite... demons seem woefully inept at keeping their cool.

[Ravensword]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

So, how about those demons in the Fade?

They deserve their freedom too.

Lol. You're funny. I like you.

Modifié par Ravensword, 19 décembre 2013 - 07:59 .

[Hellion Rex]

AresKeith wrote...
So Anders is to blame from what happened in Kirkwall

Yes. That is not in question. Meredith's reaction though is what is being called into question. She had no legal right to carry out the Rite. 

[Plaintiff]

AresKeith wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Veruin wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Not without permission from the Grand Cleric

I think the knight commander still has to be the one to invoke the right in the first place.

Only after the Grand Cleric approves of it.... unless if the Grand Cleric has been assasinated then the Knight-Commander has the right to invoke the R.o.A.

So Anders is to blame from what happened in Kirkwall

Of course. No Templar is ever responsible for their own choices. The mages always made them do it.

It's the George Zimmerman school of self-defense.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@The Admiral Cheescake: I will now commence with the destruction of your town's bakery to prove that you cannot control Moderate Neo-Luddites any longer!

Noooooo! That bakery is owned and operated by only the specialist of special snowflakes! Don't oppress them!

[Cainhurst Crow]

But aren't the templars and grand cleric both parts of a religious order? I can't really say they are 100% secular in their approaches to the situation nor claim that the person in charge of the local church has no religious affiliation.

And even removing the religious aspect, it just makes more grammatical sense. A rite is an act or ceremony, an action pretty much. While a right is a given consent of the state that requires no action from anyone to preform, basically an allowance.

The annulment is a process requiring an action that needs pre-approval to enact, and is ordered to be carried out only by those of the religious affiliation with the church. Wouldn't it make more sense that the rite of annulment be the correct term, since it is the action of destroying all dangerous or potentially dangerous elements from the circle, rather then a right of the knight commander to annul a circle whenever they wish that is unalienable by the state?

[Medhia Nox]

@Plaintiff: Be fair though - both sides say that ALL the time.

I've seen Pro-Mages not only condone, but promote, all manner of disgusting actions in the name of vengeance disguised as justice.

And Pro-Templars that think locking up a bunch of people instead of actually given them a chance to prove they're as safe as they claim is a solution not worth changing.