64 réponses à ce sujet

[thats1evildude]

andy69156915 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

How on earth are you supposed to jump out of that? Levitate yourself first?

So I imagine. Mages must be able to levitate, else how does Flemeth get into her portion of her hut?

She's a shapeshifter. She can just turn into a bird and fly up to the second level or transform into a spider and crawl up the walls.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 20 décembre 2013 - 12:10 .

[PsychoBlonde]

animedreamer wrote...

 I mean at all...

I can't recall seeing a single window. 

There were windows, they were just on the floors you couldn't see until you came back later in the game.  (They were also high up so you couldn't actually see OUT of them.) This is not unusual in tower construction--windows on lower levels are structural weak points and often can't support the weight of the upper floors.

[Northern Sun]

I just did the mage origin a couple days ago, and during it "Templar Bran" will respond to the player's question if there's anyway out aside from the door by saying there are windows on the upper floors, but advises against jumping.

[The Hierophant]

Orian Tabris wrote...

No, because Uldred didn't WANT to destroy the tower. He wanted to take it over, as a base/starting point for his mage take-over of Thedas.

I'll agree to disagree as there's no feats that support the notion that Uldred and his demon crew could've punched holes through Kinloch's walls.

[Sifr]

The Hierophant wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

No, because Uldred didn't WANT to destroy the tower. He wanted to take it over, as a base/starting point for his mage take-over of Thedas.

I'll agree to disagree as there's no feats that support the notion that Uldred and his demon crew could've punched holes through Kinloch's walls.

Specially as the Kinloch Hold was built by the Avvars to keep the Tevinters out, meaning it's walls are just as capable of keeping things in.

And as someone mentioned above, Templar Bran says that it's about fifty feet to the ground if you try to escape via window.

Modifié par Sifr1449, 20 décembre 2013 - 12:58 .

[Estelindis]

Windows are problematic. The more visually realistic a game is, the more it would seem to make sense to be able to look through windows. However, unless everything in a region is built into a single giant area, it's a lot of extra work to make windows through which people can look (e.g. unique mini-skybox for every window). Bioware's usual style seems to involve separate interiors and exteriors.

[Krypplingz]

More windows.
http://images2.wikia...ing_Chamber.png

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

"There are windows on the higher levels, but surely you don't need me to warn you of the dangers of leaping from them. It never ends well." Templar in Mage Origin

Confirms both windows and mages being unable to levitate.

Edit: Never mind, turns out to be duplicate. Though since I've already posted, I'll note that while magical flight is possible for shapechangers (Edit: I think. Do we see Flemeth do this?), the Circle Mages don't believe it or teleporation to be possible at all. There's a Codex called "The Cardinal Rules Of Magic," and while I think all those rules have been broken (or at least bent to the point of being meaningless) by now, the Circles teach them as fact. Thus, the Circle can't do these things.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 20 décembre 2013 - 01:32 .

[The Hierophant]

Sifr1449 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

No, because Uldred didn't WANT to destroy the tower. He wanted to take it over, as a base/starting point for his mage take-over of Thedas.

I'll agree to disagree as there's no feats that support the notion that Uldred and his demon crew could've punched holes through Kinloch's walls.

Specially as the Kinloch Hold was built by the Avvars to keep the Tevinters out, meaning it's walls are just as capable of keeping things in.
And as someone mentioned above, Templar Bran says that it's about fifty feet to the ground if you try to escape via window.

Agreed.
Thanks for the reminder about the tower's windows.

[andy6915]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

"There are windows on the higher levels, but surely you don't need me to warn you of the dangers of leaping from them. It never ends well." Templar in Mage Origin

Confirms both windows and mages being unable to levitate.

Edit: Never mind, turns out to be duplicate. Though since I've already posted, I'll note that while magical flight is possible for shapechangers, the Circle Mages don't believe it or teleporation to be possible at all. There's a Codex called "The Cardinal Rules Of Magic," and while I think all those rules have been broken (or at least bent to the point of being meaningless) by now, the Circles teach them as fact. Thus, the Circle can't do these things.

Well... In my post about Flemeth, even if she can turn into a bird or something, she is Flemeth. If there's any mage who has figured out levitation, it would be her.

Anyway, how could anyone get out those windows if typical mages can't levitate? They're about 20 up. What, do mages who try to esape secretely hand-make some kind of grapple hook or some kind of climbing gear for their hands and feet? Now I'm picturing Anders throwing a grapple hook to the window and climbing it to to escape.

Modifié par andy69156915, 20 décembre 2013 - 01:35 .

[Krypplingz]

Go to the top floor with some spare sheets. (Bribe the tranquil with chocolate or fake the First Enchanter signature.) Jump over the fence, smash the lower windows and jump, holding on to the corners of the sheets.
If the maker favors you, you'll float away. If he doesn't, you'll make a nice stain on the ground. And remember: Blood makes the grass grow!.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

andy69156915 wrote...

Well... In my post about Flemeth, even if she can turn into a bird or something, she is Flemeth. If there's any mage who has figured out levitation, it would be her.

Wouldn't surprise me. She did manage to bend the law against coming back from the dead to the breaking point.

Anyway, how could anyone get out those windows if typical mages can't levitate? They're about 20 up. What, do mages who try to esape secretely hand-make some kind of grapple hook or some kind of climbing gear for their hands and feet? Now I'm picturing Anders throwing a grapple hook to the window and climbing it to to escape.

They'd be higher up than that. A thirty foot drop is more or less survivable, so I figure any window there or lower would be bricked up to the point of being just another bit of stone in the wall.

[andy6915]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

They'd be higher up than that. A thirty foot drop is more or less survivable, so I figure any window there or lower would be bricked up to the point of being just another bit of stone in the wall.

No, I mean 20 feet up from the floor, not the ground outside the tower. I'm actually playing DAO again and am doing Broken Circle right now. It's how I knew there were windows so that looking for a pic for evidence was worthwhile. And the windows seem to be roughly 20 feet up from the ground of each floor. So a mage with a grapple would need to get up 20 feet to reach the window, and then have to latch the hook to the outside part of the window once on the other side of the window to then climb down the outside of the tower. Seems it's a lot more work to escape from the windows than the dialogue would paint it. Yet... I bet some mages, like Anders, would actually put the amount of work in to do it. Hell, there's probably a couple of ropes hanging from the tower from all the mages who used their own grapple hooks to reach the ground.

Modifié par andy69156915, 20 décembre 2013 - 01:58 .

[The Hierophant]

Krypplingz wrote...
Go to the top floor with some spare sheets. (Bribe the tranquil with chocolate or fake the First Enchanter signature.) Jump over the fence, smash the lower windows and jump, holding on to the corners of the sheets. If the maker favors you, you'll float away. If he doesn't, you'll make a nice stain on the ground. And remember: Blood makes the grass grow!

Naw sheets are too mundane. It's cooler to craft wings made from thousands of feathers and wax instead. During the escape attempt I Believe I Can Fly plays in the background before the ill fated leap.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 20 décembre 2013 - 02:28 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

andy69156915 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

They'd be higher up than that. A thirty foot drop is more or less survivable, so I figure any window there or lower would be bricked up to the point of being just another bit of stone in the wall.

No, I mean 20 feet up from the floor, not the ground outside the tower. I'm actually playing DAO again and am doing Broken Circle right now. It's how I knew there were windows so that looking for a pic for evidence was worthwhile. And the windows seem to be roughly 20 feet up from the ground of each floor. So a mage with a grapple would need to get up 20 feet to reach the window, and then have to latch the hook to the outside part of the window once on the other side of the window to then climb down the outside of the tower. Seems it's a lot more work to escape from the windows than the dialogue would paint it.

Well, the Tower is meant to be difficult to escape.

Yet... I bet some mages, like Anders, would actually put the amount of work in to do it. Hell, there's probably a couple of ropes hanging from the tower from all the mages who used their own grapple hooks to reach the ground.

There wouldn't be more than a few. Getting the supplies would be difficult when you're in a situation designed to lend itself to constant surveillance. (Though getting around this wouldn't be impossible. Uldred manages this quite well building his army.) Then there's the problem of actually managing to hook it without a Templar seeing this and either summarily executing you or just knocking you flat on the ground.

[andy6915]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

There wouldn't be more than a few. Getting the supplies would be difficult when you're in a situation designed to lend itself to constant surveillance. (Though getting around this wouldn't be impossible. Uldred manages this quite well building his army.) Then there's the problem of actually managing to hook it without a Templar seeing this and either summarily executing you or just knocking you flat on the ground.

They're vigilant, but not perfect. There are places in the tower that would be much empty of anyone depending on the time of day, and it's not like they have a camera system or something.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Fair enough. That just leads the problem of getting the stuff you need without it being missed or found in your stuff.

[andy6915]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Fair enough. That just leads the problem of getting the stuff you need without it being missed or found in your stuff.

All you need is something long and cloth and metal in the form of an every day object. Bedding, strings for holding robes shut, a rug pulled apart, even clothes themselves, all would work in place of a rope if tied right.

And metal in any form would work, a lamp or a door handle, or a bucket, all would work because the mage could use magic fire to heat the metal to reform it however they want (into a claw for the hook). The hard part would be being able to reform molten or softened metal without burning yourself, but mages can shoot fire out of their hands without burning them...



Well okay, mostly without burning them, so clearly they have some resistance to fire and heat they conjured themselves. Or maybe they use metal tongs from the kitchen or something.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Yeah, but the real problem is that stuff will go missing. Who's to say the Templars won't find out long before the hook is ready that someone wants one?

[andy6915]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Yeah, but the real problem is that stuff will go missing. Who's to say the Templars won't find out long before the hook is ready that someone wants one?

I doubt they keep track of every little object and item in the tower. Someone stealing a little metal bathing (or maybe for poop) pot from the "restroom" areas won't be missed. And a rope shouldn't be too hard, just sneak into that big storage area where you can fight spiders in the mage origin or go into the stockroom when Owen is sleeping (he won't miss a rope going missing), both should have rope avaiable.

Or maybe a mage can just use magic or something to just make their hands sticky and literally climb the wall? Or just make a spell wisp and hold onto it at it flies you up? Or, while not a true spell you can use in the game, why not a glyph that flings upward when stepped on and just run into it to jump up there? Or maybe use lightning magic to make your hands covered in static electricity and climb the wall thanks to that? Magic lets you do all kinds of things that could get you up there, even without levitation.

Modifié par andy69156915, 20 décembre 2013 - 03:28 .

[Guns]

INB4 Dwyn's home had no kitchen Thread.

[Orian Tabris]

Guns wrote...

INB4 Dwyn's home had no kitchen Thread.

What about 'The Alienage had no outdoor toilet?' thread? <_<

[andy6915]

Orian Tabris wrote...

Guns wrote...

INB4 Dwyn's home had no kitchen Thread.

What about 'The Alienage had no outdoor toilet?' thread? <_<

Doesn't everyone in DA use chamber pots and similar stuff? What do you think all those wooden seat shaped buckets all throughout the game are (can find a lot of them in the stalls of the restrooms of the circle tower)? They're the poop buckets. They then go dump them somewhere else one they get too full.

[Skorm777]

andy69156915 wrote...

It does. But they are very high up, near the ceiling. You wouldn't be able to see directly through them. Here's a pic, note the sunlight streaming in near the ceiling through the windows.

There you go, this post should have been the end of the thread. 

[dragonflight288]

In the mage origin, the Templar guarding the door says that the front door is the only safe way and there ARE windows in the upper levels, and he dryly comments jumping from them wouldn't end well.

Unless you're a shapeshifter, but Wynne calls Morrigan a maleficar despite Morrigan not being a blood mage because she practices a form of magic that isn't Chantry sanctioned so *shrug*