750 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

billy the squid wrote...


By and large I don't think it would be, if like those, it was free with every new copy of the game and I didn'tr have to pre order it. I could go and pick up DAO a month after release, new, for £25 and still get the DLC free, that I'd be willing to accept. 

Pay gating it behind the collectors editions or pre ordering to gain access. No, any publisher can go cram it up their arse, unless they have a seriously good track record behind them for me to even consider pre ordering. 

Which is why the op's point ids biast. It's not that day one dlc is inherirtly wrong. It's how it's done that is right or wrong.

[addiction21]

billy the squid wrote...

And the fact it was only available with the collector's edition and not the normal one. That should indicate to anyone, who isn't completely deluded, that it's an incentive to push people to buy an upgraded version of the game, rather than just the normal one.

Whoa something was bundled to a collectors edition to entice people to buy it... I am shocked and dismayed at this entirely recent development that only BioWare, EA and ME3 are guilty of.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Effect_3_N7_Collector's_Edition

Of course From Ashes is far from the only thing provided in the collectors edition.

[Sanunes]

addiction21 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

And the fact it was only available with the collector's edition and not the normal one. That should indicate to anyone, who isn't completely deluded, that it's an incentive to push people to buy an upgraded version of the game, rather than just the normal one.

Whoa something was bundled to a collectors edition to entice people to buy it... I am shocked and dismayed at this entirely recent development that only BioWare, EA and ME3 are guilty of.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Effect_3_N7_Collector's_Edition

Of course From Ashes is far from the only thing provided in the collectors edition.

They aren't the only ones, its just more public with them, with Borderlands 2 there is  DLC to get the digital content and its the same with BioShock Infinite, Assassin's Creed 3 and 4 too.

[leaguer of one]

addiction21 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

And the fact it was only available with the collector's edition and not the normal one. That should indicate to anyone, who isn't completely deluded, that it's an incentive to push people to buy an upgraded version of the game, rather than just the normal one.

Whoa something was bundled to a collectors edition to entice people to buy it... I am shocked and dismayed at this entirely recent development that only BioWare, EA and ME3 are guilty of.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Effect_3_N7_Collector's_Edition

Of course From Ashes is far from the only thing provided in the collectors edition.

The issue is not that there was a collector's edition made. The issue was what was put in it. Javik's content. In the case of Javik everyone payed $10 extra to get him via collectors addition or dlc. This is not an issue to you?

[addiction21]

leaguer of one wrote...

The issue is not that there was a collector's edition made. The issue was what was put in it. Javik's content. In the case of Javik everyone payed $10 extra to get him via collectors addition or dlc. This is not an issue to you?

No because Javik was part of that WHOLE collectors edition. Everyone paid more for the collectors edition to get THE COLLECTORS EDITION and just one of the things provided happened to be the DLC. Some might have bought it for the DLC other (I do hope this is not a surprise) bought it for the other items and the DLC was a bonus.

This is not the first time either. DAO digital deluxe came with Wardens keep DA2s Signature edition included Sebastion.

leaguer of one wrote...

The issue is not that there was a collector's edition made. The issue was what was put in it. Javik's content. In the case of Javik everyone payed $10 extra to get him via collectors addition or dlc. This is not an issue to you?

I am just not understanding why its a issue. It is expected if you are going to get the Collectors, special, deluxe, signature edition of a game and pay a little more that it comes with extras. It happens one of those things was a DLC so what? I don't see them complaining about how they did get the patch or the soundtrack with the base game or that these things should be free.

Modifié par addiction21, 23 décembre 2013 - 10:08 .

[leaguer of one]

addiction21 wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

The issue is not that there was a collector's edition made. The issue was what was put in it. Javik's content. In the case of Javik everyone payed $10 extra to get him via collectors addition or dlc. This is not an issue to you?

No because Javik was part of that WHOLE collectors edition. Everyone paid more for the collectors edition to get THE COLLECTORS EDITION and just one of the things provided happened to be the DLC. Some might have bought it for the DLC other (I do hope this is not a surprise) bought it for the other items and the DLC was a bonus.

This is not the first time either. DAO digital deluxe came with Wardens keep DA2s Signature edition included Sebastion.

1. The dao was dd edition was different because it did not hold story or character that were heavly involded with the story.
2.DA2 signature edition was just a pre order bonus... A limited one. There is no extra cost with getting it.

3. Javik was still place in the collector editon after it was annouced. That still makes it an issue. With what you get with the colletor edition compeared to Javik's dlc it clear they they are trying to make people charge extra for the content. He even has an impact to the plot.

[leaguer of one]

addiction21 wrote...



I am just not understanding why its a issue. It is expected if you are going to get the Collectors, special, deluxe, signature edition of a game and pay a little more that it comes with extras. It happens one of those things was a DLC so what? I don't see them complaining about how they did get the patch or the soundtrack with the base game or that these things should be free.

Outside of the fact that the dlc has a very strong impact to the plot with a character any ME fan would want to experice because he's from a legendary dead race and the fact that everyone is force to pay extra for him?

[Il Divo]

leaguer of one wrote...

addiction21 wrote...



I am just not understanding why its a issue. It is expected if you are going to get the Collectors, special, deluxe, signature edition of a game and pay a little more that it comes with extras. It happens one of those things was a DLC so what? I don't see them complaining about how they did get the patch or the soundtrack with the base game or that these things should be free.

Outside of the fact that the dlc has a very strong impact to the plot with a character any ME fan would want to experice because he's from a legendary dead race and the fact that everyone is force to pay extra for him?

I'm not sure why this is an argument against Javik. Ideally, your dlc should be motivating players to say "I have to have that".

As written, Javik doesn't provide any additional information on the main plot, besides telling us that unshockingly he knows nothing about the Crucible. If your dlc is regarded as take it or leave it, players likely will not be interesting in purchasing it.

Similarly, Leliana the bard doesn't motivate a sale as strongly as Shale, the giant golem.

[addiction21]

leaguer of one wrote...

1. The dao was dd edition was different because it did not hold story or character that were heavly involded with the story.
2.DA2 signature edition was just a pre order bonus... A limited one. There is no extra cost with getting it.

3. Javik was still place in the collector editon after it was annouced. That still makes it an issue. With what you get with the colletor edition compeared to Javik's dlc it clear they they are trying to make people charge extra for the content. He even has an impact to the plot.

1. Wardens Keep is not story? Javik is not "heavily involved" with the story. He ass some background and lore to the setting just like the keep. ME3 and the story plays exactly the same with out him.

2. So now a companion doesn't matter? Sebastion is as important to the broken story of DA as Javik is for ME3. In other words it doesn't change at all.

3. No its not clear. Its a collectors edition so it will have extras of some kind. That's what collectors editions are. They always come with some extra tidbits to entice people to pay extra for it.

If Javik has a impact on the plot then so does Shale, Zaede, Kasumi, and Sebastion.

Il Divo wrote...


I'm not sure why this is an argument against Javik. Ideally, your dlc should be motivating players to say "I have to have that".

 

I am continually dumbfounded by this assertion a business should not be a business. That they should create something people don't want. Doubly so with Leviathan because I believe that should of been included with the game. Has far more relevance to the story then Javik.

Modifié par addiction21, 23 décembre 2013 - 10:34 .

[Il Divo]

addiction21 wrote...

I am continually dumbfounded by this assertion a business should not be a business. That they should create something people don't want. Doubly so with Leviathan because I believe that should of been included with the game. Has far more relevance to the story then Javik.

While I agree that Leviathan has more story relevancy, as you say, a business is a business. If a company is worried about the ethics of releasing plot relevant content, then instead of releasing Leviathan for free, more likely it wouldn't have been made at all.

In the end, I find content like Leviathan a bit more interesting than I find content like Omega or Overlord, so even if I find it to be plot relevant, the alternative is more likely that Bioware will simply go back to releasing filler content. Just my two cents.  

[Maverick827]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Because in the case of Jahvik, 90% of the character was fully active with one line of code change? And that companions' interactions with him were fully on disc, suggesting the majority of scenes he was in were finished before the game went Gold?

You can say that's good, bad or indifferent, but it is evidence that does lead to that conclusion pretty easily. 

That's evidence that 90% (a fake number, to be sure) of Javik's content was on disc, but not evidence that it was main-game content that was cut to nickel-and-dime players.  The two are not one in the same.

[Sanunes]

Maverick827 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Because in the case of Jahvik, 90% of the character was fully active with one line of code change? And that companions' interactions with him were fully on disc, suggesting the majority of scenes he was in were finished before the game went Gold?

You can say that's good, bad or indifferent, but it is evidence that does lead to that conclusion pretty easily. 

That's evidence that 90% (a fake number, to be sure) of Javik's content was on disc, but not evidence that it was main-game content that was cut to nickel-and-dime players.  The two are not one in the same.

Here is a quote from when the game was released

Michael Gamble wrote...

Hi,

There has a been a lot of discussion this weekend about our DLC, and i just wanted to say a few things...

From Ashes is a 600 MB+ download with all new content, including the mission on Eden Prime, new dialogue options and conversations with Javik, new cinematics, the Prothean weapon, and new appearances for all squad members. All of the above content was completed while the main game was in certification and are not available on the disc.

As stated previously, in order to seamlessly integrate Javik into the core campaign, certain framework elements and character models needed to be put on disc. We did something similar with Zaeed and Kasumi in Mass Effect 2. 

The content that was on the disk just proves that they had an idea Javik would be part of the game, but his being cut could simply be they had to cut some content to get the game out to the player and just decided to finish work on Javik during the certification process time.

Source

[Fast Jimmy]

Maverick827 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Because in the case of Jahvik, 90% of the character was fully active with one line of code change? And that companions' interactions with him were fully on disc, suggesting the majority of scenes he was in were finished before the game went Gold?

You can say that's good, bad or indifferent, but it is evidence that does lead to that conclusion pretty easily. 

That's evidence that 90% (a fake number, to be sure) of Javik's content was on disc, but not evidence that it was main-game content that was cut to nickel-and-dime players.  The two are not one in the same.

I haven't sat down and done the math, but every single one of his party banter comments, comments on events/locations, all of his combat animations, powers/leveling system, combat dialogue (barks, as they are sometimes called) and his dialouge outside of his recruitment mission is on the disc. 

Basically, you download the Eden Prime mission and unlock the character. "90%" is a hard thing to calculate (is a combat animation worth 5%? 10%), but the character himself was on the disc, by and large. You just wouldn't have the mission to GET him unless you paid extra (or, as an earlier video demonstrated, you have the PC version and make one value change in a hex editor). 

And I never said he was cut to nickel-and-dime players. But he WAS cut, despite having a very large portion of his content completed at Gold and included on the disc. To say otherwise is misleading at best, lying at worse.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 23 décembre 2013 - 11:12 .

[addiction21]

Il Divo wrote...


While I agree that Leviathan has more story relevancy, as you say, a business is a business. If a company is worried about the ethics of releasing plot relevant content, then instead of releasing Leviathan for free, more likely it wouldn't have been made at all.

In the end, I find content like Leviathan a bit more interesting than I find content like Omega or Overlord, so even if I find it to be plot relevant, the alternative is more likely that Bioware will simply go back to releasing filler content. Just my two cents.  

And I agree. Even my feelings about Leviathan I didn't buy it. Hell my collectors edition of ME3 is still wrapped sitting on a shelf because I was lucky enough to play thru the roomates Xbox version a few times.

[leaguer of one]

addiction21 wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

1. The dao was dd edition was different because it did not hold story or character that were heavly involded with the story.
2.DA2 signature edition was just a pre order bonus... A limited one. There is no extra cost with getting it.

3. Javik was still place in the collector editon after it was annouced. That still makes it an issue. With what you get with the colletor edition compeared to Javik's dlc it clear they they are trying to make people charge extra for the content. He even has an impact to the plot.

1. Wardens Keep is not story? Javik is not "heavily involved" with the story. He ass some background and lore to the setting just like the keep. ME3 and the story plays exactly the same with out him.

2. So now a companion doesn't matter? Sebastion is as important to the broken story of DA as Javik is for ME3. In other words it doesn't change at all.

3. No its not clear. Its a collectors edition so it will have extras of some kind. That's what collectors editions are. They always come with some extra tidbits to entice people to pay extra for it.

If Javik has a impact on the plot then so does Shale, Zaede, Kasumi, and Sebastion.

Il Divo wrote...


I'm not sure why this is an argument against Javik. Ideally, your dlc should be motivating players to say "I have to have that".

 

I am continually dumbfounded by this assertion a business should not be a business. That they should create something people don't want. Doubly so with Leviathan because I believe that should of been included with the game. Has far more relevance to the story then Javik.

1. Not one that is relevent to the story. Added witht e Thesia mission he clearly is.
2.No way. What does Sebation reveal in his story. He is just some priness who does not know what to do. Javik insites on how the prothean sociaty is like,  how the help developed the current races, ever full explains how they cypher from ME1 works.
3.The info about what is going in the collectors edition was announce well inadvance. That clearly is not an excuse.

[addiction21]

Rubios wrote...


snip

That new picture reminds me more of recent kickstarters and how with every tier there will be a new wrtter adding something, another tier is a extra companion. then another writer, a new zone, a new writer, a new character.

[addiction21]

leaguer of one wrote...

1. Not one that is relevent to the story. Added witht e Thesia mission he clearly is.
2.No way. What does Sebation reveal in his story. He is just some priness who does not know what to do. Javik insites on how the prothean sociaty is like,  how the help developed the current races, ever full explains how they cypher from ME1 works.
3.The info about what is going in the collectors edition was announce well inadvance. That clearly is not an excuse.

1. No its not because the story doesn't change. Nothing changes. All you get is a new insight from the companions perspective like every other companion.

2. None of that is relevant to ME3s story or plot. Just adds backstory to the setting. Some lore expositions again ME3 plays exactly the same with or with out him just like every other extra companion.

3. Dear god they knew and told people what would be in the collectors edition so they could make a informed decision? Those devils!

[BouncyFrag]

Rubios wrote...

BouncyFrag wrote...

renjility wrote...

ThisOnesUsername wrote...

All you idiots wanting Day One DLC are making my head hurt.

This.


I don't doubt DA:I will have it, though. And it will probably only be free for those who preorder the collector edition, like with ME3. Milking, milking, milking. They should only start to consider D1DLC when there's not a single bug in the main game, as far as I'm concerned.

This pic sums up what new game releases are starting to feel like and is applicable to ME3 and DA2.

That picture is outdated, da next gen is here!

nicely done even if its a bit depressing, but true

[leaguer of one]

addiction21 wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

1. Not one that is relevent to the story. Added witht e Thesia mission he clearly is.
2.No way. What does Sebation reveal in his story. He is just some priness who does not know what to do. Javik insites on how the prothean sociaty is like,  how the help developed the current races, ever full explains how they cypher from ME1 works.
3.The info about what is going in the collectors edition was announce well inadvance. That clearly is not an excuse.

1. No its not because the story doesn't change. Nothing changes. All you get is a new insight from the companions perspective like every other companion.

2. None of that is relevant to ME3s story or plot. Just adds backstory to the setting. Some lore expositions again ME3 plays exactly the same with or with out him just like every other extra companion.

3. Dear god they knew and told people what would be in the collectors edition so they could make a informed decision? Those devils!

1. So everything on Thessia says the same... No way is there a big reveal on how the Asari were modified by the prothean is not added to the story with the dlc...
2.Yes it does. It a strong and new weighter perspective that effect what the player will choose.

3.Right, so some how making people pay extra for a character with that strong of presence and has a big reveal in a curucal part of the game is a good thing?

[addiction21]

leaguer of one wrote...

1. So everything on Thessia says the same... No way is there a big reveal on how the Asari were modified by the prothean is not added to the story with the dlc...
2.Yes it does. It a strong and new weighter perspective that effect what the player will choose.

3.Right, so some how making people pay extra for a character with that strong of presence and has a big reveal in a curucal part of the game is a good thing?

1. I didn't say it stays the same. It adds nothing to the story or plot of the game. It adds some lore. No different then if you bring Liara along to Thessia she is shocked to discover there is a beacon there.  It doesn't drastically change anything.

2. see 1.

3. See 1

What I am getting from you is that DLC should be entirely irrelevant to the game and universe like Darkspawn Chronicles. That if its a companion it should be like Kasumi or Zeade who have a mission maybe a toss away like somewhere in the game and stand there spouting one liners when you try to talk to them.

Modifié par addiction21, 23 décembre 2013 - 11:44 .

[BouncyFrag]

leaguer of one wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

1. Not one that is relevent to the story. Added witht e Thesia mission he clearly is.
2.No way. What does Sebation reveal in his story. He is just some priness who does not know what to do. Javik insites on how the prothean sociaty is like,  how the help developed the current races, ever full explains how they cypher from ME1 works.
3.The info about what is going in the collectors edition was announce well inadvance. That clearly is not an excuse.

1. No its not because the story doesn't change. Nothing changes. All you get is a new insight from the companions perspective like every other companion.

2. None of that is relevant to ME3s story or plot. Just adds backstory to the setting. Some lore expositions again ME3 plays exactly the same with or with out him just like every other extra companion.

3. Dear god they knew and told people what would be in the collectors edition so they could make a informed decision? Those devils!

1. So everything on Thessia says the same... No way is there a big reveal on how the Asari were modified by the prothean is not added to the story with the dlc...
2.Yes it does. It a strong and new weighter perspective that effect what the player will choose.

3.Right, so some how making people pay extra for a character with that strong of presence and has a big reveal in a curucal part of the game is a good thing?

Taking Javik to Thessia made a big impact to me. Locking him behind a paywall was lame. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

D1DLC is on their own budget. The inclusion or omission of it would not change the core game at all. So what is the problem?

[Il Divo]

BouncyFrag wrote...

Taking Javik to Thessia made a big impact to me. Locking him behind a paywall was lame. 

Making a big impact on you personally and being plot critical are two completely different things. Javik should enhance your experience.

The key question is: did he provide any narrative exposition without which ME3's plot is unable to stand on its own?

I've done only two play throughs of ME3, the first being without Javik. There was no point where I found myself saying "the things happening on screen make no sense to me".

Modifié par Il Divo, 23 décembre 2013 - 11:52 .

[LinksOcarina]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Because in the case of Jahvik, 90% of the character was fully active with one line of code change? And that companions' interactions with him were fully on disc, suggesting the majority of scenes he was in were finished before the game went Gold?

You can say that's good, bad or indifferent, but it is evidence that does lead to that conclusion pretty easily. 

That's evidence that 90% (a fake number, to be sure) of Javik's content was on disc, but not evidence that it was main-game content that was cut to nickel-and-dime players.  The two are not one in the same.

I haven't sat down and done the math, but every single one of his party banter comments, comments on events/locations, all of his combat animations, powers/leveling system, combat dialogue (barks, as they are sometimes called) and his dialouge outside of his recruitment mission is on the disc. 

Basically, you download the Eden Prime mission and unlock the character. "90%" is a hard thing to calculate (is a combat animation worth 5%? 10%), but the character himself was on the disc, by and large. You just wouldn't have the mission to GET him unless you paid extra (or, as an earlier video demonstrated, you have the PC version and make one value change in a hex editor). 

And I never said he was cut to nickel-and-dime players. But he WAS cut, despite having a very large portion of his content completed at Gold and included on the disc. To say otherwise is misleading at best, lying at worse.

One thing to note that people keep forgetting, it is easier to put sound and animation content on-disc, so that it smoothly transitions when the key is unlocked via a DLC. I talked to a few programmers about this, apparently its done to try to prevent glitches and to make sure the DLC works once its downloaded. So there is a reason why it's on the disk.

The accusations regarding purposely cut content of course can't be proven, and as I said earlier in this thread, the way DLC works now a days is designed to be pre-planned or previously cut content to begin with.

Or to put it simply, without those two models of how  DLC is designed, characters like Shale and Javik wouldn't exist.