207 réponses à ce sujet

[lokiarchetype]

Isn't it more offensive to portray every character as having a fluid sexuality than it is to give you the option of romancing whoever you want?



SuZe shouldn't be romanceable at all. She has way too many issues to have any kind of meaningful relationship and just using her for an intimate encounter is taking advantage of her mental state.



I'm surprised people had the reaction "She's hot" and not "I want to buy her a shirt and a therapist"

[ODST 3]

The Angry One wrote...

Naltair wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Way to miss the point. When there are that many romances by a company that used to try and cater above the mainstream, something is up.

They cater to providing the story, and as I said you don;t have to do the same things all the time. I don;t know there is no real middle ground with you but I don;t think that every video game is a vehicle for social reformation.  Sometimes I just want to fly my ship, blast some jerks, and save the universe.

What social reformation? Thinking that ME2 has to send a message is part of the problem.
Why can't homosexuality just be there? Don't make a big deal about it, it's just there. It worked in Dragon Age.

Unlike Dragon Age, this story takes place in the "real world" so they would have to create some sort of "real world" reaction to same-gender romances from the other NPCs like there was in ME1 if you got with Liara. NOt saying they shouldn't include it, but attacking Bioware for doing business is kind of silly. Then again, you are "The Angry One"

Modifié par ODST 3, 21 janvier 2010 - 05:28 .

[finc.loki]

jlb524 wrote...

finc.loki wrote...

Doesn't matter if it is 3010, Homosexuality will never be "normal".

It can be accepted and have full equal rights but it will never be the "norm", that would either mean a dying human race or test tube babies galore.

Someone needs a reality check, I know it is hip with all things gay right now, but no matter how much you cry, it is not normal.

The definition of what a society considers 'normal' changes with time.  How do you know homosexuality and bisexuality along with heterosexuality won't be considered normal someday?

It's not an either or.  It's not like if homosexuality were deemed 'normal', all of a sudden heterosexuality would have to be deemed 'abnormal' and people discouraged from engaging in it.     That's bollocks!!

I don't see why any form of human sexuality that takes place between consenting adults and doesn't harm anyone cannot be considered 'normal'.

When I say this I don't mean "freaks, bla bla BS", I just mean it isn't the norm.
It would be normal if that is how nature intended the human race would procreate, we know that is not possible .

It can be considered normal since it DOES exist in nature, people are born homosexual and BI everyday.
Yet it will never be the norm until it becomes the de facto standard and majority.
This will never happen, all of a sudden there won't be more gay people born over straight people.

So please understand I am not talking about some kind of "hey your weird and don't have value etc".

Take dwarfs as an example/analogy, they are just as human as everyone else but they are not the norm either. How many buildings, elevators, everything is made with them in mind unless specifically requested?
A contractor making buildings won't make as much money if he is specialized in making buildings for dwarfs only, than he would be making it for the "normal" sized people.

Hence it would be considered a "niche" market and not standard or norm..

Same thing with lets say porn, which makes most money, gay porn or straight porn.
I am not talking about people's value but trying to explain why not every game that has romance has homosexual one.
Bioware has been on the forefront regarding this and probably helped pave the way for more equality like that.
This time it was probably a time constraint why it wasn't in, since I can't see them being afraid all of a sudden when they already had it in 4 or so previous games.

I hope you understand my crude and feable attempt to clarify what I meant.

[Schneidend]

ODST 3 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

What social reformation? Thinking that ME2 has to send a message is part of the problem.
Why can't homosexuality just be there? Don't make a big deal about it, it's just there. It worked in Dragon Age.

Unlike Dragon Age, this story takes place in the "real world" so they would have to create some sort of "real world" reaction to same-gender romances from the other NPCs like there was in ME1 if you got with Liara. NOt saying they shouldn't include it, but attacking Bioware for doing business is kind of silly. Then again, you are "The Angry One"

Honestly, I have to agree with Angry One for once. Sometimes people are just gay, gay activities happen in the world, and reacting to it overmuch is like reacting to somebody eating a sandwich, unless you were utterly convinced they did not like sandwiches, I suppose.

Moreover, Dragon Age was very realistic in that you as the player were allowed to react. If Zevran hits on a male Grey Warden, you are given several response options, some of which are angry and offended, while others are completely baffled as though they had never even heard of such a thing. Being raised in the relatively conservative lands of Ferelden with the sheltered life of a young nobelman, my player-character chose those latter, not even grasping that it was possible for a man to be attracted to another man.

[Thomas_R_Roy]

To the original poster - The non-hetero relationships are not an afterthought. I don't want to talk about details really, because its a company issue and not something its my place to talk about. The lack of one in this game doesn't say anything about our willingness to do it. It has nothing to do with our moral stance on the issues, or our corporate bosses.



Look at Dragon Age and Dante's Inferno for that, and the success of "The Ballad of Gay Tony" - video games aren't afraid to touch gay issues.



Don't kick Subject Zero out. At least finish her story quest. She's a good character.

[ODST 3]

Schneidend wrote...

ODST 3 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

What social reformation? Thinking that ME2 has to send a message is part of the problem.
Why can't homosexuality just be there? Don't make a big deal about it, it's just there. It worked in Dragon Age.

Unlike Dragon Age, this story takes place in the "real world" so they would have to create some sort of "real world" reaction to same-gender romances from the other NPCs like there was in ME1 if you got with Liara. NOt saying they shouldn't include it, but attacking Bioware for doing business is kind of silly. Then again, you are "The Angry One"

Honestly, I have to agree with Angry One for once. Sometimes people are just gay, gay activities happen in the world, and reacting to it overmuch is like reacting to somebody eating a sandwich, unless you were utterly convinced they did not like sandwiches, I suppose.

Yeah, I agree that reacting to it as though it's something negative is wrong, but realistically, that's what you'd see from at least some creatures in the galaxy.

[Bootsykk]

Hell, Subject Zero just freaks people out. She's supposed to do that. As a very conflicting and deviating type of character, the idea is for you, as the player, to be unsure whether to love or hate her.

I'm personally dying to know the backstory instead of saying, "Well, from the 1-2 minutes of footage that I've seen of her, she is a **** and I hate her and everyone should hate her because she's ugly and bald ."

I mean... seriously. I don't think she's ever going to have the majority of people like her just because they'll never even bother to try and get to see who she is as a character.

[DaySeeker]

RPG's are games where one can create an alter ego that they view as the self they are, want to be, or could be, if one is gay they might like their alter ego to look the way they want them to, act the way they want them to and love the way they want them to, especially if romance is a part of the game. Otherwise the message sent out, whether intentional or not, is, at best, "You don't matter," and at worst, "Go and hide, you freak, and just try to pretend you're normal like us." I don't see people demanding that certain characters be created so that they may romance them, or demanding that listed characters lean a certain way, but to have there be a possibility somewhere in a game that has boasted six romance. To not be able to change a few lines to have two characters able to be romanced by either gender does not seem unreasonable.



And straight people and bi people, you don't know what it's like to be gay, to grow up gay. It's not a criticism or judgement, but you don't. Whatever metaphor or analogy you try will not equal the actual experience. As youths and even as adults gays are told overtly or subvertly that tehre is something wrong with them and that they are different. Guilt, shame, anger and blame are aimed at them early and frequently, so sometimes they are going to be angry, and sometimes they will be annoyed with you for telling them it's not a big deal, and it's just the same as smoking or dwarves or smoking dwarves, or being told not to get so upset about not being represented. Just please let them feel what they're feeling, and let them express what they're expressing. 10% is not a majority, but it is a large minority.