76 réponses à ce sujet

[Fredward]

You'd be a tal-vasoth saarebas if you were playing a Qunari mage. If you were playing any other mage you'd be a bas saarebas. Not that it really matters. But yeah tal-vasoth means you once followed the Qun but decided to leave, bas means someone who has never been part of the Qun.

[Phoenix_Fyre]

Huh

So how a QI got to be free is probably gonna be explained in the background choices? Wish we had playable origins over the ME style of background

[ElementalFury106]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

ElementalFury106 wrote...
Gonna make a Female Qunari Mage a double insult to the Qun; a female fighter and mage. Can't wait to see how other Qunari react to her.

That will be very fun indeed. 

I know this is irrelevant to this post, but I just spent the past hour reading about your homunculus/reaper comparison. brilliant, my good man. cheers!

[DarthSliver]

Well I have been strongly considering Female Qunari Mage. One, being Qunari race is already a negative due to events that happen in Kirkwall, I am sure word has spread of that since Mage VS Templars stuff thats going on and Two, you are a mage.

Even if you are not part of the Qun or never been or heard of it, you will be label as such an reap the negatives that the Qun- Qunari have set for the Qunari as a race. Hopefully that makes sense to you guys.

[ElementalFury106]

andy69156915 wrote...

ElementalFury106 wrote...

Phoenix_Fyre wrote...

Sooooo anyone gonna play a qunari... mage... just to mess with people?

I'm totally debating that making my QMI that because it's such a vastly different background option

So what does the name qunari imply?

Was everything about Sten wrong in Origins then?

Gonna make a Female Qunari Mage a double insult to the Qun; a female fighter and mage. Can't wait to see how other Qunari react to her.

Qunari means "those who follow the Qun."

What're you specifically talking about with Sten? Nothing was wrong with him.

I think I'll do the same. I know for a fact that I am picking a female Qunari, that part isn't even in question for me. But I am leaning towards being a mage for the same reason you are. And you're actually a triple insult, you're a female fighter and an unbound mage and a Tal-Vashoth.

Still, I'm not 100% dead set on being a mage yet. I want to see a lot of gameplay of all 3 classes before I commit to any class yet ahead of time. But mage is certainly in the lead so far.

Hm, now that I'm not sure of. To be considered Tal-Vashoth, one would've had to be once part of the Qun. It's possible there were those who were never introduced/exposed to the Qun. The Qunari Inquisitor (though if this is the case, the the name is a contradiction) could've been one of the few of this case.

Or, the Qunari Inquisitor is actually inadvertently part of Qun, there is just no name for him/her. Just as Sten and other Qunari are sent by the Arishok to foreigns nations/matters to observe and find answers for the Qun.

Who knows, there is endless speculation. We'll have our answers soon!

Modifié par ElementalFury106, 22 décembre 2013 - 07:52 .

[andy6915]

Maybe you'll have the chance to convert to the Qun or continue to be a Vashoth (if you chose the Qunari race for your character). Of course, if you convert as a mage/Saarebas then I have to question why they don't then cut your tongue out and sew your mouth shut and lock you in a pen like they're supposed to do with mages... Or maybe they do and you get a non-standard gameover and the load screen pretty much telling you "idiot, what did you think was going to happen?" in the text.

[ElementalFury106]

andy69156915 wrote...

Maybe you'll have the chance to convert to the Qun or continue to be a Vashoth (if you chose the Qunari race for your character). Of course, if you convert as a mage/Saarebas then I have to question why they don't then cut your tongue out and sew your mouth shut and lock you in a pen like they're supposed to do with mages... Or maybe they do and you get a non-standard gameover and the load screen pretty much telling you "idiot, what did you think was going to happen?" in the text.

It'll probably be one of those plot holes that's never really answered and practically ignored. Such as why wasn't a mage Hawke locked in the gallows when the whole city found out he was an Apostate.

[Nightdragon8]

outlaworacle wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Let's NOT add "kossith" into this discussion. The series' writers, the World of Thedas, and the DAWiki all confirm that "kossith" is not a term used to describe the Qunari race. It is an outdated word used only by some scholars and historians for the race that predated the Qunari a long time ago.

Just like the Anglo-Saxons predated the English.

Gotta call 'em something. They're a distinct species.

exactly, dont just say, "dont call them that" and not give us something we can call them. fine lets rename them to bullheads until we are given a proper name. Or Ogre-kin. or shinnybodypeople.

Qunari are not a "race" its a goverment/religion, Kossith by your own admission IS a RACE. So using that term is correct. And because we are trying to split hairs here.

The bad part is that if we aren't sposed to use that term, then the Devs have done the fans a very serious diservice on the forums to try to correct us.

Because if we are getting a "Qunari" Inquisitor then we can get an elf human drawf or the "shinnbodypeople" because it has been stated IN GAME that "Qunari" are those who follow the Qun. Not the race of "Shinnybodypeople"

So I really think the Devs and writers need to get together get the story stright and tell us out of game onthe forums and in DA wiki's what is what. Cause at this people everyone is confused.

Now if this is what the devs want to confuse us so we can't talk about things then fine.  Then we as FANS need to get together and come up with our OWN defenition of things.

[andy6915]

ElementalFury106 wrote...

It'll probably be one of those plot holes that's never really answered and practically ignored. Such as why wasn't a mage Hawke locked in the gallows when the whole city found out he was an Apostate.

That's not a plot hole. Hawke just saved the city, but more importantly just saved the pathetic ass of every single rich and powerful noble in the city. To arrest Hawke after something like that would be political suicide for Meredith and the Templars, and they knew it. Like everyone in the game kept saying, get rich and powerful and influential enough and the Templars won't be able to touch you. Now if Hawke had been found out before that point... Then yeah, gameover.

[andy6915]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

exactly, dont just say, "dont call them that" and not give us something we can call them. fine lets rename them to bullheads until we are given a proper name. Or Ogre-kin. or shinnybodypeople.

As I said in another thread:

Qunari/Kossith/horny people/giants/oxman/whatever the hell you call them

So we have to call their race something, we need a way of distinguishing Qunari race from Qunari religion. Qunari could be describing an elf for all we know (Tallis), so we need a way of referring to Qunari as a race. Screw it, I'm calling them horny people from now on. If the "never say Kossith" people want me using a different term, then I'm using the most childish one to spite them.

Modifié par andy69156915, 22 décembre 2013 - 08:31 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

ElementalFury106 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

ElementalFury106 wrote...
Gonna make a Female Qunari Mage a double insult to the Qun; a female fighter and mage. Can't wait to see how other Qunari react to her.

That will be very fun indeed. 

I know this is irrelevant to this post, but I just spent the past hour reading about your homunculus/reaper comparison. brilliant, my good man. cheers!

Thank you very much. After all the work that went into it, I always appreciate feedbck. 
I just wish the pictures still worked. I posted a pictureless version so it would be easier to read.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 22 décembre 2013 - 10:15 .

[Jonathan Seagull]

@Nightdragon - ^That wiki is an excellent source. To mention some key points from that and from dev discussion:

The devs actually have addressed this multiple times. Their story has been straight for quite some time. It is fine if you choose to refer to them as kossith (or whatever other term) in conversation, so long as you 1) don't try to make anyone else refer to them as such; and 2) don't expect to see it reflected in-game or by the devs as a more "correct" term.

Followers of the Qun are known as Qunari. Members of the "grey giant" race are known as Qunari. This is how everyone in Thedas refers to them. If the overlap is confusing, there are phrases like "elven Qunari" to clarify (or viddathari, which is the name for all converts of other races).

To be honest, the vast majority of the time I think that it's relatively easy to understand what people are talking about based on the context of the conversation. In fact, just as an observation, it's pretty much only conversations like this one where I see people treating it as though it's an issue. I very rarely see people confused by the term in the course of regular discussion.

[andy6915]

Jonathan Seagull wrote...

@Nightdragon - ^That wiki is an excellent source. To mention some key points from that and from dev discussion:

The devs actually have addressed this multiple times. Their story has been straight for quite some time. It is fine if you choose to refer to them as kossith (or whatever other term) in conversation, so long as you 1) don't try to make anyone else refer to them as such; and 2) don't expect to see it reflected in-game or by the devs as a more "correct" term.

Followers of the Qun are known as Qunari. Members of the "grey giant" race are known as Qunari. This is how everyone in Thedas refers to them. If the overlap is confusing, there are phrases like "elven Qunari" to clarify (or viddathari, which is the name for all converts of other races).

To be honest, the vast majority of the time I think that it's relatively easy to understand what people are talking about based on the context of the conversation. In fact, just as an observation, it's pretty much only conversations like this one where I see people treating it as though it's an issue. I very rarely see people confused by the term in the course of regular discussion.

No, we should call them Kossith. Not because it's canon or lore-based but simply because we need a word to refer to the race of giant horned people because Qunari is not merely a race name. Again, we've already met an elven Qunari. Without knowing who she is already, anyone hearing she's a Qunari will picture a tall horned woman and not a petite elf. That kind of confusion is nothing but a headache. So if not Kossith then we need to, as a fanbase or forum, decide on a universal word that we all understand as "the big horned people's species". Kossith is as good as any word and at least is already established, so why not use it? I don't care if it's uncanon or the devs don't like it, we need a way to separate Qunari the species to Qunari the religion.

So tell me. if not Kossith, then what word should we use? And don't say Qunari, that refers to a religion. Oxmen? Refers only to men so I don't really like that term. Giants? Well it sounds cool at least, but they aren't really big enough to be "giant". Horny people? Childish. Grey-skin? Decent, but seems too plain.

Modifié par andy69156915, 22 décembre 2013 - 11:38 .

[The Elder King]

Double post

Modifié par hhh89, 22 décembre 2013 - 11:45 .

[The Elder King]

You can call them whatever you want, but the 'Qunari' term refers to both the race and the religion. So if someone calls a member or the race 'qunari' he's not wrong. The term is correct, since Gaider said so.
Again, you can call them whatever you want, the devs don't care. But stop saying that we should call them Kossith or in another term, but not qunari, because you're wrong.
About the Inqusitor, while the devs stated we'll play as a Tal-Vashoth, I'm not sure. A Tal-Vashoth is a qunari/kossith/whatever that left that Qun and fights it. A Vashoth is left the Qun but doesn't fight it. It seems to me that we'll like be the latter and not the former.

Modifié par hhh89, 22 décembre 2013 - 11:46 .

[andy6915]

hhh89 wrote...


You can call them whatever you want, but the 'Qunari' term refers to both the race and the religion. So if someone calls a member or the race 'qunari' he's not wrong. The term is correct, since Gaider said so.
Again, you can call them whatever you want, the devs don't care. But stop saying that we should call them Kossith or in another term, but not qunari, because you're wrong.
About the Inqusitor, while the devs stated we'll play as a Tal-Vashoth, I'm not sure. A Tal-Vashoth is a qunari/kossith/whatever that left that Qun and fights it. A Vashoth is left the Qun but doesn't fight it. It seems to me that we'll like be the latter and not the former.

Then keep needlessly confusing the fanbase. Because as you know fan nicknames to refer to something like, oh I don't know, calling an unnamed Prothean "Prothy" so that we're all on the same page as to what we're referring to, is obviously not meant to be done. Should we start calling all Arabs "Muslims" now because most happen to be Muslim? I mean if we're going to refer to races by their most common religion, then where should we stop? Should we start calling humans in DAO "Andrastians" as their race name? What if it's an elven chantry believer? Andrastian too? "So an Andrastian went to the market yesterday"... Am I referring to an Elf or a human or even a dwarf if that Orzammar Chantry worked out? You don't know? Well that's the bloody point! Here's another, "a Qunari went to the market yesterday"... Horned one, right? Wrong, it was a dwarven convert. Now you feel stupid for guessing wrong. Maybe this would be easier if we had a way of telling what the hell we're talking about? Just an idea.

You don't want to come up with a name for their race? Then you're just complicating things and making things harder to discuss because we all have to specify exactly which Qunari race we're referring to. Apparently some people just like things remaining frustrating.

Modifié par andy69156915, 22 décembre 2013 - 12:27 .

[Thomas Andresen]

Now if this is what the devs want to confuse us so we can't talk about things then fine. Then we as FANS need to get together and come up with our OWN defenition of things.

That's perfectly fine, if you feel an absolute need to do so, but don't expect the entire rest of the fan-base to share your sentiment, never mind adhering to whatever term you want to be using.

I will be using the terminology that is used within the game.

A quote from Sten comes to mind.

People are not simple. They cannot be summarized for easy reference in the manner of: 'The elves are a lithe, pointy eared people who excel at poverty.'

The Inquisitor will not be a follower of the Qun, that much is certain. Whether they'll start out as a Tal-Vashoth rebel or just a mercenary remains the question.

[andy6915]

People are not simple. They cannot be summarized for easy reference in the manner of: 'The elves are a lithe, pointy eared people who excel at poverty.'

So we can't summarize with a race name? Okay, let's make it even more confusing then I thought possible! From now on let's never ever refer to races on this board because "people are not simple and cannot be summarized for easy referance". Brilliant, that is just genius. Oh man, choosing which race at the beginning of Inquition will be difficult now that I'll have to click the race to see which it is because all races all just called "people" now. But I guess this is how it has to be, otherwise we're just trying to simplify people and that isn't right:crying:.

[DRTJR]

ElementalFury106 wrote...

Phoenix_Fyre wrote...

Ah, and the Qun is the lifestyle of the Qunari, which anyone can be, based on DA2 right?

An elf, a human, a dwarf, that adhere to the Qun lifestyle are called qunari? I mean, that's what I'm getting from the wiki anyways


So a mage qunari is technically a tal-vashoth, saarebas?

No one is ever called Qunari, unless they are describing their race to one who is uninformed. Everyone who follows the Qun has a name, a name that represents their role in the Qun. For example, the elves and the viscount's son who joined the Qun in Dragon Age 2 were called "Viddithari", meaning outsider who converted to the Qun.

A mage is ONLY tal-vashoth if they personally decided to leave the Qun. Saarebas is the general qunari word for "mage" or "danger."

Saarebas literally means Dangerous Thing, while every non Qunari is a Bas, a thing

[andy6915]

DRTJR wrote...

Saarebas literally means Dangerous Thing, while every non Qunari is a Bas, a thing

So that would mean "danger" is translated to "saare" in the Qunari language. Interesting.

[The Elder King]

@andy69156915: if you want to make a crusade to from a definition for the race, go ahead. I don't care how they should be called, so if you manage to convince everyone on a term that isn't 'qunari', I'll be fine. Until then, since the term 'kossith' is still inaccurate to define the race (since it indicates ten former society of the race), I'll use whatever term I see fit, since it's not wrong to call the qunari.

[andy6915]

hhh89 wrote...

@andy69156915: if you want to make a crusade to from a definition for the race, go ahead. I don't care how they should be called, so if you manage to convince everyone on a term that isn't 'qunari', I'll be fine. Until then, since the term 'kossith' is still inaccurate to define the race (since it indicates ten former society of the race), I'll use whatever term I see fit, since it's not wrong to call the qunari.

So if everyone called Javik something different than everyone else and no one agreed on the nickname, that would have been fine for discussion before his name was revealed? I don't think so. No one would no who other people were referring to, it would have been a mess to discuss... Exactly like Qunari already are because people like you keep wanting to use their relgion as their race name. And mark my words when I say it's only going to get more complicated in DAI, because I fully expect to be running into even more Qunari than in DA2 and a good number of them will likely be  "non-Qunari Qunari" (to use your mindset and demonstrate how stupid and convuluted not using a nickname is going to be for other race Qunari in DAI). You want to call them the overtly long non-Qunari Qunari description for converts? Because that is where your logic is leading us. Or should we come up with a nickname for Qunari who are non-Qunari Qunari in that they aren't racially Qunari but are religious Qunari (purposely being redundant to continue demonstrating how dumb this is)? Just because Bioware is being dumb and not telling us a race name just to make things complicated doesn't mean we should play ball and go along with it. Unless Bioware themselves gives us a race name in DAI, the level of redundancy and confusion in my post here will be just a small fraction of how annoying this is going to get if we don't start using a nickname.

Modifié par andy69156915, 22 décembre 2013 - 01:20 .

[t0mm06]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

exactly, dont just say, "dont call them that" and not give us something we can call them. fine lets rename them to bullheads until we are given a proper name. Or Ogre-kin. or shinnybodypeople.

Qunari are not a "race" its a goverment/religion, Kossith by your own admission IS a RACE. So using that term is correct. And because we are trying to split hairs here.

The bad part is that if we aren't sposed to use that term, then the Devs have done the fans a very serious diservice on the forums to try to correct us.

Because if we are getting a "Qunari" Inquisitor then we can get an elf human drawf or the "shinnbodypeople" because it has been stated IN GAME that "Qunari" are those who follow the Qun. Not the race of "Shinnybodypeople"

So I really think the Devs and writers need to get together get the story stright and tell us out of game onthe forums and in DA wiki's what is what. Cause at this people everyone is confused.

Now if this is what the devs want to confuse us so we can't talk about things then fine.  Then we as FANS need to get together and come up with our OWN defenition of things.

I dont think its half as confusing as you make it out to be. Gaider has already said that Qunari is both the religion name and the name of the race. (almost like how you can not be Jewish but still be considetred Jewish for having a jewish heritage) 
I mean if you use a bit of common sense and actually look at How the term is being used its pretty easy to see which one people are talking about.

E.g 'I'm going to play a Qunari mage and hes going to have massive horns and be really badass and sarcastic' ... clearly they mean the race Qunari

'Im going to play a qunari and he is going to be stricker then Sten and become Arishock, and I will SHOW AL THE BAAs the true way!' <- clearly means the religion

Also the whole 'if i say Qunari i could mean an elf' argument.... well yes technically but anyone who wants to make that distinction, and really want people to know its an elf would probably say an Qunari Elf, or maybe even a QunElf.

[andy6915]

t0mm06 wrote...

Also the whole 'if i say Qunari i could mean an elf' argument.... well yes technically but anyone who wants to make that distinction, and really want people to know its an elf would probably say an Qunari Elf, or maybe even a QunElf.

There is a slight chance that Bioware will let you convert to the Qun in your dealing with them, which means it is quite possible your non-Qunari will become a non-Qunari Qunari. So you have an elf who converts to the Qun in your playthrough, what will you call your character now? Elf-Qunari as you said? Just "elf" still even though they are now Qunari? And what if you're referring to a group on non-Qunari Qunari, what will be call them? What I've been redundantly calling them? Even if QunElf works, it still in no way lets you talk about a group of non-Qunari Qunari in a way that isn't frustrating to type and read. Now if we started calling them a nickname, then every single problem with wording and discussion disappears instantly.

As I have said before, you don't like Kossith... Fine. But we as a fanbase need to come up with a similar word, or we're just going to be spinning our wheels in thick mud and not going anywhere. Or if not that, we need a catch all term for all non-Qunari Qunari so we can refer to that group as a whole like the opposite of nicknaming the Qunari race. If you want to go down that route, I suggest Viddathari. It's a word that actually means a non-Qunari race that has recently converted but isn't educated into being a true Qunari yet, so it's technically incorrect just as Kossith is... But it works. If I say "a Viddathari went to the market", everyone knows I am not talking about a racial Qunari and no confusion follows.

So call Qunari the race Kossith or some other word, or call non-Qunari Qunari something like Viddathari. One way or another, we need to be able to separate the race from the religion.

Modifié par andy69156915, 22 décembre 2013 - 01:35 .