247 réponses à ce sujet

[Zerker]

How is it going gentlemen?

Before I start, I'm just going to link a youtube video from Mr.Btongue touching the subject of realism in Witcher and Dragon Age series:



"-Events of the second game kicked of a political and religious turmoil.
Aha!
-The worlds instutions are weakened and confusued without direction.
Aha!
-AND THEN A HOLE OPENS IN THE SKY AND DEMONS START POURING OUT!
Uh..huh."

This was a spot-on observation that I wanted to discuss for some time now, since the plot of the third game was kind of revealed.

What we have here is Thedas, an allegory of medieval europe that does its job so well it has become one of the very few "fresh" fantasy settings of this decade, as anyone who is into literature can rightfully point out. However, after an "epic" monomyth that worked as a proper introduction, the series is a little lost between literal genres, and its effort to find its character has become tiring for the audience.

What I want to point out is simply this, the whole setting of Thedas is incredibly suitable for magic realism, and I believe that was what the writers intended to do with the second game, a mature and realistic story experience well-fit for Dragon Age.

The failure of DA II was never the scale of the story, or simplicity of it, that was very well done. Incredibly ridiculous dialogue, lack of proper decision-making, weak combat and bla bla, those elements were the downfall of that experience; yet I believe the team might have decided to turn back to the "heroic" origins formula because of the misperception that the tone and the character of the DA II's story were among the failures as well. They were most certainly not.

I would like to see a DA II type of Dragon Age story(with a more mature and enhanced realistic tone) in the future, as I think that's what makes this setting worth the time, of course with a lot better gameplay, dialogue and decisions that actually shape the storyline. Even if it's a lost cause for the Inquisition, though it's still fairly early to tell.

Modifié par Maddok900, 22 décembre 2013 - 06:49 .

[HiroVoid]

The devs have already stated that DA:I was always the story that DA:II was meant to lead into. DAII also solved the problem of having mages around without having to make an excuse as to why they're not in a circle. DAII already had problems with Hawke hiding while flying off magic spells everywhere.

[Augustei]

No surer way to attract David to a thread than to put Heroism in the bloody title lol

Anyway I really like highly political plots in games so any concentration to that is a big bonus in my books. What I don't like is any elements that detract from that focus such as you've stated. I don't mind the cliche save the world thing as long as we can get highly involved in the events of Thedas outside of this conflict.

But yes a focus on a more realistic adversary would make the quality of the game much more awesome imo. Initially I had hoped the sequel to Dragon Age would be my warden (now Prince-Consort =P) dealing with another potential Orlesian invasion as they try to take advantage of the weakened Ferelden. Something akin to The Witcher 2 and Nilfgaard vs the Northern Kingdoms.. Where it starts of with Orlais ensuring Ferelden is at its absolute weakest taking various steps and then invading again.
Or heck even another Qunari invasion would have been awesome

[LinksOcarina]

One of the reason's I enjoyed Dragon Age II was due to the political ramifications that kept boiling over in Kirkwall. Right now I am a bit skeptical about the results of it being too close to the fantastical realm.

That said, considering what we know of Inquisition, I think the idea of flirting for alliances as the grand inquisitor does reinforce the need for those political leanings we had in Dragon Age I, and to extant Origins.

Consider me cautiously optimistic, I think the video is over-emphaisizing a tonal shift that can't be proven yet, not to mention is in line with the fantastical ideas found in Origins with the blight.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

I must have played a different DAII.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Why do I feel this is a thread designed to lure David here...

Anyway, I like stories that rely less on old tropes of black and white morality and have people with varying perspectives and issues. I like having no sure-fire way to solve problems. I like intrigue, turmoil, and ambiguity.

As for heroism and realism, I'll just say what an old mentor of mine once said.

Let the idiot be the hero. Let him suffer and get hit and maimed and killed. I'll be the guy who prefers going home at the end of the day with my five medals; One head, two arms, and two legs.

[Wulfram]

If you've got an undefined player character, then it's hard to really bring the PC into the story without the big epic world threatening threat. There's a big risk that the PC just won't care all that much about what's going on.

Maybe Bioware should start defining the character more, so that they can give the PC a personal motivation and avoid the catch all Save-the-World type stuff. But I don't really think they could do that, and allow people to choose from a bunch of backgrounds like in Origins and Inquisition.

Modifié par Wulfram, 22 décembre 2013 - 07:24 .

[NUM13ER]

LinksOcarina wrote...
 I think the video is over-emphaisizing a tonal shift that can't be proven yet, not to mention is in line with the fantastical ideas found in Origins with the blight.

This. There's nothing I've heard so far regarding Inquisition's story and setting that makes me feel it's no longer in the same universe. In fact the fade's influence on the real world has been displayed many times and the veil being torn due to conflict weaking the barrier is also firmly established.

Someone actively tearing the veil during conflict isn't that far fetched, though the scale of the breach shows it's someone or something very powerful indeed.

[Zerker]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Why do I feel this is a thread designed to lure David here...

Don't worry about that, I haven't the simplest clue about what gives Mr.Gaider a writer boner.

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
As for heroism and realism, I'll just say what an old mentor of mine once said.

Let the idiot be the hero. Let him suffer and get hit and maimed and killed. I'll be the guy who prefers going home at the end of the day with my five medals; One head, two arms, and two legs.

That is the level of intelligence I would like to see in fantasy genre more often. A personal adventure, personal goals, and a chance to build up a character that lets you define his/her view upon stuff much larger than himself.

Modifié par Maddok900, 22 décembre 2013 - 08:41 .

[slimgrin]

In the Witcher, magic and fantasy are background elements to the political intrigue and plot development. In DA, I'd say the reverse is true, and I'd be prepared to rescue the universe one more time.

[Veruin]

Maddok900 wrote...
Don't worry about that, I haven't the simplest clue about what gives Mr.Gaider a writer boner.

Either you're trolling or you don't know who David is.

[Zerker]

Veruin wrote...
Either you're trolling or you don't know who David is.

I'm not trolling and I know who David Gaider is by name, haven't read his posts often.

[MDCT506]

XxDeonxX wrote...

*snip*

Anyway I really like highly political plots in games so any concentration to that is a big bonus in my books. What I don't like is any elements that detract from that focus such as you've stated. I don't mind the cliche save the world thing as long as we can get highly involved in the events of Thedas outside of this conflict.

*snip*

I agree with this sentiment.  I'd expand on that by saying that I think "Saving the World" feels a whole lot better the more connected to the world that the character (and the player) feels. 

[Veruin]

Maddok900 wrote...

I'm not trolling and I know who David Gaider is by name, haven't read his posts often.

That's not the David everyone is talking about.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Maddok900 wrote...

Veruin wrote...
Either you're trolling or you don't know who David is.

I'm not trolling and I know who David Gaider is by name, haven't read his posts often.

Oh, you poor chap, you have no idea who we're talking about... 

Well, give it a few hours. You'll find out soon enough.

[Zerker]

Veruin wrote...

That's not the David everyone is talking about.

There was a David guy on the Mass Effect forums, arguing against class interrupts and other innovative stuff, I guess you mean him then. Otherwise no idea.

Oh wait, ****. David 7204?

Hell no. Just no. NO.

Modifié par Maddok900, 22 décembre 2013 - 09:30 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Heroism. BSN has tainted that word tbh.

[CroGamer002]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Let the idiot be the hero. Let him suffer and get hit and maimed and killed. I'll be the guy who prefers going home at the end of the day with my five medals; One head, two arms, and two legs.

I'm taking your torso, though.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Maddok900 wrote...

Veruin wrote...

That's not the David everyone is talking about.

There was a David guy on the Mass Effect forums, arguing against class interrupts and other innovative stuff, I guess you mean him then. Otherwise no idea.

Oh wait, ****. David 7204?

Hell no. Just no. NO.

Is there any other?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

Heroism. BSN has tainted that word tbh.

I'd say that heroism has become meaningless.

[Zerker]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Is there any other?

We should ward this place.

Modifié par Maddok900, 22 décembre 2013 - 09:39 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Mesina2 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Let the idiot be the hero. Let him suffer and get hit and maimed and killed. I'll be the guy who prefers going home at the end of the day with my five medals; One head, two arms, and two legs.

I'm taking your torso, though.

Nah, I got my Interceptor on.

[CroGamer002]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

Heroism. BSN has tainted that word tbh.

I'd say that heroism has become meaningless.

Someone should correct that.


Heroic stories are popular ever since first humans started to tell stories, for a very good reason.

[ruggly]

Maddok900 wrote...

Veruin wrote...

That's not the David everyone is talking about.

There was a David guy on the Mass Effect forums, arguing against class interrupts and other innovative stuff, I guess you mean him then. Otherwise no idea.

Oh wait, ****. David 7204?

Hell no. Just no. NO.

What do you mean, it will be fun!

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Mesina2 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

Heroism. BSN has tainted that word tbh.

I'd say that heroism has become meaningless.

Someone should correct that.


Heroic stories are popular ever since first humans started to tell stories, for a very good reason.

I think the joke went over your head boss.