655 réponses à ce sujet

[Potato Cat]

Have you even considered it wasn't the ashes? That it was the Maker? Some spirit? The lyrium that is believed to have actually given the ashes healing properties?

[Veruin]

Qistina wrote...

duel or not duel, the city burned

Your point being?  Not every choice must lead to some world shattering event. 

Help any of them get the same result in the end

See above.  But you also get more dialogue with that person and can learn more about them.  That doesn't matter to you it seems.  Whether or not Orsino becomes a Harvester is about the only thing I can remember that who you sided with would have changed.

The quest is a must because to justify the rebels Templar-Mage that Hawke work for Meredith...they will attack Hawke no matter what

I recall the mages being just as quick to attack Hawke as well.

If the Mage Warden suddenly feel "it is no use, **** all, i am done with this crazy job of killing Archdemon...i am leaving"...there will be no Kirkwall because being consumed by the Blight

That is not a choice offered in Origins, so how do you expect Bioware to accomdate your head canon?  I head canoned one of my Warden's as a son of Loghain's, doesn't mean that will ever be reflected in game.

Darth Brotarian wrote...

That detracts from anything posted above how exactly? Lyrium let the urn be magically supercharged and allowed the spirits to stay this side of the fade. Ohhh, it totally stops them from exsisting now! I don't seem to recall a "destroy the lyrium in the mountain" choice in origins.

If anything, I was trying to support the poster.  Obviously, that's not how it was received.

Modifié par Veruin, 23 décembre 2013 - 07:20 .

[Steelcan]

Here's hoping we can finally kill that damned orlesian bard for good

Modifié par Steelcan, 23 décembre 2013 - 07:20 .

[Veruin]

Derp.

Modifié par Veruin, 23 décembre 2013 - 07:20 .

[Iakus]

Steelcan wrote...
Im fully expecting a quick "rumors of my death...blah" then no more mention of it

Like I said, another Lazarus Project

As to that line, we already had it in DA2, and it clearly didn't go over so well.  I'm willing to wait and see if something else comes along to explain things better.  something more than "Her helmet kept the brain intact"

Though this particular case doesn't bug me much, as I never "killed" Leliana.  I'm just glad the bug that killed everyone at the Vigil will be circumvented by the Keep

[Guns]

Elfman wrote...

Have you even considered it wasn't the ashes? That it was the Maker? Some spirit? The lyrium that is believed to have actually given the ashes healing properties?

Then why didn't the lyrium affect Wynne, an actual mage? Why didn't some spirit save Wynne, someone who was actually protected with a fade spirit? Why didn't the Maker save Wynne, doesn't he love all of his devoute children?

Modifié par Guns, 23 décembre 2013 - 07:23 .

[FireAndBlood]

Guns wrote...



In which case there was a cutscene immediatly after to show that he did not die. Not a two year period where they said she wad dead in that option, but then decided to bring her back regardless of your decision because they are incompetent writers.

So you are only objecting to the fact that it took two years to reveal she did not die.

[Gwydden]

Guns wrote...

With all due respect (I'm really sorry, but I'm tired today, and not in the mood to turn tactful mode on), you are aware that's the whole point of this thread? That Bioware said our choices would matter and we are given the option to import them only for them to be ignored 

I mean no offense, honestly. Sorry for that. It's just I don't get people who seem so upset about the same issue and don't seem willing to let it go, years after both DAO and DA2 have been released.

Guns wrote...

Gwydden wrote...
And how is that particular choice so important that it merits such an uproar?

Well if you recall...

Gwydden wrote...
She happens to be important for DAI plot.

But why is it so important to you?

Modifié par Gwydden, 23 décembre 2013 - 07:24 .

[Guns]

FireAndBlood wrote...

Guns wrote...



In which case there was a cutscene immediatly after to show that he did not die. Not a two year period where they said she wad dead in that option, but then decided to bring her back regardless of your decision because they are incompetent writers.

So you are only objecting to the fact that it took two years to reveal she did not die.

Yes, and that there was no inclination that she was not dead. It was obvious she was suppose to be dead in that option and that when the next game came out they decided to throw in a useless cameo that disregarded said choice. 

If there was a cutscene right afterwards or when you left the temple it panned down to her body and it was glowing or glittering or SOMETHING to signify she wasn't dead. Or at the very least have her explain what happened in Dragon Age 2.

Imagine in The Two Towers if Gandalf just suddenly came back and didn't explain.

Aragorn: "But y-you... you fell?!"
Gandalf: "Yeah, well I'm back now. Leggo nubs!"

[FireAndBlood]

Gwydden wrote...

Guns wrote...

With all due respect (I'm really sorry, but I'm tired today, and not in the mood to turn tactful mode on), you are aware that's the whole point of this thread? That Bioware said our choices would matter and we are given the option to import them only for them to be ignored 

I mean no offense, honestly. Sorry for that. It's just I don't get people who seem so upset about the same issue and don't seem willing to let it go, years after both DAO and DA2 have been released.

Took me week  to get over the ME3 ending, some people are still pissed!

[FireAndBlood]

Guns wrote...

FireAndBlood wrote...

Guns wrote...



In which case there was a cutscene immediatly after to show that he did not die. Not a two year period where they said she wad dead in that option, but then decided to bring her back regardless of your decision because they are incompetent writers.

So you are only objecting to the fact that it took two years to reveal she did not die.

Yes, and that there was no inclination that she was not dead. It was obvious she was suppose to be dead in that option and that when the next game came out they decided to throw in a useless cameo that disregarded said choice. 

If there was a cutscene right afterwards or when you left the temple it panned down to her body and it was glowing or glittering or SOMETHING to signify she wasn't dead. Or at the very least have her explain what happened in Dragon Age 2.

Imagine in The Two Towers if Gandalf just suddenly came back and didn't explain.

Aragorn: "But y-you... you fell?!"
Gandalf: "Yeah, well I'm back now. Leggo nubs!"

Leliana appeared for a few seconds in the final scene of DA2, it would not have been appropriate to have her explain what happened at the time.

[Guns]

Gwydden wrote...

Guns wrote...

With all due respect (I'm really sorry, but I'm tired today, and not in the mood to turn tactful mode on), you are aware that's the whole point of this thread? That Bioware said our choices would matter and we are given the option to import them only for them to be ignored 

I mean no offense, honestly. Sorry for that. It's just I don't get people who seem so upset about the same issue and don't seem willing to let it go, years after both DAO and DA2 have been released.

Because we still care about this universe and hope that Bioware can still make it right, although personally if Dragon Age 3 is as bad as 2 I'll probably be done with Bioware. 

Gwydden wrote...

Guns wrote...

Gwydden wrote...
And how is that particular choice so important that it merits such an uproar?

Well if you recall...

Gwydden wrote...
She happens to be important for DAI plot.

But why is it so important to you?

Because retconning is bad storytelling and ruins the integrity of the universe. Not to mention Bioware blatantly lied about choices mattering and being able to transfer them over.

If you mean more specifically Leliana, it doesn't. I don't think I have any serious playthroughs that kill her. 

FireAndBlood wrote...

Leliana appeared for a few seconds in the final scene of DA2, it would not have been appropriate to have her explain what happened at the time.

In which case her cameo was useless, unnecessary, and didn't make sense. Especially since that would be easy to code that to not appear in playthroughs where she was killed.

Modifié par Guns, 23 décembre 2013 - 07:35 .

[Star fury]

Steelcan wrote...

DA, Leliana died, nope, Sten was left in a cage, nope, Anders died, nada, pick a boon, that will be retconned away, told Cullen about Anders, zip

No, you have one and only one example of retconning in DA series. It is the exception that proves the rule. Other examples are ambigious and are not retcons.

ME discussion belong to ME board, if you want to talk about it, you can make a thread there.

[Vandicus]

Guns wrote...


In which case there was a cutscene immediatly after to show that he did not die. Not a two year period where they said she wad dead in that option, but then decided to bring her back regardless of your decision because they are incompetent writers.

If we accept your line of logic that Zevran, Howe, and Leliana are all capable of faking decapitation, why would their be a cutscene visible to the player/Warden where Leliana reveals that she's still alive? Logically, Leliana would wait until the Warden left before reattaching her head, unlike Zevran and Howe.

A bard faking their own death isn't exactly a shocker in the first place. Furthermore, assuming she actually does have visions from the Maker, there are a multitude of explanations for how she could have survived had she not faked her own death. Assuming that those visions were a lie, and that Leliana was misleading the Warden the whole team, reinforces the idea that she would be prepared to fake her death in the case her deceptions were discovered.

[Hazegurl]

ignoreality wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

That type of stupidity would work if Leliana was the end all be all of every event that happened in the story. She isn't. Try again.

She is required for the story that DA:I tells. Apparently some people can't get over that fact. I don't see any other way of resolving the situation than them actually not playing the game.

It's been four years since the launch of Origins. Bioware made some mistakes allowing crucial characters to be killed. Hopefully they learned from those mistakes; we'll find out in later games. It's done. Deal with it.

Was she required for DA2? Was she always intended to be important for DAI or is she now so important because she was brought back? I think that is the problem. The fact remains is that anyone else could have played Leliana's role in DA2 and then follow it up in DAI. The writers didn't even know DAI would even exist back when they made Origins. Personally, Leliana isn't my problem, she's alive in my playthrough. But let's stop pretending that she is/was some unique and crucial game stopping character. She was brought back in DA2 because Origin characters were getting cameos and the devs forgot she could have been killed in some playthroughs.  

geez, I wonder why no one is reacting the same way to Flemeth's appearance in DA2. Perhaps because it makes total sense for her to be alive even if the Warden defeats her? Maybe because the writers actually took the time to give us a plausible reason for her survival (the amulet).  Or are we now suppose to believe Ohgren, Anders, and Leilana are more powerful than her.

[Steelcan]

Star fury wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

DA, Leliana died, nope, Sten was left in a cage, nope, Anders died, nada, pick a boon, that will be retconned away, told Cullen about Anders, zip

No, you have one and only one example of retconning in DA series. It is the exception that proves the rule. Other examples are ambigious and are not retcons.

ME discussion belong to ME board, if you want to talk about it, you can make a thread there.

.  Please explain to me how Dten being left in a locked cage to die, but still becoming Arushok isbt a retco.?  Or how giving the Circle its freedom only to have it not granted, thats a retcon as well.

[Afro_Explosion]

Steelcan wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

DA, Leliana died, nope, Sten was left in a cage, nope, Anders died, nada, pick a boon, that will be retconned away, told Cullen about Anders, zip

No, you have one and only one example of retconning in DA series. It is the exception that proves the rule. Other examples are ambigious and are not retcons.

ME discussion belong to ME board, if you want to talk about it, you can make a thread there.

.  Please explain to me how Dten being left in a locked cage to die, but still becoming Arushok isbt a retco.?  Or how giving the Circle its freedom only to have it not granted, thats a retcon as well.

Sten was left in by the warden, that doesn't mean he dies, and the chantry refused to grant the circles their freedom NOT RETCON.

Modifié par mx_keep13, 23 décembre 2013 - 07:38 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Guns wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

@Guns

You didn't have an option to kill her. You had an option to try to kill her. The consequence of that action was never shown during DAO.

Storytelling 101: don't let what the audience wants get in the way of a good story.

She's dead. I saw the option and I saw the consequence. I literally had the option to seperate her head from her neck. She literally had no blood running to her brain anymore. Her heart literally stopped pumping blood through her body. Her conscience literally ceased to exist. She literally died... literally.

Storytelling 101: bringing back a character who was obviously killed because you don't have the ability to make a new interesting character is not a good story, and proves you are a bad writer... literally.

Darth Vader is a horrible character, george lucas was a fool to retcon luke's father as being alive. Story telling 101 guys! Dead characters stay dead, they don't get revealed as alive later!

Just like aragon was retconed to survive falling off the cliff in two towers, and gandulf was retconed to survive his fall. Trash, the whole lot of them!

[Guns]

Vandicus wrote...

Guns wrote...


In which case there was a cutscene immediatly after to show that he did not die. Not a two year period where they said she wad dead in that option, but then decided to bring her back regardless of your decision because they are incompetent writers.

If we accept your line of logic that Zevran, Howe, and Leliana are all capable of faking decapitation, why would their be a cutscene visible to the player/Warden where Leliana reveals that she's still alive? Logically, Leliana would wait until the Warden left before reattaching her head, unlike Zevran and Howe.

A bard faking their own death isn't exactly a shocker in the first place. Furthermore, assuming she actually does have visions from the Maker, there are a multitude of explanations for how she could have survived had she not faked her own death. Assuming that those visions were a lie, and that Leliana was misleading the Warden the whole team, reinforces the idea that she would be prepared to fake her death in the case her deceptions were discovered.

Both Zevran and Howe have cutscenes immediately after that show their deaths so they couldn't fake it. I don't care if they explain it eventually that Leliana is a chosen prophet who pulls a Jesus and returns from the dead. They still originally planned for her to be dead in that option and retconned it, so I will not accept it. I will either mod her out or stop playing Dragon Age, and probably Bioware games in general.

[Gwydden]

Guns wrote...

Yes, and that there was no inclination that she was not dead. It was obvious she was suppose to be dead in that option and that when the next game came out they decided to throw in a useless cameo that disregarded said choice. 

If there was a cutscene right afterwards or when you left the temple it panned down to her body and it was glowing or glittering or SOMETHING to signify she wasn't dead. Or at the very least have her explain what happened in Dragon Age 2.

Imagine in The Two Towers if Gandalf just suddenly came back and didn't explain.

Aragorn: "But y-you... you fell?!"
Gandalf: "Yeah, well I'm back now. Leggo nubs!"

So are you annoyed because they took their time informing you of the outcome (an outcome the Warden had no business knowing so fast, and therefore neither had you, I might say) or because they didn't explain it right away? Or is it both?

I remember this one ME playthrough where I left Balak to die in Bring Down the Sky. He still tried to kill me in ME3. I didn't know if it was a bug (or now that I think about it, me mixing up playthroughs) but I just assumed he somehow had managed to survive and escape and I was okay with it.

After I shot him who knows how many times.

After I left him grievously wounded in an asteroid with all his mooks dead.

Even if Shepard and company where right next to him as he bled to death.

Even if I hadn't been provided any explanation.

Because Shepard had no way to know he had survived or how, until Balak pointed a gun at his face. Why sould I? All we could both do was be shocked.

[Veruin]

Steelcan wrote...
Please explain to me how Dten being left in a locked cage to die, but still becoming Arushok isbt a retco.?  Or how giving the Circle its freedom only to have it not granted, thats a retcon as well.

Isn't Sten the Arishok in Gaider's personal storyline?  Much like how Alistair is king of Fereldan?  Or did they make that official?
As for the circle, I don't see how that's a retcon when Gaider said that Alistair/Anora did ask about it, but the Chantry basically said no.  I don't see how it's a retcon if a choice didn't turn out the way you thought it would.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Steelcan wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

DA, Leliana died, nope, Sten was left in a cage, nope, Anders died, nada, pick a boon, that will be retconned away, told Cullen about Anders, zip

No, you have one and only one example of retconning in DA series. It is the exception that proves the rule. Other examples are ambigious and are not retcons.

ME discussion belong to ME board, if you want to talk about it, you can make a thread there.

.  Please explain to me how Dten being left in a locked cage to die, but still becoming Arushok isbt a retco.?  Or how giving the Circle its freedom only to have it not granted, thats a retcon as well.

Well....

1.. Sten isn't the arishock if he died or if the original arishock was allowed to live. That was confirmed by gaider I believe.

2. Fereldan doesn't mean the whole of thedas, and just because one country decides that the circle in it's boarders should be free doesn't mean the main chantry in orlais or every other circle won't look at go "No." 

The last circle who did that had to weather an exalted march, so folding in the face of external pressure isn't exactly out of the realm of reason.

[Steelcan]

IIRC, the epilogue mentions that the circle got its freedom, therefore it being changed to "Chantry said no" is in fact a retcon.

And I'd also say leaving a character for certain death, without his sword, yet he becomes Arishok regardless of the choices made is also a retcon because it ignores the player's choice and establishes a canon path

[Afro_Explosion]

Guns wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

Guns wrote...


In which case there was a cutscene immediatly after to show that he did not die. Not a two year period where they said she wad dead in that option, but then decided to bring her back regardless of your decision because they are incompetent writers.

If we accept your line of logic that Zevran, Howe, and Leliana are all capable of faking decapitation, why would their be a cutscene visible to the player/Warden where Leliana reveals that she's still alive? Logically, Leliana would wait until the Warden left before reattaching her head, unlike Zevran and Howe.

A bard faking their own death isn't exactly a shocker in the first place. Furthermore, assuming she actually does have visions from the Maker, there are a multitude of explanations for how she could have survived had she not faked her own death. Assuming that those visions were a lie, and that Leliana was misleading the Warden the whole team, reinforces the idea that she would be prepared to fake her death in the case her deceptions were discovered.

Both Zevran and Howe have cutscenes immediately after that show their deaths so they couldn't fake it. I don't care if they explain it eventually that Leliana is a chosen prophet who pulls a Jesus and returns from the dead. They still originally planned for her to be dead in that option and retconned it, so I will not accept it. I will either mod her out or stop playing Dragon Age, and probably Bioware games in general.

You are petty thats all I can say.